Keeping Discus in Planted vs. Unplanted tanks.

[DianasDiscus]

Would just like to get a sampling of long time Discus owners opinions and pros and cons.

[Rudustin]

Would just like to get a sampling of long time Discus owners opinions and pros and cons. There have been numerous passionate and logical arguments on both sides of this question. My suggestion is that you search the stickies on this subject and then decide what works best for you. This subject raises many questions about your experience, the size of the tank, substrate or none, juvenile discus or adults, amount of water changes, filtration, plants, lighting and so much more. You can best judge for yourself by researching this site. I have bare bottom tanks which make for easy cleaning and maintenance. Best regards. Rufus

[pcsb23]

Depends on how good you are at keeping both. It really is as simple as that, despite what others may say. The reason why most others say the things they do is they aren't good enough to keep planted tanks, discus are easy by comparison ...











Boy I bet that gets some going :evilgrin:

Seriously though it is far easier to grow out discus in BB tanks, and most discus have never seen plants before, there are very few in the wild where they come from and all of the breeders I know use bare tanks. For a beginner even one who is good with planted tanks, I'd still advise bare tanks.

[John_Nicholson]

This has been beat to death through the years. I will make it as simple as I can....Remember when speaking in general terms someone can always find an exception.....It is very hard to grow out young discus in a planted tank. Lots of people try the vast majority fail. Those that don't kill their fish end up with crappy, small discus that they think are great until they see some real discus. Bare bottom is much easier to keep clean. This make the fish healthier and leads to a much better experience for the fish keeper.

Once discus are adults they can be put in a planted tank and with proper care will do ok.

-john

P.S. In all of my years I have never had someone look at my tanks/fish and say they missed the plants.

[musicmarn1]

I will just speak from personal experience,


I love both planted and bare tanks, i did not not start out loving bare tanks - however seeing a healthy, vibrant hungry discus is very rewarding. I do have planted tanks with adults in, who do very well. I have also had a fair few discus not do well in my planted tanks, luckily i had bare tanks to switch them into.


That purely reflects on my planted tank skills !! All my other species of freshwater fish thrive perfectly in them.



Paul nailed it - your skills in planted tanks are the biggest factor here, but als0 knowing discus well and the AGE of the discus is critical, 4" plus can do great in a healthy, clean planted tank. Juvies will often (if you look at the thousands of pictures posted over the years of such) not grow out fully, or really well.


Lastly what you want the end goal to be is totally 100% up to you. There are PLENTY of people here who keep beautiful discus in stunning planted tanks.



I have not seen very many at all, grow out very young fully and well to completion (i have actually been PM'ing members i found who started showing the grow out in planted tanks, but never showed the final product - i have yet to have one back who had a complete and successful grow out when they reply to me)

[Second Hand Pat]

Would just like to get a sampling of long time Discus owners opinions and pros and cons.

Hi Diana, if you need to ask this question then suggest keeping it simple and basic...ie KISS. Bare bottom with a heater and filter with daily WCs, good food and healthy discus from a trusted source. You will find that lots of people start with small discus from the LFS and place them in planted tanks and things are great for a while and the discus get sick over time. Next you know they come to this forum in a panic to get help with the sick fish. So best to develop the planted tank and discus keeping skills in separate tanks and once comfortable with your skills and knowledge in both areas then marry the two and monitor like crazy.
Pat

[miguelnight]

I recently converted from gravel to BB. BB is the way to go! Less maintenance and higher water quality. You can also put decorations in it to make it less "boring." Planted or BB is great! You just have to live with the consequences of that decision--good or bad. BTW--awesome advice from all the Simply "discus brain trusts."


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Miss_Fish]

I keep my fish in a planted tank and I have had good luck so far. One of the things that I often wonder about is the quality of the water changes people do. For example my boyfriend only changes around 40% of the water, and he doesn't siphon the tank or clean the glass; so if he was to have a planted tank with discus, he would fail.

I clean my tank thoroughly every time I do a water change to ensure that I get all of the uneaten food and feces. It takes more work than a bare bottom tank but if you prefer a planted tank it can be worth the extra effort.

It's like cars, some people prefer to buy a low maintenance and reliable honda civic, and that's a great choice. However, some people prefer fancy sports cars; cars that are high maintenance and costly to maintain. Neither one of them is right or wrong it's just personal preference.


On a side note I completely agree with John about growing out discus in a bare bottom tank, planted tanks are not suitable for that purpose.

[Jbarnes]

I've never kept discus a day in my life until a little over a year ago. I have the tank in the living room and having a BB tank looked pretty boring to me. I was not interested in growing discus I wanted a display tank. I took a 200 gallon threw some gravel in it with drift wood and various plants like swords etc. Stuck a pond plant fertilizer tab under each plant and lit the tank with some 6K T5's. Holy crap did those plants grow. I got sword plants growing out my ears.

