Back again with water issues

[Sandy Clay]

I don't remember if some of you remember , but, I had several issues when keeping Discus. So, I sold them and now have Blood Parrots and a few Rams, some Black Neon Tetras and Rosy Barbs. Well, I just got the Rams a couple weeks ago. All was well. Two nights ago I did a huge water change (80%) and cleaned the aquarium good. Wiped down the glass, cleaned the algae off the caves and washed the sponge filter (AquaClear HOB) in the water I pumped out of the tank. Last night I noticed one of the Rams acting strange. (Can't be sure if it had an issue when I bought it though) Breathing heavy and not swimming just right. Seemed a little swollen also. So....I did a water check. The nitrates were 60 or so. I did a 25% water change. They did not change. So I checked the nitrates coming from the tap. They were 40ish. Maybe this explains why I was having such an issue with Discus. Well the little Ram died. I added an extra dose of Prime, since it says it detoxifies Nitrate. Still measured high in the test kit though. Any ideas here guys? Is there anything I can add that will help with removing nitrates right from the tap? Oh, I am also having a hole in the head issue with one of the Parrots. So, I was treating with Metro. I am just at a loss as to what is going on with this aquarium. Bare bottom, Jave ferns attached to cave and driftwood. But only 5 or so. So not heavily planted. Is the water changes causing this problem. I could never seem to get my Discus healthy either. I also run Purigen and a UV sterilizer. What the heck???

[Sandy Clay]

I was just reading some things about nitrates and an idea popped into my head...I have those ceramic like orbs in a mesh bag in my HOB filer...could those be a problem? Been in there since I set the aquarium up a year and a half ago. I have changed the sponge, but, never those thing. I just rinse them in water occasionally.

[judijetson]

I think the problem is the nitrates from your tap. It's not an issue I have ever had to deal with personally but I believe this is why some people use RO water.

Hopefully someone with the same issue will advise.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3

[pcsb23]

Hi Sandy,

Sorry can't offer any advice unless it is for discus ... ok just kidding :evilgrin:

tbh I'm not much of a fan for blood parrots but I do like rams ...

Going by what you have said it does sound as though it could be water related. Needless to say I have a few questions ...
What is the source of the water (well/municipal etc)
Does it pass through a whole house type filter at all?
When you dechlorinate it do you just use prime?
Do you store, preheat and age the water? If so can you describe how?

40 ppm NO3 from the tap seems quite high, but in the UK would still be within allowed parameters, so guess it will be similar in the USA. So doing water changes will not really bring this down. Nitrates in and of themselves are not the killer as such, but long term exposure to high NO3 levels does cause stress.

As for the ceramic rings, I doubt they will be causing any issues at all, they are an excellent media for the filter bacteria to grow on so I'd leave well alone :)

[Sandy Clay]

Hi Paul, Yep it's me again ;) Ok , city water, no filter , use Prime and no aging or preheating. Sorry, about the Blood Parrots ,but, they have such personalities :) Would using extra Prime, Purigen or buying some of these things that say they remove Nitrates help? I am not sure about the Rams, if they could have had something prior to buying them that killed the one. One of the others is acting strange too. I have a Bolivian Ram , 13 Black Neon Tetras, 7 Rosy Barbs and the 5 Blood Parrots (3 in or so) in a 75 gallon. Is that overstocked? I just added the 3 Rams 2 weeks ago. The Bolivian Ram, Tetras and Barbs have been doing great. The Parrots are doing ok, the one has HITH so I treated with Metro for a week. Soaked Blood worms in it and then added to the tank. I know Rams can be sensitive to water , so , maybe the nitrates got to him. I am using an API test kit. I cannot test for ammonia, since I use Prime. I do have an ammonia alert on the front of the aquarium, it has never changed.

[pcsb23]

Stocking levels are fine as far as I'm concerned.

Rams can be sensitive little souls, so it is possible that they got or are getting stressed, whether that is the water or the tankmates I'm not 100% sure. I'd not keep rosy barbs and rams in the same tank for example as barbs can be a little "nippy".

