I'm confused about 100% water changes

[robinsnestmh2]

I am new to discus breeding and have read a lot of posts that say they do 100% water changes. What do you do with the discus when you do these 100% water changes?

[rickztahone]

They lay on their sides until you start filling the tank back up with water. They will be fine as long as you do the process quick enough.

[Altum Nut]

If you are not comfortable with your Discus laying on their sides...you can get down just enough to the height of discus and start filling while leaving the siphon hose in tank for a minute or so. So you will need two hoses of the same inside diameter.
Much easier with 1" grow-outs which is why 100% w/c is talked about more often.
Seeing that you have 4" sub-adults noted on another thread you can go down to 5" from bottom....but very common by many to do 100% regardless the size of Discus.

...Ralph

[yim11]

start filling before its totally empty, balance fill with drain and you can do 100 w/o flopping fish

[kris2341]

I actually like doing it right down until they flop because it is much more convenient, you get EVERYTHING you physically can out of the water with this method and it is more efficient with the water in the end. The most freshness per gallon of water.

I can also squeeze out all my sponge filters right in the tank as I do my 100% water changes because practically everything comes out. No need to bust out a bucket and squeeze them out there and worry about potential cross contamination.

I personally make sure the new water is perfect for them though before I pump it in. Same temperature and at least HEAVILY agitated after dosing Safe for 30 mins though I try to make it a whole day if possible.

[rickztahone]

I actually like doing it right down until they flop because it is much more convenient, you get EVERYTHING you physically can out of the water with this method and it is more efficient with the water in the end. The most freshness per gallon of water.

I can also squeeze out all my sponge filters right in the tank as I do my 100% water changes because practically everything comes out. No need to bust out a bucket and squeeze them out there and worry about potential cross contamination.

I personally make sure the new water is perfect for them though before I pump it in. Same temperature and at least HEAVILY agitated after dosing Safe for 30 mins though I try to make it a whole day if possible.

Make sure you are not squeezing out your sponge filters daily, it is not required

[kris2341]

Make sure you are not squeezing out your sponge filters daily, it is not required

definitely not!

[Rod]

I am new to discus breeding and have read a lot of posts that say they do 100% water changes. What do you do with the discus when you do these 100% water changes?

A picture says 1000 words.

http://youtu.be/YWMnPZKJWaE

[robinsnestmh2]

Thanks for all the advice, but I don't have a container to house that much water to refill. I currently do it with a five gallon jug....takes a LONG TIME. What do you use to contain that amount of water and where can these containers be purchased. What would be needed for the container? I would put in heaters, aeration, anything else? I use an r.o./tap mix. I don't think my body could fill a 150 gallon everyday using only a five gallon jug....need advise on how to set up some kind of system. My tank has no holes! Thanks everyone...you've been GREAT!

[TomsDiscus]

Thanks for all the advice, but I don't have a container to house that much water to refill. I currently do it with a five gallon jug....takes a LONG TIME. What do you use to contain that amount of water and where can these containers be purchased. What would be needed for the container? I would put in heaters, aeration, anything else? I use an r.o./tap mix. I don't think my body could fill a 150 gallon everyday using only a five gallon jug....need advise on how to set up some kind of system. My tank has no holes! Thanks everyone...you've been GREAT!

How about a python?

http://www.amazon.com/25-Foot-Python-Aquarium-Maintenance/dp/B000255NXC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415807178&sr=8-1&keywords=python+water+change

[AQUAGEORGE]

definitely not!

+1

[rickztahone]

Thanks for all the advice, but I don't have a container to house that much water to refill. I currently do it with a five gallon jug....takes a LONG TIME. What do you use to contain that amount of water and where can these containers be purchased. What would be needed for the container? I would put in heaters, aeration, anything else? I use an r.o./tap mix. I don't think my body could fill a 150 gallon everyday using only a five gallon jug....need advise on how to set up some kind of system. My tank has no holes! Thanks everyone...you've been GREAT!

You can go to a Home Depot or its equivalent around your area and buy the Brute Trash cans that have the rollers at the base which makes it very easy to transport water from one place to the other. You can put an airline and a heater directly in to it, age it and then you can buy a submersible pump and pump the water in to the tank. Done.

[tvoydan]

I use 55 gallon food grade barrels found on craigslist. Usually run under $20 each. Just make sure they were used in food processing, NOT holding cleaners from a car wash. Around here I can find them from vinegar storage.

Cheaper that the brute trash cans.

[rickztahone]

I use 55 gallon food grade barrels found on craigslist. Usually run under $20 each. Just make sure they were used in food processing, NOT holding cleaners from a car wash. Around here I can find them from vinegar storage.

Cheaper that the brute trash cans.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that. I got 5 55g blue barrels that were used for food off of CL. Great source, just make sure to ask the right questions.

[kris2341]

A picture says 1000 words.

http://youtu.be/YWMnPZKJWaE

THIS!

This is actually far more ingenious than I thought giving it a 2nd watch through. They drain out the water extremely fast, but on top of that, the pressure lines stir up the water very well while the system is draining down to the bottom and allow for a completely clean tank without having to use siphons.