My setup is rather simple it is reef ready tank that drains down to a sump in my basement with everything controlled by a APEX controller. I change 25 gallons of water twice daily via the APEX and once a month I siphon the bottom of the tank to pick up any debris. I do have a CO2 controller on the tank.

My advice, go planted its not as difficult as people tell you. I've got 16 discus that I bought online from a guy named Kenny along with 100 tetras, some clown loaches, catfish, plecos and algae eaters. Everyone that comes in the house jaw drops when they see the tank. Its not as nice as some of these planted tanks I see here but it looks very natural. Although I guess from the posters above discus live in a plant less world in the wild. But what the heck, they look good in a planted tank too! Automation is your friend, who wants to siphon water from a tank everyday. Even if you go BB if you don't do the water changes you won't get the growth. Forget the growth worry and just buy larger discus.

I'm no expert like the rest of these guys, just a average Joe who enjoys discus.

[deathtoduckweed]

My first experience with discus was an attempt to grow out a small group of juvies that were given to me when the LFS I worked at moved to another location, about 8 years ago. I had them in a planted 55 with about 2.5" of eco complete, tons of plants, and a few pieces of driftwood. At the time, I knew just enough about discus to know that frequent water changes were a must for juvies. I thought that 50% 4-5x weekly in an "understocked" tank would be frequent enough, and I ended up with little football shaped fish in a pretty planted tank.

This time around, I've started with much higher quality fish, 95% daily water changes, and bare bottom for growing them out. One thing that has surprised me about little discus is how much waste they produce! With the eco complete in my prior attempt, I never really had any idea. It has made me realize the importance of changing a lot of water, often. I've seen noticeable growth just in the past 2 weeks. I plan to put them into a display tank when they get a lot larger, but I personally would never again try to grow out juvies in a planted display tank just because I've already proven to myself that I don't have the necessary skills on both the planted tank and the discus-keeping sides of the equation. If they are adult discus I hear it's easier to keep them in a planted tank, but I can't really comment on that. JM2C :)

[Wes]

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?112041-The-Forum-s-Position-on-Discus-in-Planted-Tanks

[Tankster]

Nailed it. I appreciate you posting and sharing your fish rearing failure. I wish more would do this as it provides great feedback to other beginners. Most are to proud, or embarrassed to share their failures on a forum like this.
Cudos to you!


My first experience with discus was an attempt to grow out a small group of juvies that were given to me when the LFS I worked at moved to another location, about 8 years ago. I had them in a planted 55 with about 2.5" of eco complete, tons of plants, and a few pieces of driftwood. At the time, I knew just enough about discus to know that frequent water changes were a must for juvies. I thought that 50% 4-5x weekly in an "understocked" tank would be frequent enough, and I ended up with little football shaped fish in a pretty planted tank.

This time around, I've started with much higher quality fish, 95% daily water changes, and bare bottom for growing them out. One thing that has surprised me about little discus is how much waste they produce! With the eco complete in my prior attempt, I never really had any idea. It has made me realize the importance of changing a lot of water, often. I've seen noticeable growth just in the past 2 weeks. I plan to put them into a display tank when they get a lot larger, but I personally would never again try to grow out juvies in a planted display tank just because I've already proven to myself that I don't have the necessary skills on both the planted tank and the discus-keeping sides of the equation. If they are adult discus I hear it's easier to keep them in a planted tank, but I can't really comment on that. JM2C :)

[deathtoduckweed]

Nailed it. I appreciate you posting and sharing your fish rearing failure. I wish more would do this as it provides great feedback to other beginners. Most are to proud, or embarrassed to share their failures on a forum like this.
Cudos to you!

Thanks. :)
I now know that my first attempt fish were stunted when I got them; however, that doesn't negate the fact that my water change regimen was totally insufficient for what I was trying to do. One thing I've learned for sure being involved in the fishkeeping hobby over the past 12 years is that sometimes you can bend the "rules" and get away with it just fine, but other times you're gonna eat a big ol' slice of humble pie (and I've eaten many).

[DianasDiscus]

Thank you Rufus, and I am reading and researching all the posts. I would like to ask logical questions and factual questions instead of invoking emotional wrath from anyone.

