Rescue Discus

[RescueDiscus]

We were at PetSmart and they had a Discus in an "adoption" tank that was in really bad shape so I just had to take him. I would love some more information other than what I know and have researched.

He is black from stress, it looks like his fins have been nipped at by another fish. Other than that he seems A LOT better since getting him home. They had him in a tank with dozens of other fish and he was hiding at the very bottom. Since getting him home in a nice warm tank (84 degrees) he has came out of his shell and is enjoying swimming around. I can see some hints of blue peeking through, so I am assuming he will be a lovely vibrant blue eventually. He does not have clamped fins, he is very active since getting home and he shows no other signs of disease so I am really hoping he pulls through.

He won't eat so I am planning on going to get him some blood worms tomorrow to see if it helps him, what else would you guys suggest? Any special brand of food or type?

Anything you could think of that would help him with this stress level?

It seems like he was getting picked on and then got dumped at PetSmart in their adoption tank with a lot of fish he was not made to be around.

[rdiscus]

Someone is wasting money on food, and later medication ...

[RescueDiscus]

Thanks for all that advice, much appreciated. Seriously though, if you don't have some nice positive advice please don't bother. I'm not worried about money, so I would appreciate some simple advice on food for now.

[nc0gnet0]

I am pretty sure he was positive..........

At any rate, before we go further into what may very well be a futile attempt, show us some pics. Who knows, maybe you got a gem?


-Rick

[OC Discus]

So what size tank, other fish, water parameters are just a few factors that affect stress level. Discus are more shy than many community fish and will not eat if other fish are rushing to the food. Only a handful of common fish are good tank mates for discus- neons/cardinals, Corey catfish, Rams to name some of the most common. How about some pictures.

Bloodworms are a good choice to get him started eating. Once he's eating a mixture of high protein, vitamins, with some vegetation is recommended.

Ocean nutrition discus flakes would be a good first choice if you just get one food. Cobalt discus flake or pellet is another option. Freeze dried blood worms and brine shrimp are high in protein and the fish love them. These should supplement a good flake or pellet food.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RescueDiscus]

It's not positive. I'm well aware it is very possible he won't make it, but heck why not try? I have the resources and the will. So please, advice only. He's in a 55 gallon tank with two other fish. An Angel Fish and a Danio, both of which leave him be. The tank is at 84 degrees and I added some aquarium salt. Here are a few photos, he has some blue hues.http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss288/RosemageAdoptables/Mobile%20Uploads/image-1.jpg

[RescueDiscus]

The photo is pending approval! Thank you OC Discus for your help

[Second Hand Pat]

The photo is pending approval! Thank you OC Discus for your help

You can see the picture now.
Pat

[kris2341]

that discus looks like it is knocking on death's door, there isnt much you can do except give the fish its own barebottom tank and do daily large water changes of 75-100%.

In the end, the fish will probably be stunted and never grow but giving it the cleanest water possible is the best way to help it now because meds will most likely just kill it.

Good luck!

[RescueDiscus]

Thank you! I will give that a shot.

[XAnhLe]

Oh man... poor guy, he is looking painful. The best you can do is put him out of his misery. I hate to say it, but you should cull him
I know it does sounds bad, but sometimes the best thing you NEED to do is not the thing that you WANT to do.

[RescueDiscus]

I also got him to eat some food a bit after posting this.

[RescueDiscus]

You really think so? He's swimming around and he ate some food. I definitely don't want to leave him in pain. I thought he seemed better, at the store he was just sitting at the bottom hiding. We took him to get him out of there.

[RescueDiscus]

http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss288/RosemageAdoptables/Mobile%20Uploads/image-2.jpg

This was him at first and the top photo is him just a minute ago
http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss288/RosemageAdoptables/Mobile%20Uploads/image.jpg

[kris2341]

If the fish is eating, that right there is a huge positive, avoid giving it meds and just give it a lot of good clean water and it should at least escape the grip of death.

[XAnhLe]

You really think so? He's swimming around and he ate some food. I definitely don't want to leave him in pain. I thought he seemed better, at the store he was just sitting at the bottom hiding. We took him to get him out of there.

Truth is we don't know what kind of internal issues he has, probably some organ damages. But from the picture, he isn't just dark, he is dying. As much as I hate to cull, but I'd cull him. He is just suffering at this point, the damage is already done. Medicines will just put him in more pain than he already is. Take whatever Rick advices, he is one of the best in this hobby as far as I'm aware.

