New Discus Keeper

[iantouch]

Hi everyone!
This is my first time here in SD.. and this is also my first time to keep discus fish.
I have been in the fish keeping hobby since I was 10 years old may be.. :)
Currently I keep 6 discus, 1 blue diamond, 1 snakeskin, 4 reds(oranges?) I'm not sure.

Tank set up:
Bare-bottom
120L (according to the seller)
OH Filtration
With 2 plants (Anubias Nana Petite, Java Fern)

Tankmates:
8 neon tetras

I started with 4 reds in a very small aquarium, I didn't have a choice since it was just given as a gift.
I noticed that they were very skittish, when I turn on the lights or whenever I enter the room they go darting around the tank and bumping the glass.
They were a nervous wreck. So I thought adding some more might help change the behavior but unfortunately it just the same.

Last 25th I bought a bigger tank and I hope there will be some changes in their behavior.
So far, they are still the same nervous dudes hiding at the back of the filter head.
I've added some tankmates too.

Any suggestions from you guys as to improve their behavior? :confused:

Thank you!

[rdiscus]

Welcome to Simply Discus !

[iantouch]

Thank you! :grin:

I don't know if i can post pictures already or after I've post some few threads..

[JunUB]

Same here man I got the same problem. When I purchased mine from my LFS they were so chill and mellow. They didn't even have any hiding spots, etc. I bought then under the small assorted discus label. Till this day, I don't even know what strain they are. Anyways like I said. They were chill at the per store but at home they're all skittish, they seemed to mellow down but still a little timid. I really don't know what's the cause? They aren't stressed or malnourished or anything.

[iantouch]

These discus i bought are the same, at the lfs they were just swimming around nicely not minding the people looking at them.
I don't know what to do, I mean all my other fishes didn't show this kind of behavior.
I really hope people here can give us some advice. :)

[Larry Bugg]

Welcome to Simply.

First things first. You tank is way too small for discus. What size are the discus? What is your feeding and water change routine?

[iantouch]

Thanks..
My discus are about 1.5in to 2in and the blue one is i think aroun 3.5in..
I do water changes 30% daily and i feed them with seafood mix 3-4 times a day..
I don't know if the tank size given to me was accurate. I will check again later after work. :)

[Larry Bugg]

At 1 1/2 to 2" you guys aren't suffering in this tank size but it won't be a good size for them much longer. You really need to consider another tank. You need to up your water changes to at least 50% daily. What are the dimensions of the tank? We can figure out the size it really is.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Iantouch and welcome to Simply. On your tank is the bottom painted or covered with paper on the outside? If not discus are spooky when they can see thru the bottom of the tank into nothing.
Pat

[iantouch]

I think it's with black lining under. It's a premade tank with stand and all,a sunsun product. I'll post pictures soon so you guys can see.
I think these guys are on the "what not to buy" list though. :)

[ericNH]

I think these guys are on the "what not to buy" list though. :)

That's alright. It's what you have now, and plenty of people here started out with iffy discus. Myself included. You're looking for people to help guide you down the path to healthy discus. You came to the right place.

[musicmarn1]

Do you age the water? Is the tank cycled? And is the overhang filter that little blue carbon pad?

We need a sponge filter in there ideally and aged water (see beginners section) at the same constant temp, as previously suggested 50% daily :) welcome and good luck !! Can we see pictures or a video? Got an air stone in there?

I have a picture here somewhere I'll post of my latest batch of 6 X 2 inch juvies in a 29gallon, light in color not dark eating like pigs and not remotely skittish but I do TWO water changes a day of 40% or sometimes one 70% change I feed 3 times a day and age my water no pH swing which om wondering if u have

[discuspaul]

Welcome to SD.
Larry's advice is right on. If your tank size is in fact 120L, you'll need to place your discus into a larger tank quite soon.
Meantime though, if it makes you feel any better, it does take discus of any size some time to get settled in to new surroundings, and become fully comfortable with their new home and a different routine around them. It can take up to a week or two, sometimes longer, for their skittishness and stress to lessen & disappear. Be patient and give them a little more time.

