U.S. Post Office, a SHIPPING NIGHTMARE

[DonMD]

I sent a box of 8 fish Wednesday afternoon from Northern Virginia to Cincinnati. USPS Priority Express guaranteed delivery Thursday by noon. The box went missing, arriving on Friday. Packing water was in the low 60's, fish nearly dead. Probably couldn't recover, and even if they did, would most likely have suffered organ damage.

I sent a box of 16 fish Friday afternoon from Northern Virginia to near Detroit. USPS Priority Express guaranteed delivery Saturday by noon. Today, Sunday, box is still not found. Gee, I wonder how those fish are doing.

Breeding and raising discus is fun, but not if you can't sell them to people who want them. Here in the D.C. area, fortunately, there are lots of people willing to come by the house for the fish, but I don't want to be limited to P/U only, and even here I suspect that the market would get saturated in time.

Called FedEx, and while they do allow for the shipping of tropical fish, the shipper must have an account, and ship business to business. So, that's out. People buying my fish are individuals, not businesses.

UPS has their "stores" everywhere, one just a few blocks from the house. And while their corporate policy allows shipping of fish, the local "store" doesn't allow it; I'd have to travel from Fairfax City to their UPS Customer Center in Alexandria, VA, in the afternoon after work, having prepared a box of fish for shipping, getting on the beltway (for those of you fortunately enough not to live here, it ranks in the top 5 worst traffic spots in the country) to get there in time. I't would take me 2 to 3 hours to deliver the fish and return home.

So, in addition to being REALLY PISSED at the Post Office for promising what they can't deliver, I'm now wondering if I should even bother breeding discus.

If you have any ideas on how to get around this Gordian knot, let me know. Otherwise, thanks for reading my rant. -Don

[Ryan]

You should be able to recover the cost of the USPS shipping since it was not delivered by the date it was guaranteed. Unfortunately the contents won't be covered because they do not guarantee live animals.

FedEx does make you have a business account if you want to get discounted rates. You do not have to ship to another business. If you want to be a "known shipper," which allows you to ship live animals, you will have to pack a test box (water only in the bags, no fish) and send it to their package testing facility where the box is put through a battery of tests. This test is notoriously hard to pass; you have to follow the instructions to the letter! My last box failed because I didn't write "Live Fish" on the outside of the test box, even though all the packaging itself passed the tests. Once you pass, they send you a little form saying you passed and you give this to your FedEx account rep. This is mainly used to negotiate discounted rates.

Anyone can ship fish with a personal FedEx account, which can be created for free online and linked to a debit/credit card for shipping charges. This will let you print a FedEx label online and drop the box off at a FedEx location, but you will be charged their standard, non-discounted rate. The last I checked, that rate would have cost me $215 for a 19"x15"x13" box overnighted from Florida to California. UPS rates without discounts are about the same.

UPS Stores are franchises so each one has its own rules. I never told them what I was shipping at my store. I packed the boxes, printed the labels online with my account, and dropped off the boxes for pickup at the UPS Store. Some don't want you to drop off prepaid boxes because as a franchise they make no money unless you ship through them. The best thing to do is call around to the UPS Stores in your area and ask if they offer prepaid package drop-off. If so, just print the labels yourself and drop them off. My boxes were clearly marked Live Fish and no one said anything. If they do, find a new UPS Store.

When you shipped USPS, did you tell them what was in the box? If so, they mark it perishable/liquid and for some reason this has held up packages in the past. I wonder if they go through additional screening. This is why I like printing my own labels, whether it's FedEx, UPS, or USPS -- it lets me control how the package is labeled. Most employees at these places don't bat an eye when you hand them a pre-labeled box; they just put it in the outgoing pile with all the other mail.

In cold weather I'd avoid USPS. Their service is cheap, but you get what you pay for. If the box goes missing for an extra day, this weather is not a friend to most cichlids. I only ship USPS in the late spring and through the summer. For me, October usually marks the end of USPS shipping for the year.

[YSS]

Don,

Sorry about the troubles. Just sell locally. I think there will be plenty of demand here in the NOVA area. Rachel O'lreary once said that she does not like shipping USPS overnight on Friday for Saturday delivery because if shipping gets delayed, next earliest delivery is Monday.

[brady]

DON
On several occasions when I have ordered discus Fedex delivers to me by 10;30AM next day and I'm not a business. I would say the shippers are probably registered with Fedex as business accounts namely Hans and Eric.
Jay

[DonMD]

Thanks for the comments, everyone, much appreciated. Paul, I'll look into setting up a business account with FedEx.