[Rudustin]

Thank you Rufus, and I am reading and researching all the posts. I would like to ask logical questions and factual questions instead of invoking emotional wrath from anyone.
Dear Diana, I agree. Research and then an attempt successful or not is the way to go. This subject always brings out the passion of discus keepers. I appreciate both ways and of course there is an in between of planted or bare. Pots of plants in a bare bottom tank is another way to go. It's all up to you. Good luck and let us know what your decision is and send some photos. Good luck. Rufus

[DianasDiscus]

I'm 54, have kept very healthy planted tanks since I was 16. I have had discus in past, but because my husband was career Army Aviation we moved often. As a result I never kept the discus for more than a year and rehomed them back to reputable pet shops that specialized in keeping Discus. Many years I kept no Discus because of lack of availability or the simple know ledge of upcoming transfers, I left my tanks empty.
Now he is retired and I am again back to my first and true love, Discus.
Here Are questions I would like you and others to answer.
1) what is your definition of a stunted fish?
2) do stunted fish ever continue growing with changed environment?
3) Al mentioned Discus needing an undergravel filter in the planted tank forum?
4) what are most common issues/diseases do you see people with planted tanks running into
That's a start. I'd like to hear the views of long time keepers, both from The professional level and devoted discus hobbyist.
FYI, my current situation is a 150 planted up for 8 months, no KIAs, positive growth. Religious on Water change, filter maintenance, and plant upkeep. Home 24/7 with fish and feed small amounts throughout the day. I flirt and play with my fish, they come to me and all sit by glass wherever I am at. They fight for close front spot as I take pictures.
My ultimate goal first and foremost is the care and welfare of my fish, over and above asthetics. That being said, perhaps it is my own altruistic view of life that makes me feel life for a captive fish is more comforting in an environment beyond bare glass floor and walls?

[DianasDiscus]

I appreciate that and it is sound advice. I know I believe I may be imparting my own feelings of 'being complete' by having plants around them. I'm the animal rescue bleeding heart, as such I often think of their 'comfort'. As you stated, their entire lives are the exact opposite of planted.
Indeed the fish themselves are amazingly beautiful in their own right and need little to no enhancement.

[DianasDiscus]

I agree that fish alone are far easier than a planted tank.
I think what question comes to the forefront of my thoughts is perhaps I never had issue with death or disease in past with my discus, but because I never kept them beyond a year I may have had stunted discus without realizing this. All my fish were well formed, no footballs, unless I did a pity buy and deliberately purchased lesser quality. So if a fish does not grow to 8" plus, they are considered stunted? I grew out all I had to at least 6", but no clue if they grew last that. Hence, my second question is if you have a stunted fish, or purchase a stunted fish, is that permanent?










Boy I bet that gets some going :evilgrin:

Seriously though it is far easier to grow out discus in BB tanks, and most discus have never seen plants before, there are very few in the wild where they come from and all of the breeders I know use bare tanks. For a beginner even one who is good with planted tanks, I'd still advise bare tanks.[/QUOTE]

[DianasDiscus]

I doubt anyone would, nor would I. I did read the forum on this that I keep getting links to, and it becomes quite hostile at times. I'm not looking for a fight. I'm just lookin for facts, and based on all the information will do what is best for my situation. I'm very tender hearted and by no means would anything to endanger or harm my fish. I I'm not looking to grow out juvies. I'm think of the growth and development of the current fish I have which I have already grown out that are at approximately 4-5" and the ones I am looking to purchase which will be 5"+. I want to make sure I am
Not going to stunt these fish. Who has grown any out from this size? How about Chad at sandiegodiscus?


This has been beat to death through the years. I will make it as simple as I can....Remember when speaking in general terms someone can always find an exception.....It is very hard to grow out young discus in a planted tank. Lots of people try the vast majority fail. Those that don't kill their fish end up with crappy, small discus that they think are great until they see some real discus. Bare bottom is much easier to keep clean. This make the fish healthier and leads to a much better experience for the fish keeper.

Once discus are adults they can be put in a planted tank and with proper care will do ok.

-john

P.S. In all of my years I have never had someone look at my tanks/fish and say they missed the plants.

[DianasDiscus]

Any small discus I have are already at 5" plus. I'm just looking for that answer to if you have a discus at this size, can it fully grow out in a planted tank? I want all my discus to be their best, and it that means BB, I will do it. Is there anyone who has done it not BB?


This has been beat to death through the years. I will make it as simple as I can....Remember when speaking in general terms someone can always find an exception.....It is very hard to grow out young discus in a planted tank. Lots of people try the vast majority fail. Those that don't kill their fish end up with crappy, small discus that they think are great until they see some real discus. Bare bottom is much easier to keep clean. This make the fish healthier and leads to a much better experience for the fish keeper.

Once discus are adults they can be put in a planted tank and with proper care will do ok.

-john

P.S. In all of my years I have never had someone look at my tanks/fish and say they missed the plants.