Though I definitely dont want to be the fish that takes a direct hit from that... Using a showerhead type nozzle would definitely make things easier on them and keep the water movement extremely high.

If I ever do an exceedingly large fish room, this is the system I'd use.

[rickztahone]

THIS!

This is actually far more ingenious than I thought giving it a 2nd watch through. They drain out the water extremely fast, but on top of that, the pressure lines stir up the water very well while the system is draining down to the bottom and allow for a completely clean tank without having to use siphons.

Though I definitely dont want to be the fish that takes a direct hit from that... Using a showerhead type nozzle would definitely make things easier on them and keep the water movement extremely high.

If I ever do an exceedingly large fish room, this is the system I'd use.

lol, you haven't seen the malaysian farm videos have you? You will see a high water jet hit the front pane glass and the discus look like clothing in a drying machine.

[kris2341]

I've seen a few, but I recognize these Lucky Farm videos from awhile back. Didn't realize until now that they are one of our sponsors.

I wonder what kind of pump is needed to get that kind of pressure, most pumps available in the hobby are relatively low pressure, high flow types.

[jsullins]

For water storage you can find these on craiglist fairly easy:

http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/for/4722613809.html
http://dallas.craigslist.org/ftw/grd/4750344688.html

Just make sure the ones you get are food grade or you can try these from jehmco:
http://www.jehmco.com/html/water_storage_tanks.html

as far as pumps go there are a multitude of choices you could hook them up in line using pvc or just drop them in the tank and holding barrels and plug them in like this one:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Wayne-1-10-HP-Thermoplastic-Utility-Pump-GFU110/203663846?N=5yc1vZbqn6Z1lp
it's oil free so if it breaks you dont have to worry about it contaminating your water.

[Platylover]

I know its not recommended, but I do 90% water changes with water direct from the tap now that my discus are larger and adults. I make sure the water is slightly warmer from the tap, about 89 degrees vs tank temp at 86. I add dechlor as well and change about once per week. When I was growing out the discus, I used to do 100% changes daily with aged water in large brute trashcans.

Sent from my T100TA using Tapatalk

Sent from my T100TA using Tapatalk

[Tony13]

Okay stupid question so why cycle the tank if you are going to replace all the water? What I mean is don't you need to keep some of the water for the good bacteria?

[Jason.M]

Do you mean leave some water so there's an amount of ammonia left to feed the bacteria? Or leave some so your not removing all the bacteria?
First when you remove all the water and ammonia then refill, ammonia will build up again and feed the bacteria. They will not starve in the short amount of time with out ammonia. Fish constantly produce ammonia through breathing and waste production.
Second is irrelevant because bacteria is not in the water column, well such a small amount that it doesn't matter.

Edit: by the way you cycle your filters not your water. You should read up on the nitrogen cycle of an aquarium and get a full understanding of it, it is the lifeblood of the hobby.

[Tony13]

Thanks Jason,
This was my first reading on a 100% water change, I figured when you do the 50% or etc you left enough of the good bacteria to repopulate and keep things going, but okay now I understand its more the filter than the water. So for clarity sake (I know the answer already but) so god forbid your tank messes up for whatever reason you run down and get new tank as long as you use your old filter you can put your fish in right away?
Tony

[Jason.M]

Yes. Instant cycle. Fill a new tank move your filters from old tank to new. You can set up additional tanks and rob filter material from one older filter and add to a new filter on a new tank to help kick start a cycle as well. Beneficial bacteria grows on any surface in the tank, but bio media in filters is designed to have maximum surface area to house the most bacteria possible.

[Fishquake]

I actually use a drip system that pushes more than 100% daily through the system and out to an exit hose into a drain. IMHO its less stressful on the fish, particularly if the water parameters of the storage containers are somewhat different than the tank(s) water. Fry are particularly sensitive to water chemistry changes.

[Willie]

Okay stupid question so why cycle the tank if you are going to replace all the water? What I mean is don't you need to keep some of the water for the good bacteria?

The bacteria responsible for the nitrogen cycle grow on surfaces, so removing 100% of the water has no effect on their activity. If you're using sponges, which I personally favor, there's where your bacteria resides. By the way, you can scrub down the sides, wipe down the heater and filter, squeeze out your sponges, and still have plenty of bacteria left in the tank.

Why 100%? It's just a lot simpler than 50%, 70% or 90%. I have all my heaters on a single circuit, so everyone is turned off when I tackle a rack of tanks.

Willie

[Larry Bugg]

I actually use a drip system that pushes more than 100% daily through the system and out to an exit hose into a drain. IMHO its less stressful on the fish, particularly if the water parameters of the storage containers are somewhat different than the tank(s) water. Fry are particularly sensitive to water chemistry changes.

Devils advocate - I'm not a fan of drip systems with discus and in particular with grow out discus. The new water is constantly mixing with the old water and you never really get a 100% change.

[Willie]

... Fry are particularly sensitive to water chemistry changes.

To each his own, of course. But if you're making large water changes constantly, there are no water chemistry changes between fresh water and tank water - other than the nitrate content.