[DianasDiscus]

I have received multiple shipments from Kenny through FedEx Overnight and it allows great reliability in both tracking and delivery. I absolutely hate USPS, they are the worst for any type of delivery, and I would never ship anything live through them.

[OC Discus]

I think the post office should pay for everything you lost- cost of fish and shipping. After they do that a few times maybe someone will pay more attention to what's going on.

[ZX10R]

My brother used USPS and shipped 6 wild discus and they did the same thing. The box was suppose to go from Bowling Green to Atlanta somehow when they found the box a week later it was in Memphis.

[kris2341]

This is awful, to think I was actually considering USPS for next day shipping.

Good luck Don in setting up a Fedex account! I hope it all proves worthwhile in the end!

[brewmaster15]

Ive only had luck with the post office in shipping out live fish to the immediate area here.Being in CT, Thats pretty much New England.

Ironically,For all the freeze dried blackworm orders I have shipped, the post office gets it right 99.9% of the time with first class and priority mail..and the few times I have sent fishfood express..its always gotten there as promised.

I've had more issues with livestock and fedex but generally speaking, fedex is your best choice for shipping fish,IME.

SORRY FOR YOUR LOSSES DON!

Al

[DonMD]

SORRY FOR YOUR LOSSES DON!

Al

Thanks, Al. It's all part of the learning curve.

[OC Discus]

Don

You've moved a long way up the curve- almost to the end. Your fish look great.

Btw- do you have pics of any adults from that mix? Are they consistent or mixed?

[musicmarn1]

Gosh Don, that is such a gut wrench :( I know I have wondered to do with the offspring from all my pairs when i hatch eggs with RO finally, id love to sell cheap youngsters to beginner hobbyists only to give the youngsters a good home, never want to give to LFS id just cull them beforeI did that. Because OUR LFS suck, not because all do. not remotely interested in doing it for profit BUT it seems shipping nightmares are a really hard part before your big enough to get Fedex prices low enough for your customer.

I know here Ive had some Fedex fails - im in a ski resort and the fish CAN come in as if someone played football with the boxes, I love a lot of different sponsors here I support all I can, but for some reason only the FedEx boxes from Kenny come in without damage he is much closer to me is the only reason I think this is so, its obviously out of his control when they leave. But the further away they come, the more damaged the boxes are so I wont use Fed Ex delivery now only airport pick up

I might pay a tad more but fish coming in in the healthiest condition is the only acceptable outcome. So airport to airport can be an option for some clients too.

[rickztahone]

Gosh Don, that is such a gut wrench :( I know I have wondered to do with the offspring from all my pairs when i hatch eggs with RO finally, id love to sell cheap youngsters to beginner hobbyists only to give the youngsters a good home, never want to give to LFS id just cull them beforeI did that. Because OUR LFS suck, not because all do. not remotely interested in doing it for profit BUT it seems shipping nightmares are a really hard part before your big enough to get Fedex prices low enough for your customer.

I know here Ive had some Fedex fails - im in a ski resort and the fish CAN come in as if someone played football with the boxes, I love a lot of different sponsors here I support all I can, but for some reason only the FedEx boxes from Kenny come in without damage he is much closer to me is the only reason I think this is so, its obviously out of his control when they leave. But the further away they come, the more damaged the boxes are so I wont use Fed Ex delivery now only airport pick up

I might pay a tad more but fish coming in in the healthiest condition is the only acceptable outcome. So airport to airport can be an option for some clients too.

Maybe it is your local Fedex facility having a go at your boxes? Have you tipped them lately :)

[DISCUS STU]

Don sorry to hear about your problems with your loss and USPS. They're not very reliable. They're better for dry goods.

You may want to try Fed X again with the information given by Ryan. They're alot more flexible than UPS. I received Discus from one of the sellers on the forum via Fed X and all was fine. In fact, everything went perfectly. Both the shipper and Fed X did a great job. I guess you'll be using heat packs once the weather starts to get colder, as it is now.

Somethingp***y uses USPS, but why should he care if they get there dead, his fish are garbage to begin with. Sorry for my rant, I was burnt badly by believing what was actually advertised on his website.

Best of luck, Stu.

