Cloudy eye

[skull1012010]

Hi everybody,

well i'm really new with Discus and i don't want to panic and ending up hurting my Discus so if someone can please give me advice it would be really appreciated, i have 7 Discus in a 90 gallon aquarium, first i got 5 discus and few moths latter i got the last two, well the last two are little scared when i clean the aquarium and when i feed them, one of them is the biggest one in my aquarium (5") and the one with a cloudy eye and also has white poop.
I'm getting concerned because i don't see him eating and per must part he is always hiding except when i turn the light off in the aquarium he goes with the rest of the Discus and acts normal. The other one does kind of the same thing just doesn't have a cloudy eye but both of them like to stay in they're own corner per most part only at times they go with the rest of the fish. i don't want to panic but i'm getting really concerned, can anybody tell me what can i do? thank you in advance for the the replies.
oh i also do 40% water changes every other day and clean the gravel every time i change the gravel
i also use only API stress coat water conditioner every time i do a water change
i keep the water temperature at 83.
i feed them frozen blood worms, spirulina flakes and beefheart flakes.
PH is at 7.2
I have two external canister filters one with UV sterilizer and Bio Balls in both of them and No activated carbon on both of them.

[nc0gnet0]

Please fill out the disease questionnaire. It is located here:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?115165-Changes-to-the-Disease-Sickness-and-Medication-forum

Open the page, copy and then paste it, then answer the questions.

In the interim, up your water changes to 50+ per day, and look to improve upon your diet.

Seriously consider going with a bare bottom tank as well. Gravel has no use in a discus tank.

Get ready to prepare a Quarantine tank for treatment.

Your diet has some room for improvement as well. I would like to see either a beefheart/seafood mix or perhaps some FDBW's added.

Would like to see some pictures of the infected fish as well as the tank as a whole.

-Rick

[skull1012010]

thank you very much for the advice,
I will do a water change 50% daily
I really wouldn't like to go bare bottom because i really like the gravel look in the tank (its the really small gravel almost like sand)that would really be my last resource.
I order the beefheart/seefood mix online and also order the Al's FDBW's
I will do my best to take good pictures and will post them tomorrow.
I don't have an extra tank for Quarantine, is there any other way? or do i have to buy one?
thank you very much for the tips, and i will get back tomorrow with some pictures.

[skull1012010]

sorry but i tried the link to fill out the disease questionnaire but it takes me to: Changes to the Disease/Sickness and Medication forum.

[rickztahone]

Here is the questionnaire, if you'd like, quote my post and fill in your answers in red:


DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.



Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.


5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).


6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?


7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.


8. Parameters and water source;


Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.

- temp _____

- ph _____

- ammonia reading ____

- nitrite reading ____

- nitrate reading ____

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water ____

- RO water ____


[B]9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.


10. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

[nc0gnet0]

sorry but i tried the link to fill out the disease questionnaire but it takes me to: Changes to the Disease/Sickness and Medication forum.

oops my bad-wrong link-sorry.

[skull1012010]

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
the problem started like the 3rd day after i put them in the tank the only thing i think i did wrong was that i didn't have enough time to acclimate both of them and i only acclimated them for like 1 hour in a bucket and the following day i did a water change (40%).


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).
The sumptoms i see are: not eating, white poop, hiding, cloudy eye (only one eye) and the other fish also has the same symptoms except the cloudy eye but he has red inside his nose and Opercle Gill Cover.


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
I haven't tried medications because i don't want to do something wrong out of panic.



Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish. The Tank is 90 gallon in the tank originally had 5 discus (one 4", two 3" and two 2 1/2") I don't know the ages. Also has 2 neon tetras, 3 reseline sharks (2" big) and 2 angels (one 2" and the other 3") they never bother the discus. and one snail. all this was before i brought the last two discus (one 3" and the other 5")



5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).I do water changes every other day 40% and clean gravel every water change.


6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
gravel 1 1/2" deep (really small gravel almost like sand)this tank has being running for about two months before that i had my fish in a 55 gallon tank.