[RescueDiscus]

I will give him a shot, try the suggestions and keep you updated. I uploaded a picture of when we got him and one from a few minutes ago it should be on page one. Thank you again guys.

[XAnhLe]

Please keep us updated! Hope he gets better :)

[nc0gnet0]

Yikes..............

[nc0gnet0]

I'm not worried about money, so I would appreciate some simple advice

Ok, going on the assumption that money is no concern you need to do the following.

1) Purchase a 20 gallon Hospital tank, heater, air pump and stone, possible a filter. (approximate cost $60-$100.00)
2) do large daily water changes of 75% or greater.
3) Purchase the following medications
a) 100 grams of kanamycin sulfate........$70.00
b) 100 grams of Metronidazole.............$30.00

both of these meds can be purchased here .......... http://www.angelsplus.com/MedsAntibiotic.htm

If the fish does not eat, you will also need to purchase a syringe to force feed the fish, this can be tricky........

Your chances of success (defining success by keeping the fish alive for a period of 1 year or longer) is about 1%
Your chances of success (defining success by having the fish make a full recovery and growing to be a normal sized healthy discus) is about roughly equal to that of your GF or Wife having a virgin birth (what I mean by this is it would take an act of god-a miracle).

Now, when you start to add up the costs, the chances of success, and the fact your just prolonging the inevitable, your much better off just humanely euthanizing the fish, saving your money and buying a healthy discus here:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?42-SimplyDiscus-Sponsors

[nc0gnet0]

Also something for you to ponder.......

The term "humane" is subjective. It will also vary quite a bit based on the POV of the different individuals involved. In your mind, your POV, you are doing a "humane" act by trying to save this fish. But, I wonder how the angel fish and Danio feel about it (if they could that is)?

For instance:

I might choose to donate some money to a charity that is seeking a cure or providing relief to the Ebola victims we see on the news everyday.This is a humane act.

However, I would not take one of these victims into my home and try and treat them. Doing so would place me and my family at risk. This is essentially what you have done.


-Rick

[bluelagoon]

When I first saw the pic;first thing that came to mind,was my God,kill it quick,so no more misery.Your heart is in the wrong place,but you don't won't to hear anything like that.

[Rudustin]

I think culling is the most difficult thing to do when the pathos of trying to be humane enters the situation. I have to agree with Rick. Example: I have a friend who lost her sixteen year old, blind for the last seven years, dog. She is of course devastated at the dogs death. While I am sympathetic to her grief, this particular animal was having a quality of life issue that should have been taken care of sometime before it's death. Banging into walls, almost walking off a dock into the water, not able to maneuver in tight spaces seemed to me to be more cruel than it's death. I tend to think that we can get a bit too sympathetic about this kind of issue. Are we really helping an animal with such depilating health issues by trying to "save" it? It is of course your decision but take into account what you may be exposing your other fish to as Rick said. I appreciate, as we all do I think, your empathy. All I can hope for is that you do save this critter and let us know if you do. I am not going to be judgmental on such a hard decision. Best of luck. Rufus

[YSS]

I can't believe that fish is eating, but if it is, then it has hope. Good luck with the fish. Like most said here, if you have to resort to medicating the fish, you have zero chance of bringing the fish back to health.

[jsullins]

I hope you did not put that fish in your main tank with other discus, If you are going to follow Rick's advice and go the medication route you can get them a little cheaper through Jehmco.
http://www.jehmco.com/html/medications.html
Kanamycin 100g - $48
Metronidazole 100g - $12

[nc0gnet0]

That is good to know, for a while Jehmco had stop carrying kanamycin, i am glad they have opted to re-stock it.

For what it is worth, I really didn't expect the OP to go that route, but rather make a point of the cost involved.

I would like to know more about the Petco "rescue tank" if it is what I am envisioning, I find it morally reprehensible.

[jsullins]

That is good to know, for a while Jehmco had stop carrying kanamycin, i am glad they have opted to re-stock it.

For what it is worth, I really didn't expect the OP to go that route, but rather make a point of the cost involved.

I would like to know more about the Petco "rescue tank" if it is what I am envisioning, I find it morally reprehensible.

They all have one or at least the ones in my area do, if you have a fish that you dont want you just take it up there and drop it off, the bad thing is if someone in the store doesn't want it they are prob going to sell it to someone who has no clue what they are getting themselves into.

[sdrexler078]

None of mine have an adoption tank. I've never heard of that til now. But to the op I agree with Rick and everyone else to euthinize it. It's the right thing to do in this case imo

[nc0gnet0]

They all have one or at least the ones in my area do, if you have a fish that you dont want you just take it up there and drop it off, the bad thing is if someone in the store doesn't want it they are prob going to sell it to someone who has no clue what they are getting themselves into.