As for purigen and other such adsorptive resins, the short is answer is yes and no. Yes they will adsorb nitrates, but no they will not adsorb enough and you will be continually re-charging them imo. Purigen is a little different in that it adsorbs other stuff too, but it is still a pita as it needs replacing/re-charging quite regularly on decently stocked tanks.

If your water is suspect the best solution ime is to use an RO machine. Despite what most other people think, using RO with either commercially available salts or home made salts will produce the highest quality water. It is why reef enthusiasts who grow difficult corals only use RO water and most will add a DI pod to that too.

[Sandy Clay]

Thanks for the info Paul. Cherry Barbs I have, sorry not Rosy Barbs. The Cherry Barbs are the only Barbs that are not nippers. They are such sweet little fish but they do not school. The Black Neons do and look very nice.

[pcsb23]

Black neons are one of the most underestimated fish going imo, really like them.

[Sandy Clay]

Well the second Ram died. The other one seems fine. Eating , swimming around etc... Maybe they had a problem I wasn't aware of. The Parrots were out acting like nothing is wrong...do you think the nitrates are not enough to bother them? I have a new uv sterilizer coming. Geez , cost as much to replace the bulb as it's worth. Just ordered a whole new one. Do you all use the API test kits? Mine says it expires in 2017 so I think it is test correctly.

[pcsb23]

Keep an eye on the rest of the fish. I don't get too stressed about nitrates, and I don't trust or believe any hobby nitrate test kit either. tbh these days I don't test my water ever! The only thing I measure is the conductivity and pH of my change water and when asked my tank(s). I suspect that my test kits will be well out of date, that is if I could find them.

If an RO is out of the equation for now, just keep changing water with tap water - obviously make sure it is dechlorinated. See how the fish handle it, if they don't show signs of stress then you are good to go.

[Sandy Clay]

Thanks Paul. I will keep an eye on things. I'm thinking that maybe the Rams had an issue from the beginning. Everyone else is doing good.

[foggy01.1983]

Stocking levels are fine as far as I'm concerned.

Rams can be sensitive little souls, so it is possible that they got or are getting stressed, whether that is the water or the tankmates I'm not 100% sure. I'd not keep rosy barbs and rams in the same tank for example as barbs can be a little "nippy".

As for purigen and other such adsorptive resins, the short is answer is yes and no. Yes they will adsorb nitrates, but no they will not adsorb enough and you will be continually re-charging them imo. Purigen is a little different in that it adsorbs other stuff too, but it is still a pita as it needs replacing/re-charging quite regularly on decently stocked tanks.

If your water is suspect the best solution ime is to use an RO machine. Despite what most other people think, using RO with either commercially available salts or home made salts will produce the highest quality water. It is why reef enthusiasts who grow difficult corals only use RO water and most will add a DI pod to that too.

purigen does not remove nitrates or any of the byproducts of the nitrogen cycle.

It absorbs a certain amount of organic waste before it gets broken down to finally nitrates. This means that your nitrates wwon't increase as fast, but if you already have nitrates in your tank or tap water it will not remove them.

Jbl make two products one called nitratex which removes Nitrate and needs to be regenerated with a salt solution.

They also make bionitratex which i use in my discus tank. It's several bags you put into your filter and after about 3 Weeks bacteria builds up and effectively removes nitrates biologically. It needs replacing once a year though.

The bionitratex once established after 4 to 5 weeks reduced my nitrates from 40-50 to 5-10.

[pcsb23]

purigen does not remove nitrates or any of the byproducts of the nitrogen cycle.

It absorbs a certain amount of organic waste before it gets broken down to finally nitrates. This means that your nitrates wwon't increase as fast, but if you already have nitrates in your tank or tap water it will not remove them.

Jbl make two products one called nitratex which removes Nitrate and needs to be regenerated with a salt solution.

They also make bionitratex which i use in my discus tank. It's several bags you put into your filter and after about 3 Weeks bacteria builds up and effectively removes nitrates biologically. It needs replacing once a year though.

The bionitratex once established after 4 to 5 weeks reduced my nitrates from 40-50 to 5-10.useful to know Steve - I'm guessing the biontratex is a mini anaerobic filter ...