7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing. I don't age my water because i don't have anything big enough to age it it comes straight from the sink and i only put API stress coat water conditioner every time i do a water change and keep the PH between 7.2 and 7.5


8. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp _____83

- ph _____ 7.5

- ammonia reading ____

- nitrite reading ____

- nitrate reading ____

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water ____40%

- RO water ____


[B]9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently. i only added a red tail shark (2" big) and he is really active all over the place and does bother the new discus (the 5" one) a lot, he goes next to him and start to nip or slide next to him like he likes the slime of that one fish its just weird but i took him back to the store .

10. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them. i will upload pictures and if i can a video.

http://postimg.org/gallery/nf6sn19m/

i Hope the images help.

and thank you very much again for the help :)

[skull1012010]

i already answer the questionnaire and put up pictures i dnt know why its not coming up?

[Second Hand Pat]

i already answer the questionnaire and put up pictures i dnt know why its not coming up?

I approved your post so it is now visible.

[Second Hand Pat]

Here's the photo's

http://s28.postimg.org/8xyke1vtp/all_the_fish.png
http://s28.postimg.org/grz5zg3ml/at_feeding_time.png
http://s28.postimg.org/azz1satst/cloudy_eye.png
http://s28.postimg.org/w884vzivx/cloudy_eye_2.png
http://s28.postimg.org/tn2k8gti5/corner_and_hiding.png
http://s28.postimg.org/d5tcmsx99/rednes.png

[skull1012010]

i'm sorry but i'm really new at keeping Discus, I wish i can understand what they need. its them two all the rest are acting OK.
Please guide me :(

[musicmarn1]

good photos,

do you have a Quarantine tank Skull? a 10 or 20g tank with a heater and airstone and a sponge, so you can take out the worse two, and keep them cleaner with a daily water change or twice daily water change would be the first starting point before our disease team get to helping you

its very hard for beginners to be able to raise juveniles successfully in a tank with so much substrate or a planted tank, just because its so hard to keep the very very clean water discus require to thrive Cloudy eye could often be because of low water quality or after an injury. its more a case of getting them into clean water daily than thinking about treating yet.

the hiding and obvious distress seen in the pictures is often due to a/. water quality (the lack of it) b/. fast moving tank mates, angels can be aggressive eaters and shy discus can be easily intimadated, c/. contaminated tank mates, snails and invertebrates etc, d/. there really is an ongoing list of variables that all add up to stressed discus and therefore susceptible to disease and problems

do you have a bare bottomed tank you can use for this? paint the back bottom and sides with white paint so its not too scary for them and then read these links while you wait for someone experienced at disease to guide you

cloudy eye
http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/disease_medications/external/cloudy_eyes.shtml

importance of QT
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?113717-What-is-the-proper-quarantine-process


setting up a discus tank that works
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?28937-How-do-I-set-up-my-first-discus-tank&highlight=juvie+discus


some sage advice about growing young discus in a substrate or planted tank, by beginners
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?111556-My-110g-Beginner-Discus-Tank&highlight=juvie+discus

[skull1012010]

Thank you very much for getting back to me, and thank you very much for guiding me because i'm really worried. i don't have another thank and all the extra stuff to quarantine this two Discus but i will go buy the stuff today and star with the quarantine.

I also wanted to know if there is any special way to get them out of the thank without stressing them out even more, i don't want them to get all crazy space out and hurt them selves. thank you again, this forum its awesome.

[skull1012010]

Hi Every one,

well first of all thank you very much for the advice and support, here is an update of my fish: well unfortunately the one with redness inside the node and gill died that same day i got the quarantine tank i did everything i could have done but i think if was to late, the Cloudy eye one its getting rapidly better his cloudy eye its almost gone and only has a little dot, I'm still changing 50% of the water two times a day once in the morning and once in the afternoon (this is not tap water its drinking water), he still kind of scared of me but i hope that gets better eventually.

Now i will keep doing this until hes eye gets a 100% better but after that how much longer do i keep doing this? and how do i make the transition to put him back in to my regular tank with the others? thank you guys in advance for the response.

Best regards,

Marco.

[musicmarn1]

ok again, there are people here with way more experience than me, but ill give you my best and shoot from the hip so as to help you best and not sugar coat it :) your awesome for going out and getting that stuff, and for caring so much, that tank LOOKS amazing it really does, but for them to have had these problems....