That's what I indeed was envisioning........Good Lord!

So you have one tank, might have up to say 16 different fish from 16 different people's tanks, some carrying only God knows what disease........Most of the fish don't belong together, have the different dietary needs, temps, etc......?

Some unwitting soul happens in to the store, thinks he/she is doing a good deed, has to actually PAY for the fish, a fish in which Petco received for free, takes it home, puts it in his/her tank, and two days later all hell breaks lose, not just with the fish that was just "re-homed (gimme a break)", but the poor souls original fish that up to that point were originally healthy?

Back to Petco to ask for advice, in which the new owner is told to purchase some melafix and pimafix, back home, etc etc etc.

Isn't it amazing how corporate america can pervert what on the surface looks like a good thing into yet another cash grab. I am pretty sure these re-homing fees go into the same cash drawer as any other sale in the store, and not slotted for re-investment into the fish.........

I wonder if this rescue tank is on the same central filtration as the other tanks in the store?

Talk about your accidents waiting to happen...........

-Rick

[vanslam]

I can't believe that fish is eating, but if it is, then it has hope. Good luck with the fish. Like most said here, if you have to resort to medicating the fish, you have zero chance of bringing the fish back to health.

I just say if its eating see what happens. Good Luck.

[kris2341]

I personally haven't seen such a rescue tank... but Rick summed it up PERFECTLY

Housing fish together isnt like housing some land animals in cages at a shelter, the water they share is like a single entity and is an optimal medium for the transfer of pathogens.

While I can get behind trying to save a fish that has come from such a tank, despite it not being worth the risk IMO, it should be done PROPERLY with a quarantine tank and careful attention. One does not simply plop a potentially diseased fish into a perfectly healthy tank unless they like to gamble, knowingly or not, this is a gamble. The angel or Danio were put at serious risk with the discus introduced to them but for now, it seems fine.

While the damage has been done as far as exposing your original fish to the discus, I still recommend taking it out and putting it into its own barebottom tank and helping it heal.

[RescueDiscus]

Were taking Rick's advice, he is in a separate bare bottom tank. He is still eating and swimming around. Thanks guys!

[Skip]

good luck..

if it doesn't work.. you need to bleach out tank and start over with new healthy fish..
lots of people go thru the "rescue discus" phase.. it will pass.. (i also went thru this phase.. very over that now, would never do it now)
put your time, energy and efforts into healthy stock..
hope it works..

[kris2341]

Were taking Rick's advice, he is in a separate bare bottom tank. He is still eating and swimming around. Thanks guys!

remember to do daily water changes and do not overfeed! the ammonia will build up and kill the fish if you slack off

make sure the water for the water change is conditioned and similar temperature.

good luck! Once it is somewhat healthy (good color and fully healed exterior) and you confirm that your other fish are still ok, you can probably mix them with no issue but I would ditch the blue gravel you have and use a sand bottom from now on, it is just much cleaner.

[DISCUS STU]

Sorry but this is going to be a lost cause. Unlike rescue dogs or cats, Discus that are this far behind the curve in general health and development have a very bleak prospect ahead of them.

I've purchased two "Rescue Discus" this year but they were fish that actually had a chance and were very inexpensive at $16.0084277 See picture. This one is now an egg laying female that I'm trying to mate with the right male but there's a huge difference between a Rescue Discus and a lost cause.

[nc0gnet0]

If a tree falls in the wilderness.......................

[jsullins]

That's what I indeed was envisioning........Good Lord!

So you have one tank, might have up to say 16 different fish from 16 different people's tanks, some carrying only God knows what disease........Most of the fish don't belong together, have the different dietary needs, temps, etc......?

Some unwitting soul happens in to the store, thinks he/she is doing a good deed, has to actually PAY for the fish, a fish in which Petco received for free, takes it home, puts it in his/her tank, and two days later all hell breaks lose, not just with the fish that was just "re-homed (gimme a break)", but the poor souls original fish that up to that point were originally healthy?

Back to Petco to ask for advice, in which the new owner is told to purchase some melafix and pimafix, back home, etc etc etc.

Isn't it amazing how corporate america can pervert what on the surface looks like a good thing into yet another cash grab. I am pretty sure these re-homing fees go into the same cash drawer as any other sale in the store, and not slotted for re-investment into the fish.........

I wonder if this rescue tank is on the same central filtration as the other tanks in the store?

