(Photos & Video) Male or Female?

[SoCalDiscus.com]

I recently purchased these two discus sold to me not as a proven pair but as a "pair". When I went out to the fish breeder he showed me a 110g aquarium with 9 fish all the same size of approx 5-6" as these are and he was correct, these two did appear to be bonded together and would keep all other discus away from them which would stay side by side. I took the pair which is a Hi-Fin Albino Platinum and a Albino Yellow Butterfly. I now have them in a 30g planted tank (see photos & video).


The pair does stick side by side and if anyone approaches the tank like seen in the video, the Yellow Butterfly tends to be the dominant one which will come to the front of the tank while the Platinum retreats behind a large planted log. The same thing often happens in feeding, the Yellow Butterfly is more dominant and will eat the majority of the food often not letting the platinum (the only time that they don't really stay side by side) come into the same territory for food. There is occasional aggression of biting between the two despite how often they are together as can be seen by a bite mark at the base of the tail on the platinum. Walk away from the tank, and they are fine together and again will stay side by side.


My question is simple. I'm familiar with discus but not an expert. I know the typical signs to look for to determine male or female but can't quite be definitive on this pair. By looking at the photos and video, I'd really like to get a consensus from you pro breeders by viewing the dorsal, etc and let me know if "you think" I have a male / female pair or not?


If I'm not mistaken, i think it's normal to see some biting especially if a male is pushing a female to breed and if she isn't ready but again (maybe I need to separate them from each other for a period of time while conditioning them for breeding "if" I have a pair?), and would love to get your opinions.


Thank you!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49Z5lgoVXF8

http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp83232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv4%3C74%3Dot% 3E2475%3D%3B27%3D34%3C%3DXROQDF%3E2685%3A%3A869%3C 252ot1lsi
http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp83232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv%3A383%3Dot% 3E2475%3D%3B27%3D34%3C%3DXROQDF%3E2685%3A%3B252%3A 252ot1lsi http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp83232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv9543%3Dot%3E 2475%3D%3B27%3D34%3C%3DXROQDF%3E2688242%3B5%3C252o t1lsi
http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp83232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv7%3C73%3Dot% 3E2475%3D%3B27%3D34%3C%3DXROQDF%3E2688257348252ot1 lsi

[SoCalDiscus.com]

Wow, I was really thinking I'd have a lot more experienced breeders input here. It must be a lot tougher than I thought to sex discus?

[nc0gnet0]

If they were to be a male and female, surely you don't expect to breed them in that tank do you?


By looking at the photos and video, I'd really like to get a consensus from you pro breeders by viewing the dorsal, etc and let me know

That's not how we do it, looking at those things you mentioned is seldom anymore reliable then tossing a coin,,,,(some say they can do it that way, and hey, they are right half the time). We would need to see the breeding tubes.

-Rick

[rdiscus]

They look small to me to breed, but i'm not saying they can breed that size ...
If I was you, I wouldn't worry about breed them right now. Stay back and enjoy 2 fish you have ...

[John_Nicholson]

Well I had kept my answer to myself but since you asked again here you go.......whatever sex they are I hope they are the same sex. Neither of those fish are breeding quality. If you are going to invest the time and effort to raise fry please try to do it with some higher quality fish.

-john

[D'Rock]

No offense.....Obviously, those 2 are not even worth to keep let alone breed. I have never heard of albino yellow butterfly. And how can you even keep them in a tank full of substrate and snails like that? You don't even seem like you know half of keeping discus. And those fish do not look like they're over 5". The only thing perfect about them is that they have a perfect football shape body. I thought they were actual footballs floating in the tank. The reason why the seller called it high fin platinum is because the body is stunted making the fin looks bigger than the body itself.

[musicmarn1]

at NADA this year i saw a couple of top quality fish, sold off as one sex or another, now these are sometimes $700 fish per fish. so you know you often want to know because a breeding program is often what people are looking for with fish of this top quality....anyway my anecdote, is that upon getting home a couple of these fish i know about, were discovered to be the opposite sex. Even TOP, show winning breeders get it wrong just by looking.

they had pair bonded, thats what you bought, you liked the fish you bought, so thats great ! they are pretty, but what the other members are saying is they dont look a quality enough to sell to the public, beginners should ideally buy super healthy, great quality stock, in order to get the results that make them stay in the hobby. I.e avoid sickness, problems etc

as a beginner im about ready to start breeding, just getting my breeding stock sorted, then ill expect to cull a LOT of fry. i certainly wont sell anything i breed for several batches.

Just stating opinions here, if John, or Paul for example came to my house, my dogs would be crunching on a few discus that im quite partial too :p no shame in it. your going to get a different range of opinions and usually the NICER the opinion the less experience in breeding that individual has. (maybe im generalizing but in my short time here ive found i seek out blunt opinions when i want cold hard truth )

Breeders have a responsibility, period.

ok that was my personal opinion but i think your fish are pretty and i hope you enjoy them !!

[Phreeflow]

Ouch!

[DISCUS STU]

83770Some of the asian breeders produce these high bodied types and call them "Bulldogs", scientific name, no idea. Bulldog? Is that any stranger than Pigeon Blood? As far as the fish shape; high bodied and elongated. Not to my taste, but what the hey. An old picture of mine attached.

If you're new to Discus then breeding these fish in this type of planted tank full of ornaments, snails, etc. will probably be a challenge if not next to impossible. The Apple Snails will probably eat the eggs anyway and the Discus wouldn't be able to stop them. You would need a separate bare tank. I see no indication in the video or the pictures of anything resembling a pair. Do they approach each other in an upward and then downward motion followed by gyrating/vibrating? Pairs normally do something like this. Breeding anything when you're new to it is fun but after awhile you'd want to look at breeding Discus that might produce attractive offspring with desirable qualities.

Aggression of one to the other is no indication of sex. I've seen incredibly aggressive females and extremely docile males. All I can really tell from these two fish is that you have two fish in the same tank and one bullies the other when being fed, which is common. If you ONLY have two Discus in the tank then it's suggested that you add more. Two Discus by themselves will normally have one dominating the other to the detriment of the other. Better to have 5-6 to disperse aggression.

Breeding pairs and sex can really only be proven by fertilized eggs. Barring that, seeing them trying to mate and their breeding tubes, which will be differently shaped. The females wider for egg passage, the males stubbier and shorter.

It takes some time and experience to be good with Discus. This forum is the perfect place to start and you're in the right place. Good luck!