[doublediscusjack]

IanTouch: "I noticed that they were very skittish, when I turn on the lights or whenever I enter the room they go darting around the tank and bumping the glass.
They were a nervous wreck. So I thought adding some more might help change the behavior but unfortunately it just the same."
_____________________
By nature, discus don't like bright light, don't like quick motions around their tank, don't like people heavy traffic; anything that can spook them. They, by nature, prefer placid waters, dim lights, nothing to spook them. However, in time, they can become accustomed to people around them, but they will never like quick motions of hands or people around them, spooking them. It is part of their defense mechanism, to dash whenever danger seems to threaten them, for not doing so generally ends their life by predators, in nature. Even if tank raised, some of these inborn characteristics exist, but can be slowly diminished, through their learning from thoughtful owners gently; slowly raising them.

[iantouch]

Thanks for all the inputs.. I hope they get used to the lights and movements and all. It's kinda frustrating when you see them all huddled up in one corner all day long.
The tank is 28 gallons (12x30x18), no carbon is used in the filter, water is aged and cycled.

Here the photos..
The tank:
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/tatchme/20140926_135049_zps5e330fa9.jpg

The discus:
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/tatchme/20140927_233228_zpsaef29027.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/tatchme/20140927_233257_zpsa971cb0b.jpg

The tankmates:
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/tatchme/20140927_233311_zps103bf51a.jpg

Please ID also my discus.. Thanks!

[iantouch]

Hi guys!
I've posted some pictures earlier but dunno what happened they didn't appear..
Anyways, one quick question is it ok that my water temperature fluctuates from 27-31 degrees?
If I'm at home the temp is around 27 as the ac is on but when I'm at work it shoots up to 31.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi guys!
I've posted some pictures earlier but dunno what happened they didn't appear..
Anyways, one quick question is it ok that my water temperature fluctuates from 27-31 degrees?
If I'm at home the temp is around 27 as the ac is on but when I'm at work it shoots up to 31.

You can see your pictures now. I approved them for you. I would consider the temperature fluctuation a stress factor so would suggest a different/new heater. You want to aim for a steady 28C. If the fish come out when the light is off try dimming the light.

[doublediscusjack]

Hi guys!
I've posted some pictures earlier but dunno what happened they didn't appear..
Anyways, one quick question is it ok that my water temperature fluctuates from 27-31 degrees?
If I'm at home the temp is around 27 as the ac is on but when I'm at work it shoots up to 31.\
_______________________________
A water temperature fluctuation of 80.5 to 87.8 deg. F. per day is way too much fluctuation, and 80.5 is way too cold for them---frankly, in looking at them, and at your problem, they even look to me like they are too cold. My opinion, if these temp. are continued long enough, they will sicken. For those discus, a constant temp. of 86 degrees is best, by far. My experience has shown that young discus do best at 86 deg. F. while adults do best at 84 deg. F.

[Larry Bugg]

82 degrees is ideal for all discus, juvies and adults. Absoutely no need for a higher temp. But it does need to be constant.

[iantouch]

You can see your pictures now. I approved them for you. I would consider the temperature fluctuation a stress factor so would suggest a different/new heater. You want to aim for a steady 28C. If the fish come out when the light is off try dimming the light.

Thank you sir! :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Thank you sir! :)

A thank you madam would be more appropriate ;)

[iantouch]

\
_______________________________
A water temperature fluctuation of 80.5 to 87.8 deg. F. per day is way too much fluctuation, and 80.5 is way too cold for them---frankly, in looking at them, and at your problem, they even look to me like they are too cold. My opinion, if these temp. are continued long enough, they will sicken. For those discus, a constant temp. of 86 degrees is best, by far. My experience has shown that young discus do best at 86 deg. F. while adults do best at 84 deg. F.


