Sump Design

[Second Hand Pat]

So I need to finalize my sump design for the 180 I ordered. The sump is a 64 gallon (48x18x18) and so far this is what I am considering.

A three chambered sump where the first chamber is used as an inlet for the water from the tank. The middle is used for whatever filter media and the third houses the pump for returning water to the tank. The water will flow from the inlet side under the first divider to the middle chamber and over the second divider into the third chamber housing the pump. The two dividers will be offset from the top of the sump to avoid overflowing the sump.

The first chamber will have the two connection points for the plumbing where the connections points are attached to a slightly recessed (from the top of the sump) lid. Under the lid will be a removable drip tray (12x18) used to house filter media for sediment. The drip tray can also be replaced with a solid piece of acrylic with two holes cut into it to hold two media socks.

The middle chamber will be the largest chamber and will house all the bio-media. I am considering a fluidized moving bed using K1 media or similar.

The third chamber will house the return pump and will be the smallest chamber. The reason I prefer a pump in the sump is to minimize the leak points.

Thoughts behind this design are to have a nice basic design which is easy to customize. :D So who needs a picture?? Anyway open to ideas.

[DiscusLoverJeff]

Pat, I think your first chamber should have some type of sponge media (poret foam) to catch the large debris before the second chamber. Filter socks are too unreliable as they can clog easily if you don't keep up on them.

[Second Hand Pat]

Jeff, that is why I prefer the drip tray with quilting batting but the poret foam is a great idea to include also.

[mikediscus]

This is my DIY 240 gallons refugium sump system for my 400 Gallons wild Discus tank.

http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l578/mikeusa888/Fish%20Tank/IMG_0493_zps934aee50.jpg

[Second Hand Pat]

Mike, does the water flow under the first and second divider from the inlet side?

[mikediscus]

Pat, The water comes in through the first divider (Mechanical) that way all the large debris stay in the first chamber, using a small pump the water is then pump into the second chamber which is Biological. This way the large debris don't get into the biological chamber.

[musicmarn1]

Pat I want a picture ! :D I swear if i could go to SUMP SCHOOL !! i would, i want to know every single aspect of sumps, im tempted to volunteer for a sump maker, i want to go to back in time to my degree where i had to take chemistry and i hated it so much i had no use for it then......arrrg if only i knew id become a fish keeper !!! :crazy:

[Second Hand Pat]

Marnie, you have any LFS with marine fish in a display tank. Ask to see their sump. Seeing one in action should help you understand how they work. No chemistry needed and I will do a picture.

[musicmarn1]

oh i have had the fish guy to my house helping me learn about sumps ! i have taken his apart LOL there are different ways though, i want to learn it all, i do have simple sumps i use very successfully i just love experimenting, its how i unwind, i kept it simple in practicality but i want to experiment with more complex and just learn more:p

[dprais1]

Pat,

Haven't posted in a long time and I don't have discus but still keep fish.

Here is my opinion. Most filter media is just a debris trap that will eventually breakdown and raise nitrates. My most successful sump was pretty much just good mechanical filtration followed by good biological filtration. I used a 2"sheet of fine poret foam then 2 separate 2" sheets of matala followed by a 4" coarse poret foam.

I only used matala because I had it. If I was to do it again I would just use two separate 4" coarse poret foam. The coarse poret foam never trapped any debris. Rinsing after 6 months of use the water came out clear.

The fine foam trapped debris like crazy, even cleaning every week it still always seemed full of junk. I added a sheet of felt (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4136+25249&pcatid=25249) before the fine poret foam and that increased water clarity considerably. Cleaning the felt 2-3 times a week and cleaning the fine foam weekly worked really well and my nitrates plummeted. The coarse foam was just for biofiltration and because it didn't trap any waste it didn't become the notorious nitrate factory-and never needed to be cleaned.

IMO baffles are sort of a moot point for freshwater tanks- air bubbles aren't an issue. Plus without dividers or baffles you will get more even water flow through your filter media, at least through sheets of poret foam.

I'm no engineer but water follows the path of least resistance...so...if you have a sump and a layer of magic ceramic rings, beads, rocks or spheres and such sitting on the bottom most of the flow will just bypass that media. the foam sheets ensure water passes through them. K1 i'm sure will work great as well but I never could get mine to tumble correctly and the air pumps added a bit of noise I found annoying.

So I vote for poret foam and felt and just clean the felt and fine foam routinely. Detritus will also accumulate on the 'floor' of the sump and should be siphoned out as often as possible.

HTH

dan

[Ken]

Here is a picture of mine on a 180g, 2 - 40g breeders
Extremely over built 12" of Poret Foam and 12" of pond matrix(Pumice)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v679/ken75459/IMG_20141014_210955715_zps5fe9eb96.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ken75459/media/IMG_20141014_210955715_zps5fe9eb96.jpg.html)

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Dan,

You haven't posted in a while. I have read that poret foam is super good and has a variety of uses as you say. I currently use quilting batting (sort of like your felt) in the drip tray and that provides great mechanical filtration but you have to stay on top of it. Are those felt pad reusable?

Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Here is a picture of mine on a 180g, 2 - 40g breeders
Extremely over built 12" of Poret Foam and 12" of pond matrix(Pumice)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v679/ken75459/IMG_20141014_210955715_zps5fe9eb96.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ken75459/media/IMG_20141014_210955715_zps5fe9eb96.jpg.html)

Ken, your 180 is 8 foot? Mine will be six but nice double sump.