But like many discus keepers, Larry and I suffer from OCS ... :mad:

[Woodduck]

Just curious. You folks that have 100+ gallon tanks, what do you age your water in to do a 100% water change? How about the 200 or 300 club? I know what I do, how about y'all?

[Larry Bugg]

Just curious. You folks that have 100+ gallon tanks, what do you age your water in to do a 100% water change? How about the 200 or 300 club? I know what I do, how about y'all?

Well for me my largest tank was a 220 but also 125's. For me the large tanks (excess of 75) are for adults, not grow outs. I don't do 100% water changes on adults, just juvies so the large tanks aren't a problem. Normally no more than 30 to 40% on them. As far as what I age in, I have two 330 gallon totes and 1 40 gallon brute for a total of 700 gallons of stored water.

[rickztahone]

Yup, the most common I see is the large 8ft 300 white barrels. They cost a pretty penny too. I had a friend that I met here on SD many moons ago that had a very flat type of container and he suspended it over his fish tank and simply used gravity to do wc

[Larry Bugg]

Yup, the most common I see is the large 8ft 300 white barrels. They cost a pretty penny too. I had a friend that I met here on SD many moons ago that had a very flat type of container and he suspended it over his fish tank and simply used gravity to do wc

When I was at the first NADA Show in Dallas I went to John's house and saw his fish room. Lol, they don't have to be flat to be over the tanks. John had totes, not sure if they were the 200 or 330 but they are in the ceiling. Think maybe it was 5 of them up there all tied together and he uses gravity.

[Altum Nut]

When I was at the first NADA Show in Dallas I went to John's house and saw his fish room. Lol, they don't have to be flat to be over the tanks. John had totes, not sure if they were the 200 or 330 but they are in the ceiling. Think maybe it was 5 of them up there all tied together and he uses gravity.

If I remember correctly Larry...John has 2 x 330g for R/O and 5 x 275g filled with R/O waste suspended on the ceiling rafters and yes flow is gravity. Great set-up

...Ralph

[Woodduck]

Yup, the most common I see is the large 8ft 300 white barrels. They cost a pretty penny too. I had a friend that I met here on SD many moons ago that had a very flat type of container and he suspended it over his fish tank and simply used gravity to do wc

Around here, you can buy used "food grade" IBCs for less than $100 and rinse and use.

[rickztahone]

When I was at the first NADA Show in Dallas I went to John's house and saw his fish room. Lol, they don't have to be flat to be over the tanks. John had totes, not sure if they were the 200 or 330 but they are in the ceiling. Think maybe it was 5 of them up there all tied together and he uses gravity.
That is good to know!


If I remember correctly Larry...John has 2 x 330g for R/O and 5 x 275g filled with R/O waste suspended on the ceiling rafters and yes flow is gravity. Great set-up

...Ralph
If John sees this, John, how much reinforcement was required to make this type of setup? Sounds cool.


Around here, you can buy used "food grade" IBCs for less than $100 and rinse and use.
That is very cheap. I see some from time to time on CL, but definitely not at that price.

[seankelly]

Where I live I am blessed with great tap water,I tend to do 50% water changes daily, but some nights I have more time than others.I do a 50%, refill and do another.Would that be considered a 75% water change,just wondering?

[warblad79]

Where I live I am blessed with great tap water,I tend to do 50% water changes daily, but some nights I have more time than others.I do a 50%, refill and do another.Would that be considered a 75% water change,just wondering?

It would be 75% if change 25% on the 2nd round same day. 50%+25% = 75%

[Jason.M]

It would be 75% if change 25% on the 2nd round same day. 50%+25% = 75%
That is actually not a 75% wc.
What Sean Kelly asked and suggested is a 75% though. Let me explain. Let's use 20ppm nitrates as an example. You have 20ppm nitrates, you do a 50% water change, you are left with 10ppm nitrates. You refill and carry out another 50% water change on the remaining 10ppm and you are left with 5ppm or 25% of the 20ppm you originally started with.
Doing a 50% water change then a 25% water change would be the same as around a 62% water change and would leave you with 7.5ppm of the original 20ppm.

[warblad79]

That is actually not a 75% wc.
What Sean Kelly asked and suggested is a 75% though. Let me explain. Let's use 20ppm nitrates as an example. You have 20ppm nitrates, you do a 50% water change, you are left with 10ppm nitrates. You refill and carry out another 50% water change on the remaining 10ppm and you are left with 5ppm or 25% of the 20ppm you originally started with.
Doing a 50% water change then a 25% water change would be the same as around a 62% water change and would leave you with 7.5ppm of the original 20ppm.

Sorry I'm not talking about ppm. I'm talking about how much volume. I never checked my nitrates, nitrites and ammonia. I always age my water and add prime.

[Jason.M]

It is still only 63% of the original volume being replaced. The two back to back 50% water changes will replace 75% of the volume.

[Jason.M]

I should have mentioned that the reason this happens is because you are removing some of the new previously added water with the second water change as well as some of the old water.

[Eddie]

http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/water_chemistry/general/wc_formula.shtml

One of the best resources.