82 degrees is ideal for all discus, juvies and adults. Absoutely no need for a higher temp. But it does need to be constant.

I am located in UAE that's why my water temperature tends to shoot up. I've tried looking for a chiller but it's not available and quite costly too..
It's the end of the hot season here so I'm expecting the temperature to go down in the coming months.
I'll save up for that chiller during the cold season here. :)

[OC Discus]

It is possible by mixing other species of fish with the discus without quarantine you will have some kind of disease and/or parasites in the tank. Look for signs of white spot on any of the fish. Treating discus for ick at 1/2 dose to save the tetras can allow a resistant strain to develop that keeps coming back. If they develop ick, they will need to be treated at full dose to eliminate the disease. The tetras might not survive the treatment.

[iantouch]

A thank you madam would be more appropriate ;)

Thank you madam. Hahaha. I'm sorry I didn't know. :)
I'm thinking of getting a few more, may be it'll help in making them feel more at ease with the tank.
The tank looks so empty because they're not swimming around. :(

[ericNH]

Give them time, a stable temperature somewhere between 82F and 86F, and clean water. If you can do that then I'll bet they do well. Patience! :thumbsup:

[iantouch]

Just a quick update..
I've added 2 plants the other day. They are still on their favorite spot. :)
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/tatchme/20141001_082859_zps9193a985.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/tatchme/20140928_222757_zpsea918450.jpg

The blue one is the most nervous, I've never seen him eating and he's looking very thin already..
I've tried feeding them beef heart mix today and tried eating eat but then spitting it out again.
I hope they get better in time. :)

[musicmarn1]

just to recap;

1/. aged water stops pH fluctuations which stresses discus
2/. good heater with attached thermostat, even cheap heater attached to good thermostat, some discus breeders here say is the way to go - those fluctuations are bad
3/. we can go round and round on WHAT temperature, because different breeders will say anything from 82 to 86 BUT the common key is very consistent temperatures, they will indeed sicken with enough stress
4/. as suggested, mixing tank mates and plants (which carry snails and things, very often) can introduce something to an ALREADY stressed discus, which means they have no protection against that thing
5/. consistently clean water is key to recovery, consistently warm constant temp water and a covering on the bottom of thin pool sand (ideally but hard to do when already filled with water, you would paint the underside of the tank so its not reflective which can scare the discus, a lot of healthy good stock discus in big groups wont mind a bare bottom but its another stress factor for yours)
6/. if you do take out the plants, using ceramic cones , clean driftwood can give them a hiding place
7/. dimming the lights for a couple of weeks (discus do need light but can be dim for a while to get them happier)
8/. to get them eating, notice thats mentioned pretty much last? it might be already a bit late for some, BUT you can bet if the other factors are addressed appetite comes back, the fact they are not eating well tells you they are unhappy and or unwell.
9/. poo sample, can you get some feces and ask a local vet to take a look under microscope ? nothing worse in this world than treating the fish yourself if you dont know what they have, even then if you do know dosage is all important, clean water and lots of changes, all the other factors will help you more.
10/. adding an airstone and checking flow rate of the filter, (was your filter fully cycled?) will often help stressed fish, airstones are something i always add now

in your tank right now there are a few factors that are a bit less than ideal

of course that fluctuating temperature is a big one, but all the other things come into play more and more when the discus is already super stressed !

best of luck, got some great people here to help you

[iantouch]

just to recap;