[musicmarn1]

LOL Ricardo!!! Do you really tip Fedex, damn.....that explains it ;)

[pgrhodes1]

Hi Don,

Here is Montana shipping can be a real nightmare. I have received 2 FedEx shipments from Kenny with great success; however, I know when NOT to press my luck. Each time I had them held at the FedEx location right by the airport where I picked them up. God knows where they would end up if I let them deliver to the house. We've heard just about every excuse they can come with for not being able to deliver a package, snow, cold, dogs, you name it.

Penny

[rickztahone]

LOL Ricardo!!! Do you really tip Fedex, damn.....that explains it ;)

Sad to say but the guy knows me well now. I get packages like 3 times a week. Most are from USPS (the delivery lady for USPS knows me as well), but I get quite a few Fedex packages as well.

[DonMD]

Believe it or not, those fish I sent out Friday arrived ALIVE ON MONDAY in Warren, MI ! ! ! ! ! The buyer is a great guy who I had already reimbursed for his purchase, figuring he had to take Monday morning off work to receive a box of dead juvies. But the bag water was at around 60 degrees, he said (I used three 40-hour heat packs in a 13x13x15tall box). After he acclimated the temps in the shipping bags, he introduced the fish in his QT tank. Four were laying on the bottom of the tank when he had to go to work (that means the other 14 were upright), but now I'M HOPING FOR THE IMPOSSIBLE when he gets home! We'll see.

But I learned my lesson with USPS. To add insult to injury, since I pre-printed the labels, the Post Office won't give the me reimbursement, and the phone number to call is a Kafka-esse bizarre menu that makes you want to hit your head on the floor. Arrrggg.

[Discus-Hans]

Don,

give me a call tomorrow, i will help you out,

Hans

[brewmaster15]

Don,

give me a call tomorrow, i will help you out,

Hans
You are in Good Hands Now Don!;)
-AL

[DonMD]

So, here's an update on those fish that were in bags for 66 hours, via a PM from the buyer:

H Don,

Another quick update... All fish have lightened up in color and are out swimming around now with the lights on. In fact they came to the top of the tank today when I approached looking for food. So I'd say they're out of the woods at this point and it's all on me from now on!

Truly amazing that they survived, and apparently are OK. Even so, it'll be a cold day in hell before I ever ship USPS again.

[YSS]

That is great, Don. :)

[kris2341]

glad to hear that Don, you would think a government funded shipping service would be able to be consistent and live up to its claims, it is laughable that it isn't.

How goes your situation with Fedex for shipping?

[DonMD]

glad to hear that Don, you would think a government funded shipping service would be able to be consistent and live up to its claims, it is laughable that it isn't.

How goes your situation with Fedex for shipping?

I called FedEx's Live Animal desk and left a message, so if they call me back I'll find out how to become a certified or authorized shipper. But it may not be necessary. Today I went down to a UPS Customer Center, there are two sort of near me, each about 10 miles away. They confirmed that they'd be happy to ship my fish. So now I'll start finding out the cost to ship.

[kris2341]

Sounds good, Fedex seems more popular for fish shipments but I havent heard anything bad about UPS, should be fine going with those.

[rickztahone]

Sounds good, Fedex seems more popular for fish shipments but I havent heard anything bad about UPS, should be fine going with those.

Same here, the only problem I see, is that UPS notoriously drops off really late at my home, like 8pm late. Fedex has always dropped off packages bright and early. I'm assuming you can pay extra for morning deliveries as well, but just thought I'd put it out there.

[kris2341]

Same here, the only problem I see, is that UPS notoriously drops off really late at my home, like 8pm late. Fedex has always dropped off packages bright and early. I'm assuming you can pay extra for morning deliveries as well, but just thought I'd put it out there.

yea AM deliveries are something that are bought, this is the same for Fedex. Package priority, money talks LOL

turns out UPS goes up to 8AM, wonder what the cost on that is.

[YSS]

glad to hear that Don, you would think a government funded shipping service would be able to be consistent and live up to its claims, it is laughable that it isn't.

How goes your situation with Fedex for shipping?

FedEx and UPS lose packages all the time.

[kris2341]

not at the rate Don did, they would be out of business otherwise. Apparently, he has had trouble processing the shipping refund, UPS at least gets you through your problem in the event the shipment is lost.

[DonMD]

Well, I'll answer some of the questions above. I finally did get refunded by the Post Office, but it was a pain.

I priced a shipment to a previous customer in Cincinnati via UPS. Next day by end of day is $97.00 Next day by 10:00 am is $100.00. Not much difference, but it may vary according to the recipient's address. That compares to USPS cost of about $34.00, so it's quite a difference. But so is the performance!