Talk about your accidents waiting to happen...........

-Rick

The bad thing is rick I think they are on a central filtration system, I dont know for sure or maybe they have a way to seperate the tanks off line from the main system in the back. Knowing what i know now is why i would never buy fish of anykind anymore from petco or petsmart. To risky........

[kris2341]

yup, practically all petco and petsmart places do central filtration with no exceptions. Odds are if the aquatics guy is a novice, he probably would have never even heard of a sponge filter.

Though, Ive seen some where seasoned aquarists run their tanks, seems like due to the lack of space or protocol, they have to just throw their regular shipments into the tank and just pull out whatever dies daily.

[nc0gnet0]

Were taking Rick's advice, he is in a separate bare bottom tank. He is still eating and swimming around. Thanks guys!

My advice was:


Now, when you start to add up the costs, the chances of success, and the fact your just prolonging the inevitable, your much better off just humanely euthanizing the fish, saving your money and buying a healthy discus here:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumd...iscus-Sponsors

[RescueDiscus]

You are right, I was confused as to what user was what. Not a huge deal.

Again, thank you all for the advice. Whether you agree or not, we set up a bare bottom hospital tank with heater, air pump... you name it. We are doing complete water changes. As long as he is eating and swimming why not. I understand some of you do not agree, that's fine. But this is what we are doing and we will keep everyone updated :)! Also, we paid $10 for this fish, so I did not spend a bunch of money on a dying fish. I agree that it is ridiculous for PetSmart to throw every dumped fish into one tank. You wouldn't have believed how many random fish were in one tank.

[kris2341]

now that the fish is in its own tank, for better or for worse, you have your own little quarantine system for the future so make sure to use it to keep your current fish safe and healthy whenever you consider getting more fish.

As far as the lifespan of that current discus, since its pretty much black (simply put, discus turn dark when they are under life-threatening stress or illness) I would expect that if it made some kind of recovery and has no particularly harmful parasites, It will probably be around for a few months to as long as 2 years just because I don't think its body can make a 100% recovery at this point. This reason, among others is why everyone here considers treatment of the fish to not be worthwhile; but for you, it pretty much isn't about the money as you have certainly made clear so I am gladly helping you get however much life is left in the fish by showing you the basics of discus keeping.


In the event this discus passes away, hopefully in the distant future, and you feel you want to take a REAL dive into discus, have a look at our sponsors section for high quality fish! In the meantime, please feel free to have a look around and read up on things, The kind of attention healthy discus require is well above what most people consider for freshwater fish so it may surprise you.

I am Kris by the way LOL!

[Discus-Hans]

And I'm Hans and I gave up on people who tried this, problem is a few (or would I say too many) manage to keep them alive for a while and think....... Discus is fun, let's buy more.

Here is were the problem starts, this little sucker that should be thankful you rescued (or kept alive) is probably loaded with all kind of crap including Alo herpes virus and infect the more expensive you bought because you thought the little sucker needed some friends. And please .............. don't say we won't or you will be careful, you will and it doesn't matter how careful you are it will infect your other Discus.

Good luck,

From somebody who deals with people, who don't understand why that Discus that looked so great, infected all their other Discus on (at least) weekly base.

[kris2341]

Also something for you to ponder.......

The term "humane" is subjective. It will also vary quite a bit based on the POV of the different individuals involved. In your mind, your POV, you are doing a "humane" act by trying to save this fish. But, I wonder how the angel fish and Danio feel about it (if they could that is)?

For instance:

I might choose to donate some money to a charity that is seeking a cure or providing relief to the Ebola victims we see on the news everyday.This is a humane act.

However, I would not take one of these victims into my home and try and treat them. Doing so would place me and my family at risk. This is essentially what you have done.


-Rick


I personally haven't seen such a rescue tank... but Rick summed it up PERFECTLY

Housing fish together isnt like housing some land animals in cages at a shelter, the water they share is like a single entity and is an optimal medium for the transfer of pathogens.

While I can get behind trying to save a fish that has come from such a tank, despite it not being worth the risk IMO, it should be done PROPERLY with a quarantine tank and careful attention. One does not simply plop a potentially diseased fish into a perfectly healthy tank unless they like to gamble, knowingly or not, this is a gamble. The angel or Danio were put at serious risk with the discus introduced to them but for now, it seems fine.

While the damage has been done as far as exposing your original fish to the discus, I still recommend taking it out and putting it into its own barebottom tank and helping it heal.


And I'm Hans and I gave up on people who tried this, problem is a few (or would I say too many) manage to keep them alive for a while and think....... Discus is fun, let's buy more.