[DianasDiscus]

Thank you for your input and information. So you have never come across anyone who has raised a discus from say 5" to adult in a planted tank? I think that is the elusive being that I seek, for without him I will be breaking down my tank after the Thanksgiving holidays when all the children and grandchildren go back to their homes, so I may BB it for the fish until they are fully grown.
I will just speak from personal experience,


I love both planted and bare tanks, i did not not start out loving bare tanks - however seeing a healthy, vibrant hungry discus is very rewarding. I do have planted tanks with adults in, who do very well. I have also had a fair few discus not do well in my planted tanks, luckily i had bare tanks to switch them into.


That purely reflects on my planted tank skills !! All my other species of freshwater fish thrive perfectly in them.



Paul nailed it - your skills in planted tanks are the biggest factor here, but als0 knowing discus well and the AGE of the discus is critical, 4" plus can do great in a healthy, clean planted tank. Juvies will often (if you look at the thousands of pictures posted over the years of such) not grow out fully, or really well.


Lastly what you want the end goal to be is totally 100% up to you. There are PLENTY of people here who keep beautiful discus in stunning planted tanks.



I have not seen very many at all, grow out very young fully and well to completion (i have actually been PM'ing members i found who started showing the grow out in planted tanks, but never showed the final product - i have yet to have one back who had a complete and successful grow out when they reply to me)

[DianasDiscus]

Sound advice which I completely agree with. Thank you!


Hi Diana, if you need to ask this question then suggest keeping it simple and basic...ie KISS. Bare bottom with a heater and filter with daily WCs, good food and healthy discus from a trusted source. You will find that lots of people start with small discus from the LFS and place them in planted tanks and things are great for a while and the discus get sick over time. Next you know they come to this forum in a panic to get help with the sick fish. So best to develop the planted tank and discus keeping skills in separate tanks and once comfortable with your skills and knowledge in both areas then marry the two and monitor like crazy.
Pat

[pcsb23]

Diana, once a discus is stunted then that really is it, it will never reach it's full potential in terms of size. That has been my experience. Also not every discus is destined to be 7" or 8", in fact very few are and even less at 8".

[DianasDiscus]

That answers my question perfectly. Thank you!


Diana, once a discus is stunted then that really is it, it will never reach it's full potential in terms of size. That has been my experience. Also not every discus is destined to be 7" or 8", in fact very few are and even less at 8".

[Larry Bugg]

I agree that fish alone are far easier than a planted tank.
I think what question comes to the forefront of my thoughts is perhaps I never had issue with death or disease in past with my discus, but because I never kept them beyond a year I may have had stunted discus without realizing this. All my fish were well formed, no footballs, unless I did a pity buy and deliberately purchased lesser quality. So if a fish does not grow to 8" plus, they are considered stunted? I grew out all I had to at least 6", but no clue if they grew last that. Hence, my second question is if you have a stunted fish, or purchase a stunted fish, is that permanent?










Boy I bet that gets some going :evilgrin:

Seriously though it is far easier to grow out discus in BB tanks, and most discus have never seen plants before, there are very few in the wild where they come from and all of the breeders I know use bare tanks. For a beginner even one who is good with planted tanks, I'd still advise bare tanks.[/QUOTE]

I don't think you will find anyone here that would call a 6" discus stunted!! 6" is a good adult size. 8" in not an average size, it is above average. I believe that most of us will tell you that stunted discus usually fall in the 4" range and smaller. And all stunted discus don't end up being football shape. I have had stunted discus that are very round although this is not the norm. As far as stunted discus continuing to grow this all depend on the age of the discus. Just like all of the creatures in the world they have a definitive growing period and if they don't reach their potential during this time then they never will, IMO. While some strains develop at different rates I think a general rule is that once they reach about 18 months there will be limited growth if any. It is also important to note that they grow faster in the first 4 to 5 months of life and if they are deficient on growth during this period of time then they will likely never reach their full potential, IMO again.

[Frankr409]

I don't think you will find anyone here that would call a 6" discus stunted!! 6" is a good adult size. 8" in not an average size, it is above average. I believe that most of us will tell you that stunted discus usually fall in the 4" range and smaller. And all stunted discus don't end up being football shape. I have had stunted discus that are very round although this is not the norm. As far as stunted discus continuing to grow this all depend on the age of the discus. Just like all of the creatures in the world they have a definitive growing period and if they don't reach their potential during this time then they never will, IMO. While some strains develop at different rates I think a general rule is that once they reach about 18 months there will be limited growth if any. It is also important to note that they grow faster in the first 4 to 5 months of life and if they are deficient on growth during this period of time then they will likely never reach their full potential, IMO again.[/QUOTE]

Couldn't agree more, Larry. A refreshing voice as usual.

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1679-62252008000400008

An interesting scientific paper that provides equally interesting insight as to what they eat, how big they get in the wild. Compare that to some of the fish displayed on this website. 6 inches is more than average, fishwise, in the wild.