1/. aged water stops pH fluctuations which stresses discus
2/. good heater with attached thermostat, even cheap heater attached to good thermostat, some discus breeders here say is the way to go - those fluctuations are bad
3/. we can go round and round on WHAT temperature, because different breeders will say anything from 82 to 86 BUT the common key is very consistent temperatures, they will indeed sicken with enough stress
4/. as suggested, mixing tank mates and plants (which carry snails and things, very often) can introduce something to an ALREADY stressed discus, which means they have no protection against that thing
5/. consistently clean water is key to recovery, consistently warm constant temp water and a covering on the bottom of thin pool sand (ideally but hard to do when already filled with water, you would paint the underside of the tank so its not reflective which can scare the discus, a lot of healthy good stock discus in big groups wont mind a bare bottom but its another stress factor for yours)
6/. if you do take out the plants, using ceramic cones , clean driftwood can give them a hiding place
7/. dimming the lights for a couple of weeks (discus do need light but can be dim for a while to get them happier)
8/. to get them eating, notice thats mentioned pretty much last? it might be already a bit late for some, BUT you can bet if the other factors are addressed appetite comes back, the fact they are not eating well tells you they are unhappy and or unwell.
9/. poo sample, can you get some feces and ask a local vet to take a look under microscope ? nothing worse in this world than treating the fish yourself if you dont know what they have, even then if you do know dosage is all important, clean water and lots of changes, all the other factors will help you more.
10/. adding an airstone and checking flow rate of the filter, (was your filter fully cycled?) will often help stressed fish, airstones are something i always add now

in your tank right now there are a few factors that are a bit less than ideal

of course that fluctuating temperature is a big one, but all the other things come into play more and more when the discus is already super stressed !

best of luck, got some great people here to help you

Points well taken sir.
I think I can do away with the heater right because it's still very hot in here.
I'm saving for a chiller tho for the summer season where outside temperature shoots up to almost 50 degrees Celsius.
'm planning on putting some sand also, may be next month.

Thanks!

[musicmarn1]

Lol I'm a woman too ;)

[iantouch]

Lol I'm a woman too ;)

Oh my.. I'm sorry. Hahaha. :grin:

[musicmarn1]

Hehe, np at all!

The heater comment was for the 80, Temps I saw you post :) you can certainly, happily stay At 82 but anything below that will be too low and make them sluggish and not hungry.

I get that a chiller will have to happen later on. My brain is trying to think of ways you can best stabilize the water without it.......

[iantouch]

Hi all!

This morning I removed all the plants to see how they'd react. I'm hoping this would somehow make some changes in their being spooky. I don't like it but I have to try if it makes them better.
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn213/tatchme/Mobile%20Uploads/20141004_210232_zps40c962ba.jpg

Happy fish keeping everyone.. :)

[OC Discus]

Do they ever move out of that spot?

[iantouch]

Yeah they do sometimes when eating. But then they would return immediately if they see some movements.

[iantouch]

Hey guys..
I think my fishes are in serious troubke.
Just yesterday afternoon they stopped eating and today as well.
They don't move from their spot also.

For the first time in so long of taking care of fishes, I don't know what to do.

[Second Hand Pat]

You mentioned earlier in the thread that the bottom is black. I would be tempted to add a light sprinkling of PFS to the bottom but also think you should create a thread in the Emergency Room forum and fill out the disease questionnaire.

[DISCUS STU]

Most of them look like the various offshoots of Pigeon Bloods but it's hard to tell without closeups.

Do you have a bedding or something underneath the tank to cover the bottom from the outside, underneath?

[Quintin]

Welcome.you have allready got a wealth of info here,so nothing really to add.im assuming that these fish were sick and stunted allready when you bought them, then traveled and fluctuating temps not helping.Try put your heater in the main flow of water so as to spread the warm water around the tank.I think these fish are very sick and some will probably die.Its a sad thing, but i had the same problem as didnt have good suppliers.Most fish bought stunted and sick have died if not all.Good luck with your fish

[iantouch]

Hey guys..

I was in for a surprise this afternoon when my discus are not all huddled up in their corner anymore. :)
They're all swimming around the tank now and shows little skittishness.
I think it helped when I removed the air bubbles coming from the power head earlier in the morning.

I hope they'll continue to be like that always.