I believe....


the problems started because your tank water was not quite good enough for them , this is my humble opinion and based on my own experience i have a lot of discus now babies too, but am still a newcomer. Also i spend a lot of time reading every post i can on the subject over the last two years ! if it were me id strip it down to a bare tank
use the QT tank in the meantime just see what the difference is by keeping them in bare water.

im NOT a bare tank afficiando, per say, i came from healthy freshwater fish in all sorts of aquascapes....but i find its the absolute best way to learn discus TO START :) i went through 14 months of bare bottom so when i finally added discus to planted tanks or dressed up tanks, i could know my fish well enough to know any problems that arose. well....i love my adults in planted tanks but there are far more ive taken out due to water quality not making them happy.

the BEST heartfelt, advice with all the care in the world i can give you is try bare bottom for all of them, QT a new group to get a bigger group (cant mix them for 6 weeks) IF you can do that, they are so much happier in a big group and once you know what they are like after a few months in a bare tank (make sure its painted sides, bottom and back though - paint the outside) then since your an AWESOME aquascaper, you really are, you can play with it, i started with a thin layer of sand, for me it does not work well in most of my tanks because it gets too dirty my water is so darn thick everything precipitates out in the sand and it gets gross . lower TDS water has better luck when i had RO mixed in i had zero issues.

experiment and find what works for you but get the very BEST health in your discus first and looks second :)

hope that helps some, these problems started for a reason and very bottom line for me in that thank would be one 60% absolute minimum wc a day to get the very best in health, if that is your goal

best of luck !!!

[skull1012010]

Thank you very much Marnie, I really appreciate the good advice and i'm so glad i found this site with people like you. Well unfortunately i don't really have an extra tank big enough to have all my fish in there for a few weeks or to get another group of Discus (I wish i could) and i also don't have the room for another thank that big :( i only have a 10 gallon tank were i'm keeping my quarantine Discus by himself, as of right now i'm doing 70% water changes in a daily basis in my big tank, i really don't want the rest of my fish to get sick so i'm being on top of that, but to be honest its not really letting me enjoy my beautiful Discus because i feel like its to often, originally i was doing 40% every other day, do you think if i do 70% every other day they will be OK?, I have 2 canister filters and one of them has a UV light. Bottom line is that if i have to do bare bottom for my Discus to be healthier and less water changes then i will, but please advice how can i do it with out getting another big aquarium because i cant really get another big enough for all of them to be happy for a wile. Well i thinks that's all and thank you in advance for the advice.


Best regards,

Marco D.

[jimg]

to help the eye you can also remove the fish and put a drop of straight methylene blue on the eye. keep it out of the water for a couple mins then put it back. may take 2 tries but usually works.

[musicmarn1]

ty for chipping in Jim, thats great for me to learn as well.

Marco, enjoying them is important im sorry this happened so early on, at least you know going forward what you could do to get the best out of these glorious fish ! but yes i do hope that 70% every other day will recover them, hey its what you can do and thats a lot more than some would do so lets hope and see !! im crossing everything crossable for you :) please let me know how they do ?

[skull1012010]

Hi Guys,

I'm so excited! hes eye is 95% better and he its acting less stressed the only thing its that he is not eating yet but he looks healthy and acting more normal than usual, i'm waiting for my shipment of Al's DBWS and i hope he gets excited for some of those. I will get back to you guys in a week or two to see how do i place him back into the aquarium, and again thank you very much for helping me trough this experience.

Marnie, thank you very much for your kind advice and cheering me up when i felt like a failure, i know i shouldn't get Discus to begin with but i didn't know how delicate they are, I know its going to be hard and i'm probably going to be back panicking about something else but at list now i know there is people in this site that really cares the same way i do and will help me out again. I love this Fish because at the end of the day when i come tired and stressed out from work it relaxes me looking at them and thy're beautiful colors. thank you, :)

Thank you Jimg for the advice, for now i think i'm going to skip the medicine because my Discus is recovering rapidly but i will definitely save this for any emergency in the future,

Best regards,

Marco D.

[musicmarn1]

OMG !!!!!!! thats freaking awesome !!

np im a beginner too so anything i can share or help with is my pleasure, the hobby is amazing but it can quickly go very wrong when you dont know what your doing wrong. well done on getting them back on track !!