Here is were the problem starts, this little sucker that should be thankful you rescued (or kept alive) is probably loaded with all kind of crap including Alo herpes virus and infect the more expensive you bought because you thought the little sucker needed some friends. And please .............. don't say we won't or you will be careful, you will and it doesn't matter how careful you are it will infect your other Discus.

Good luck,

From somebody who deals with people, who don't understand why that Discus that looked so great, infected all their other Discus on (at least) weekly base.

Just thought I would quote these messages to make sure you know one EXTREMELY important aspect about pathogens and discus keeping.

I did not point it out directly, but this is the main reason to use a quarantine tank with its own equipment and everything so I will bring it up now.

It is EXTREMELY important that you do not buy any more discus to mix with this sole discus as the risk of infection right now is just too great. This little guy is the equivalent of a ticking time bomb, or a potential tank wiper to the discus hobbyist, (this is why everyone is screaming to cull it) so it is best that you just keep it alone until it has made as much of a recovery as possible (2 months or more in isolation and intensive treatment) then consider putting it back with your danio and angel as they most likely have been exposed from back when you mixed all 3 fish and are healthy still.

Even after you wind up mixing it with your two little fish, STILL do not buy any discus because what may not affect your danio and angel can still potentially take down a discus that has not developed antibodies to what it has, even if by some miracle the discus makes a full recovery, it is still considered a carrier of potentially deadly pathogens.

[RescueDiscus]

Perfect! I will keep all of that in mind, I really appreciate the help and all of the advice. Regardless if this little guy makes it, I still learned quite a bit and would be interested in perhaps getting into Discus fish :)

[kris2341]

glad to be of assistance, this forum exists to connect discus hobbyists and educate people who are considering keeping discus, we all do this because we enjoy it!

For most of us it is a hobby, for a select few, it is a full time dream job... Just look at Hans! He spoke purely from experience.

[DISCUS STU]

Understandably it's difficult for me and others to euthanize fish. I do it when there is no hope and the fish is suffering and is probably becoming a disease vector to my other fish. It's something I've gotten better with over time.

Petco really shouldn't be in the business of selling higher maintenance fish like Discus because they always do a terrible job by buying "C" grade stock that is usually full of hormones, they keep them in central systems or separate tanks at low temperatures etc. The people that care for the fish while they may be well intentioned almost as a rule don't know anything about Discus as I had to advise one of them that Discus should be kept at 82-84 f. not 77 f. After that he turned the heater up and these sickly, poor quality Discus perked up a bit. Their prices are also not much to write home about.

They do a disservice to people that are unfortunate enough to buy from them. Invariably the buyer will take home sickly stunted fish that even an extremely experienced hobbyist would be hard pressed to care for.

[Driftwood Mike]

Hope he is doing better, had a similar situation, was so black didn't know what color it was, lots of clean water eventually started to eat, a week later he came out of hiding and was a spectacular blue. No he is not the biggest or will ever grow to full size, although he is growing, he is always the first to the front of the tank when I walk by. Guess I'll take that as thank you and makes me smile.

[OC Discus]

It's been a few days. Any new pics?

I've never had a discus turn black, but I've seen pictures of many full colored, large discus laying on the bottom dying. The fish in question at least has erect fins, seems alert, and is eating. I hope the op follows through and shows pics of his improvement or demise.

People take in all kinds of pets this way- stray dogs and cats- why not fish? Even though many of us would not choose to get our fish this way, and many don't get their dogs and cats that way, the op has chosen to do it. Why not help? Maybe success with this one will whet her appetite for some of Hans' or Kenny's monsters. The point about cross contamination is a good one. It would be very unwise to spend a few hundred $ on healthy discus and mix with this one now. On the other hand, it could be kept in a community tank with the angel, danio, etc successfully for some time if it survives. I would agree when adding new discus to start with a new tank of at least 55 gallons (or sterilize the old one before adding new fish) and not add any of the existing fish because of disease. Everyone has to start somewhere. We just don't all start at the same place.

[DISCUS STU]

All good points. I started with one small Brown Discus 25+ years ago and caught the bug after finding out it didn't need to be fed live food and that it would take flake.

As stated before it's a hobby and the point is to enjoy it. there's plenty of other things in a day that may not be so enjoyable. Hopefully this Rescus Discus experience will be a positive experience in regard to learning how to care for these fish. These fish seem to be "special needs" but that doesn't mean that they won't work for someone on some level, regardless of mine and other peoples standards at a different stage of our hobby.