[MKD]

here is mine 48x18x23 (my sketch is suck and cant find it :( )
There are so many options. let me know if you have any questions

have fun Pat!!!


https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-p8Sxe7MsiD0/U3sGXFZEXMI/AAAAAAAAG2g/RqsDxH4V0w4/w958-h542-no/IMAG1124.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-PexhDvw90GM/U3sGZRCQwgI/AAAAAAAAG2o/pv9-2Y-2M6o/w958-h542-no/IMAG1122.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-S73eKN1IyzQ/U3sHI7wMu7I/AAAAAAAAG4Q/KloND06IkFw/w958-h719-no/20140519_211112.jpg

[Second Hand Pat]

That is great Tony, three drip trays...what are you pulling in them?

[Eti]

Ken, your 180 is 8 foot? Mine will be six but nice double sump.

I like Your set up.
I have the same sump size, do you know where I could find those poret foam pad of these dimensions online? Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Second Hand Pat]

I like Your set up.
I have the same sump size, do you know where I could find those poret foam pad of these dimensions online? Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Here you go :D http://www.swisstropicals.com/

[Eti]

Thanks!!!


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[Second Hand Pat]

Maybe wrong thread but what do you think?

84046

[Tankster]

I think one of our sponsors, Josie at Chicago Discus, sells it as well.

ChicagoDiscus (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?252-ChicagoDiscus-com-(Josie-Christopher)-Chicago-Illinois)

[Tankster]

That is a VERY nice piece in my opinion.

You should check this guy out. http://outerbanksdriftwood.com/

[MKD]

That is great Tony, three drip trays...what are you pulling in them?
Oh Pat, you don't want to know. I pull ton of stuffs especially feeding BH.

[Ken]

Ken, your 180 is 8 foot? Mine will be six but nice double sump.

No Its only 6 ft, Im using filter socks, changing them out when they start to overflow.
I had planned on using a 90g but it didn't fit.

[Ken]

Swiss tropicals for the foam, a couple of the cut offs I siliconed together.

[Second Hand Pat]

That is a VERY nice piece in my opinion.

You should check this guy out. http://outerbanksdriftwood.com/

Thanks Greg and thanks also for the link. Some interesting pieces on that site.


Oh Pat, you don't want to know. I pull ton of stuffs especially feeding BH.

Ok Tony lol...I will not ask.


No Its only 6 ft, Im using filter socks, changing them out when they start to overflow.
I had planned on using a 90g but it didn't fit.

So your stand must be longer then six foot as a 40 breeder is 36 inches long.

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks guys, keep the pictures coming as I am reconsidering my plan :D

[Ken]

Your stand must be longer then six foot as a 40 breeder is 36 inches long.

Had to go check, LOL 2-29g

[musicmarn1]

so exciting Pat !! yes i love all the sump designs this is awesome to see, i really like the drip trays on top, i actually was THIS close to having my 240g going but at the last minute we decided we wanted to redo the entire stand to have drip plates above the sump lol.......

though i had not discounted socks because i can change them twice daily no problem i love the trickle factor

i loved the humongous amount of Poret too !! i would love to do a huge block like that and then maybe K1 in the last chamber with tonnes of O2 pushing it

[Rudustin]

Maybe wrong thread but what do you think?

84046That is a great piece of drift wood. Of course you have a driftwood porch! I've never seen so much driftwood in one place before. LOL.Rufus

[Second Hand Pat]

I do Rufus :o...like lots of choices

[Rudustin]

Anyone needing driftwood need to see Pats porch! But most of all you need to see her wilds. Feels like you stepped into the Amazon! Rufus

[Second Hand Pat]

Anyone needing driftwood need to see Pats porch! But most of all you need to see her wilds. Feels like you stepped into the Amazon! Rufus

Thanks Rufus :)

[Rudustin]

All this talk about sumps makes my head spin! LOL! Pat, you know I'm technologically impaired! Rufus

[Second Hand Pat]

We can talk about sometime if you wish Rufus but you know. It's hard to beat a sponge filter. :D

[spiffyfish]

I've built a few sumps, and would say most effective and least/ease of maintenance would be just different coarseness of Porte foam. Filter socks are an absolute nightmare, running k1 is always noisy no matter what you do.

[Rudustin]

We can talk about sometime if you wish Rufus but you know. It's hard to beat a sponge filter. :D

That's all I have Pat! Just rinse them out every now and then and I'm good to go. I will admit I have one sump on my oldest 65 gallon. I rarely clean it. We used to call them wet/ dry filters. It was installed for me by my LFS twenty five years ago. LOL! I still don't really know how it works! Just kidding. After all I have a TDS METER AND A LASER TEMPERATURE READER! Just because of you. That's enough gadgets for me. Ha! Rufus

[Second Hand Pat]

I've built a few sumps, and would say most effective and least/ease of maintenance would be just different coarseness of Porte foam. Filter socks are an absolute nightmare, running k1 is always noisy no matter what you do.

Thanks Chris :)


That's all I have Pat! Just rinse them out every now and then and I'm good to go. I will admit I have one sump on my oldest 65 gallon. I rarely clean it. We used to call them wet/ dry filters. It was installed for me by my LFS twenty five years ago. LOL! I still don't really know how it works! Just kidding. After all I have a TDS METER AND A LASER TEMPERATURE READER! Just because of you. That's enough gadgets for me. Ha! Rufus

See Rufus, I have had a positive influence on you :D

[chidiscus]

240 gallons refugium sump system

Mike, 240 gallon sump. I assume that 400 tank is top notch show quality. I like the layout, looks very well put together. How often do you have to change out the sponge filter medium?

[mikediscus]

No Chidiscus, I am tearing down my fish room and put all the wild discus together in the BB 400 gallon which will make it easy for the move in couple months. I change out the mechanical filter every 3rd day and the white/blue media once a week and just do 50% water change 3 times a week.