I don't think FedEx will be any cheaper, but if I can manage to become a known shipper, perhaps.

[YSS]

not at the rate Don did, they would be out of business otherwise. Apparently, he has had trouble processing the shipping refund, UPS at least gets you through your problem in the event the shipment is lost.

Do you know how many more pieces of mail and packages USPS deliver than UPS and FedEx?

[rickztahone]

Well, I'll answer some of the questions above. I finally did get refunded by the Post Office, but it was a pain.

I priced a shipment to a previous customer in Cincinnati via UPS. Next day by end of day is $97.00 Next day by 10:00 am is $100.00. Not much difference, but it may vary according to the recipient's address. That compares to USPS cost of about $34.00, so it's quite a difference. But so is the performance!

I don't think FedEx will be any cheaper, but if I can manage to become a known shipper, perhaps.

That is quite a difference in pricing. Would that be just a regular person going to the post office shipping something pricing, or that would be if you were a known shipper through them and with a discount?

[DonMD]

That is quite a difference in pricing. Would that be just a regular person going to the post office shipping something pricing, or that would be if you were a known shipper through them and with a discount?

Just a regular person. Known shippers get a much better deal, I think.

[rickztahone]

Just a regular person. Known shippers get a much better deal, I think.

Well, here is hoping you expand enough so that you can ship regularly and that you can get a better discount :)

[Ryan]

You only get a deal with FedEx and UPS if you talk to your assigned account rep and negotiate one. It is volume based, meaning you get anywhere from 20 - 50% off the listed standard rates based on how many boxes you ship per month. Being a known shipper has nothing to do with your rates. Also, the Live Animal help desk most likely won't answer your questions about tropical fish. They are there for people shipping large animals to things like zoos, research labs, etc.

You can go to the websites for FedEx and UPS to get a shipping quote and these will show you the standard rates. Remember that box dimensions are very important because both FedEx and UPS ship by dimensional weight -- if a box is over a certain size, they automatically charge you for a certain weight. So for instance I shipped a few 12 pound boxes, but because of the box dimensions FedEx automatically billed me for 20 pounds. This price difference can be a big one.

[DonMD]

Thanks, Ryan, I appreciate the information.

[Discus-Hans]

Good luck to figure it all out, being a shipper of Discus isn't as easy as everybody thinks lol lol

Hans

[dmheric]

Can't trust USPS. I always have my discus delivered Fedex and have called the terminal to have the FedEx guy deliver asap in cold weather.

[jgalen0025]

I hate to burst everyones USPS hating bubble but every single usps express package/overnight is handed over to ups. UPS is responsible for its delivery to the local post office in the delivery zip. If you have shipped things as much as I have you will eventually have a really bad experience with ALL shippers. They all stink and they all have around the same lost package rates. If you dont get discounted rates through shipping companies, you must factor the potential of a loss into the retail cost of your item.

[MendoMan]

Al and I are going through it right now on an order of FDBW, seems like they've fallen into a black hole.

[limige]

so this is why don isn't shipping, I can understand for sure.

seems to me fedex was always the way to go. last I know you don't make a big deal of it, just ship an overnight package and pack it well!

so did those fish survive that went to warren or what?

[DonMD]

so did those fish survive that went to warren or what?

See post #19.

[CliffsDiscus]

I mail overnight express, and usually have one problem out of ten shipments.

Cliff

[MendoMan]

One out of ten is a very bad track record. Any private business would go broke with as bad a service as they're providing.

[limige]

Yeah I meant like a month later. Just because they survived a day or two doesnt mean they made it ok

[RogueDiscus]

Hi Don,
Sorry to hear. I have a personal FedEx account like described above that I have successfully used to ship across the country (not much local business here). I don't get the discount though. If I can get back into breeding I'll probably look into it.
Steve

[DonMD]

Yeah I meant like a month later. Just because they survived a day or two doesnt mean they made it ok

I don't know how they're doing, I haven't heard anything. But I do know that they were alive and seemed well one week after arrival.


Hi Don,
Sorry to hear. I have a personal FedEx account like described above that I have successfully used to ship across the country (not much local business here). I don't get the discount though. If I can get back into breeding I'll probably look into it.
Steve

Yeah, I also got a different account, but at UPS; FedEx gave me too much grief about shipping fish, but UPS was very cool with it. I've got a shipment waiting to go, but I've decided not to ship until I can get two days above freezing, *&)#@!.