LFS sold me pair...but may have been 2 males lol ..2 questions???

[2_Basic]

I purchased 2 Marlboros sold as a pair with a premium vs 2 single prices obv.

The 2 were chosen bc they paired up out of the tank which had about 20 plus Marlboro discus he was selling. He said they scared/pushed all the other Marlboros to the other end of the tank which was his reasoning for his pair price.

When I got home I put the pair into a tank with about 20 discus (holding tank while I set up my mini fish room this week). One of the Marlboros paired with a female Virgin Red that has been shaking and wanting to lay eggs (atleast I think that's what shes doing). Then I witnessed the 2 new Marlboros fighting each other doing that kissing thing.

Other discus are following the female Virgin Red around the tank including the 2nd Marlboro that I purchased.

1) Could this mean I may have purchased 2 males sold as pair?
2) Do 2 discus have to lay eggs before they are called unproven or do they just need to pair up?

(I hope that wasn't too confusing)

[nabilbb]

you won't know if they are male or female until you see eggs, wigglers

[2_Basic]

So, what your saying is I got screwed by paying a pair price sold and specified as PAIR? Doesn't that mean a male and female that have layed eggs together?

What is the definition of pair??

[nabilbb]

So, what your saying is I got screwed by paying a pair price sold and specified as PAIR?
possibly yes
but also possibly the LFS guys didn't mean it



Doesn't that mean a male and female that have layed eggs together?
What is the definition of pair??
could be 2 females taking turns

[2_Basic]

So, What exactly is the definition of PAIR then when sold as pair?

[nabilbb]

So, What exactly is the definition of PAIR then when sold as pair?
When one lays eggs and the other fertilized them and wigglers were formed

[Second Hand Pat]

Here to sell a true pair, the pair needs to have laid eggs and have those eggs hatch producing wigglers. Then you have what is called a confirmed pair. Discus pair all the time and it could be female/female and even a male/male (happened to me). But to charge a pair price for two discus which have not produced wigglers is not good business practice IMO.

[2_Basic]

that's proven pair...how bout unproven pair. And what this LFS labeled just pair?

[2_Basic]

Here to sell a true pair, the pair needs to have laid eggs and have those eggs hatch producing wigglers. Then you have what is called a confirmed pair. Discus pair all the time and it could be female/female and even a male/male (happened to me). But to charge a pair price for two discus which have not produced wigglers is not good business practice IMO.

I agree...I 've spent well over $1k at this guys store the past week so I'm a little upset if he sold me 2 males.

My understanding was a pair meant male & female.

[Second Hand Pat]

Maybe he will work with you on this. If not we have sponsors here that do indeed sell proven pairs.

[nabilbb]

that's proven pair...how bout unproven pair. And what this LFS labeled just pair?

That would be 2 fish like bodies, and hanging around together.

[2_Basic]

That would be 2 fish like bodies, and hanging around together.

I don't think he meant 2 bodies of fish. It was pretty clear he was meaning a male & female.

[nabilbb]

I don't think he meant 2 bodies of fish. It was pretty clear he was meaning a male & female.
Maybe He is honest
give it time and you will find out
but generally, when LFS put a label that says, "pair" that means they are proven pair

[2_Basic]

Maybe he will work with you on this. If not we have sponsors here that do indeed sell proven pairs.

Would love to get some fish from some U.S. sponsors on here but I'm in Canada.. :(

[2_Basic]

Maybe He is honest
give it time and you will find out
but generally, when LFS put a label that says, "pair" that means they are proven pair

He really doesn't know much about discus..I do think it is honest mistake. I bought a lot of discus off him bc he was a new store and had a wide selection of good quality discus from Malaysia. Good selection and quality discus around the Toronto area is very hard to find.

[nabilbb]

Would love to get some fish from some U.S. sponsors on here but I'm in Canada.. :(

Where in Canada? I am in Calgary

[Second Hand Pat]

Would love to get some fish from some U.S. sponsors on here but I'm in Canada.. :(

Maybe talk to April then.

[2_Basic]

Toronto area

[2_Basic]

I really think he sold me 2 males. It looks like the 2nd Marlboro is also trying to pair up with the female Virgin Red. haha

[nabilbb]

I really think he sold me 2 males. It looks like the 2nd Marlboro is also trying to pair up with the female Virgin Red. haha

How log since you bought them?

[2_Basic]

2 days ago

[nabilbb]

2 days ago

That is too early, they are just trying to discover the place and you will find a shift of everything.... Wish you luck

[2_Basic]

That is too early, they are just trying to discover the place and you will find a shift of everything.... Wish you luck

thanks...fair enough..but I guess I do have an issue with him selling them to me as a male/female when he doesn't really know himself for sure.

[Skip]

thanks...fair enough..but I guess I do have an issue with him selling them to me as a male/female when he doesn't really know himself for sure.

even people that have been keeping discus for years don't know if they are male/female.. until they lay eggs.. AND eggs hatch..

but you ain't going to find out by having them in a tank with others..
you need to put them in a tank by themselves.. and observe..

ps.. you should always observe quarantine of new fish..