[foggy01.1983]

Well the second Ram died. The other one seems fine. Eating , swimming around etc... Maybe they had a problem I wasn't aware of. The Parrots were out acting like nothing is wrong...do you think the nitrates are not enough to bother them? I have a new uv sterilizer coming. Geez , cost as much to replace the bulb as it's worth. Just ordered a whole new one. Do you all use the API test kits? Mine says it expires in 2017 so I think it is test correctly.
Rams especially the Germans can be hard to keep. Generally nitrates are tolerated by easier fish, but some sensitive fish like discus and german Blue rams prefer better water.

I keep discus and german rams together and find using a ro unit is the easiest way for keeping the water top quality.

I also use purigen and jbl bionitratex. Both great things in my opinion.

Nowadays ro is a cheap unit to buy and the cost of water is cheaper than buying salt for a marine aquarium.

I try and use the waste ro water to fill my swimming pool or water the garden.

Good luck with things and don't let it put you off. There are plenty of nice Hardy fish and if your tap water is that bad getting a ro unit or if needed just a hma filter may help keep the more harder fish.

[foggy01.1983]

useful to know Steve - I'm guessing the biontratex is a mini anaerobic filter ...

I was sceptical about it to begin with but after reading about it on several forums i thought I'd give it ago.

It appears to be basically some bio balls in a very very fine mesh bag. It also has some sort of food in it to keep the bacteria thriving. This is why it needs replacing once a year as what ever the nutrient is, or eventually runs out.

I did try the nitratex which needed regenerating buti didn't think much of it personally. Probably because I'm lazy and couldn't be bothered to regenerate it.
The only downside to the bionitratex is it does take 3 to 4 weeks before your nitrates come down as the bacteria has to build up in the bag.

I also don't know how rapidly it would remove nitrates. For example if it was established in your tank and had 10 nitrates. If you then added tap water with 40 nitrates i don't know how long it would take to lower it back to 10.

Luckily for me i use ro so I'm adding 0 nitrates so all the bionitraex has to deal with is the load from the waste in the aquarium.

Steve :)

[foggy01.1983]

But yes it is basically a anaerobic filter in small bags that you either place in a canister filter or in any kind of water flow. I think the mesh is so fine it either allows only a small amount of water through or stops oxygen passing through.

[Sandy Clay]

Thanks Foggy! I will look into this for sure.

[Sandy Clay]

Ok, where do you buy this?

[foggy01.1983]

Ok, where do you buy this?

I'm from the uk so I'm not sure where you can get it from.

The best thing is to go to google and type in jbl bionitratex for sale. Either that or ebay should have it available on there.

As i say they do two products one called nitratex and one bionitratex.

The nitratex you have to regenerate using salt, i tried this but it didn't regenerate for me. Perhaps i used the wrong salt, but it did work well until it needed regenerating.

The bionitratex you just leave in your filter but takes about 4 weeks for the bacteria to grow and to notice your nitrates drop.

If it was me I'd go for for the bionitratex and hope when you do water changes it reduces the nitrates fairly quickly.

Atb Steve

[foggy01.1983]

I don't know if this is any use but to filter your tap water perhaps this may be of use?
http:// http://www.pozzani.co.uk/water-filters-185/product_info.html
I've never used it but it may be worth looking at.

This is the like to jbl bionitratex
http:// http://www.jbl.de/en/aquatics-freshwater-products/detail/2428/jbl-bionitrat-ex

This is a massive thread regarding people's views of using it.

It is certainly a huge read. First of you will notice people are sceptical about it but after people start using it they only get positive results.
http:// http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?t=404709

[Sandy Clay]

I can't find anything here in the States. Not sure what shipping from the UK would be.

[judijetson]

Here's an eBay link, you can check out what the shipping would be.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/331285931618?nav=SEARCH

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3

[musicmarn1]

Black neons are one of the most underestimated fish going imo, really like them.

they never looked like much to me in the lfs BUT then i saw them under the right lights in a good tank - WOW very nice, but my husband had been telling me this all along and ill be sure to show him your comment, he will smile ;)