[nabilbb]

Agree, 25 Gallon tank for breeding

[2_Basic]

even people that have been keeping discus for years don't know if they are male/female.. until they lay eggs.. AND eggs hatch..

but you ain't going to find out by having them in a tank with others..
you need to put them in a tank by themselves.. and observe..

ps.. you should always observe quarantine of new fish..

Aiye...thanks for info didn't know that :) ..yes I will be quarantining after I set up my mini fish room in the future. I've started to up my discus game and number of discus too. The fear of infection disease is becoming scary and risky now.

[Phreeflow]

If they were in a tank with 20 other similar sized marlboros then the chance they are male/male or female/female is pretty low. If its only been a couple days, they are still figuring out the new pecking order. A confirmed pair is when you see wigglers...anything other than that is unproven as even two females can pair and lay eggs. Although, this doesnt happen, at least to me, when there are many other discus around and a natural male/female relationship is possible. Also, they could have been paired up at the shop but have now decided to select new partners. To many variables...you'll have to wait and see or return em.

[rickztahone]

The easiest thing to do would be to ask the LFS to specifically tell you what he meant when he sold you the pair as a "pair". Ask if he has had wigglers, and if he had them seperate from the rest of the group. Typically, LFS will not have discus off in pairs, but only in larger groups to save on space.

[mcarbe]

Is this store across from the Pacific Mall ?

[Bill63SG]

even people that have been keeping discus for years don't know if they are male/female.. until they lay eggs.. AND eggs hatch..

but you ain't going to find out by having them in a tank with others..
you need to put them in a tank by themselves.. and observe..

ps.. you should always observe quarantine of new fish..

Yep,you just put them into a tank full of options.Possible pair is just that,a pair of fish,even with eggs,could be 2 females,confirmed pair,you got wigglers out of them,you know its a male and female,proven pair,you got wigglers,free swimmers,and they carried/cared/didn't eat their young.This can also change at the drop of a hat,lol.

[DISCUS STU]

Stores love selling "pairs" at premium prices when they really just have two fish hanging out together or even just two Discus in the same tank. The seller needs to be questioned and qualified as to what they mean by a pair, otherwise it's "Buyer Beware" or be wary.

They also don't always know much about Discus, hell it took me a long time, and again are glad to sell the first thing that comes along as a pair. A pair, really a "Breeding Pair", is only one that produces fertile eggs and wigglers, otherwise it's just two fish technically pairing off but not necessarily a breeding pair. Even if they're m/f, it doesn't mean that they're a breeding pair.

[Tankster]

More of a question, and hopefully a benefit to the OP, and other less knowledgeable Discus owners like myself - In order to follow this suspected pair to the end, shouldn't they have been kept separate, as a pair, in a 20 gallon breeder? Seems like putting them in a tank with other options might have distracted them from the love affair.

[nabilbb]

More of a question, and hopefully a benefit to the OP, and other less knowledgeable Discus owners like myself - In order to follow this suspected pair to the end, shouldn't they have been kept separate, as a pair, in a 20 gallon breeder? Seems like putting them in a tank with other options might have distracted them from the love affair.
It really depends on the person answering this question, for me, it is no, leave them in a tank with other Discus, my first pair were formed in a tank with other 7 Discus then I moved them to a 25G by themselves.

Now, if you move the pair that are not proven to 20G by themselves, How long are you going to wait? Discus is a schooling fish, They won't be happy in less than group of at least 5, so the time you wait form them to be proven pair, and it happened they were not, That would be a sad period of time for them

[2_Basic]

Stores love selling "pairs" at premium prices when they really just have two fish hanging out together or even just two Discus in the same tank. The seller needs to be questioned and qualified as to what they mean by a pair, otherwise it's "Buyer Beware" or be wary.

They also don't always know much about Discus, hell it took me a long time, and again are glad to sell the first thing that comes along as a pair. A pair, really a "Breeding Pair", is only one that produces fertile eggs and wigglers, otherwise it's just two fish technically pairing off but not necessarily a breeding pair. Even if they're m/f, it doesn't mean that they're a breeding pair.

It was quite clear he meant I was getting a male & female and that they paired off together in the tank of other Marlboros. I knew they had not layed eggs but I was willing to pay the premium bc I wanted to add a male & female to my collection that were known.

But now it seems like both the Marlboros I added are both trying to pair with the female Virgin Red which has been shaking for a few days wanting to lay eggs.

The 2 Marlboros are also fighting now doing that kissing thing.

This is why is suspected I got 2 males.

[2_Basic]

Maybe talk to April then.

who's April? can I get info please?

[Skip]

who's April? can I get info please?

lookin in sponsor section. she is in there.. in canada.. April

[Quintin]

This mite be a bit off topic but it should also be mentiond that even when purchasing a proven pair, does not neccessarily mean they will breed for you.You also have to ask yourself why are the people selling the pair as a good pair can mean good profit for them.the fish could be past proper breeding age.and from what i understand they were in a group what size were these fish as it would be almost impossible to sex them at a juvie age.And you could have one female laying eggs and another female will try to fertalise them.and you can wait and see who pairs up or yo can take 2 and put in a tank together to try get them to pair assuming you guess correct on male and female.either way good luck to you with this endevour.
PS i do feel petshop should give you more discus or refund some money to you untill you are certain they are or are not a pair.