Are all PB x non-PB crosses bad?

[Argentum]

Are there any exceptions to this rule??

I had a previous Pearl Diamond (Forrests yellow discus) pair that now broke up and the female paired with what seems like a blueface redrose (I had a previous thread about those before).

At the moment they are cleaning a piece of driftwood to lay egg....to bad because I really wanted yellow fry.

But since this is going to happen anyway, should I expect the norm. or are there any exceptions?

[Rod]

Are there any exceptions to this rule??

Yes, of course. It is not bad in any genetic sense and is only considered bad because of peoples taste. No-one wants black colors on their pigeons and when you outcross with a pigeon, quite often a high percentage of the fry will have lots of black. But i don't think you have to worry about that!


I had a previous Pearl Diamond (Forrests yellow discus) pair that now broke up and the female paired with what seems like a blueface redrose (I had a previous thread about those before).

At the moment they are cleaning a piece of driftwood to lay egg....to bad because I really wanted yellow fry.

But since this is going to happen anyway, should I expect the norm. or are there any exceptions?

If you can post a photo of your pearl diamond please so i can confirm it is the discus i am thinking of? Imo pearl diamonds are not based on pigeon blood. They are either golden based or brown based albinos and your cross won't produce dusty pigeons. Most likely you wll receive 100% brown fry because the genes controlling for golden, and the gene controlling albino, are recessive.

[Argentum]

This is the male pearl diamond she broke up with:
http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p634/argentumblade/IMG-20141021-WA0021_zpsc05b2308.jpg (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/argentumblade/media/IMG-20141021-WA0021_zpsc05b2308.jpg.html)

This is the female (red colour from food):
http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p634/argentumblade/IMG-20141021-WA0020_zpsd29c7dde.jpg (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/argentumblade/media/IMG-20141021-WA0020_zpsd29c7dde.jpg.html)

And this is the male that now paired with her:
http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p634/argentumblade/DSC02638_zps1115fe36.jpg (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/argentumblade/media/DSC02638_zps1115fe36.jpg.html)

Thanks for the info on the Golden gene, is this a wild strain or is it a mutation?

[Wes]

is this a wild strain or is it a mutation?

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?71055-Strain-List-for-Beginners-(pictures) post #1 shows wilds the rest are from selective breeding.

[Argentum]

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?71055-Strain-List-for-Beginners-(pictures) post #1 shows wilds the rest are from selective breeding.

Yup, familiar with that but what I meant to ask is if it (golden) was expressed in wild strains or not.
But I was reading no and understood that the golden is a recessive gene and it shows as no pattern, so this means "no" for my question.

Now is my discus a golden?

[rdiscus]

It's ok if solid x solid color

[Keith Perkins]

Now is my discus a golden?

It appears to be. i have a couple in my inventory.

[Rod]

Thanks Argentum. What i am looking for is traces of the halo, that is a ring that passes thru the dorsal and anal fin of golden and brown based discus. On the pearl diamond, this is a common feature. I have attached a pic to show you what i mean. On the pearl diamond this feature is light colored due to the albinos influence, but on a non albino this ring is black and can be quite distinctive. The other pic is a brown based virgin red which shows the black halo well. A pigeon does not normally show this feature and have quite different markings thru the dorsal and anal fins.

[Argentum]

From this description I think it does fit my discus... so they might be golden based ... What do you think?
... If Kenny or Forest see this post they can confirm this straight away :)

Here is an in aquarium photo, but it's old they growed now

http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p634/argentumblade/DSC02279_zpscd4369b8.jpg (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/argentumblade/media/DSC02279_zpscd4369b8.jpg.html)

And the female:

http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p634/argentumblade/DSC02223_zps088adfe2.jpg (http://s1159.photobucket.com/user/argentumblade/media/DSC02223_zps088adfe2.jpg.html)

[Rod]

Here is a couple more types of golden based discus showing the halo for more comparisons. I hope you can see the difference with pigeon blood now. Also, if you look carefully at cozykeiths avatar, his discus is also a golden.

[Argentum]

Here is a couple more types of golden based discus showing the halo for more comparisons. I hope you can see the difference with pigeon blood now. Also, if you look carefully at cozykeiths avatar, his discus is also a golden.

Then I guess mine will be golden then ... thats cool

[Rod]

I would be asking Kenny. I really don't think the pic you are showing is a pearl diamond. Aside from golden based, they are also albino.

To me they look like regular pigeon based reds. Which is fine btw, some of my favourite discus are of this type. But if i am right, and they are just pigeons, then the cross with the brown you have will result in a lot of peppery pigeons.

[nc0gnet0]

This one looks like a pigeon blood:
http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p634/argentumblade/DSC02279_zpscd4369b8.jpg

While I think this one "might" be a golden.....is this what your referring to as a brown?

http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p634/argentumblade/DSC02638_zps1115fe36.jpg

I agree with Rod, the first picture doesn't look like any Pearl diamond I have ever seen. I did have an APD go orange on me, but even then he still looked like this: (mine was an albino)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhlq0OzBV7Y

If you look at my avatar, that is an albino pearl diamond that did not go orange. Here is a picture:

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/P8273058.jpg

[nc0gnet0]

I can show you some possible results from the pairing of an albino pearl diamond and a pigeon blood, I am just not sure what you have is in fact a pearl diamond (for your cross albino vs non-albino doesn't matter).

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?98216-Batch-2-2009-contest-fish(apd)-x-F1-(ogon-yellow-white-x-ARSG)

I would like to see a picture of your blue faced rose red, the picture in this thread doesn't look like a brown to me.
In the cross I did above, I did get some nice offspring, however, I did cull alot of less than desirable ones as well.There is nothing wrong with doing a cross like this as long as you are prepared to cull 150 or so fish to get to 10 good ones. If your intent is to sell the majority of the offspring, in that case I highly advise against it.

[Argentum]

I can show you some possible results from the pairing of an albino pearl diamond and a pigeon blood, I am just not sure what you have is in fact a pearl diamond (for your cross albino vs non-albino doesn't matter).

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?98216-Batch-2-2009-contest-fish(apd)-x-F1-(ogon-yellow-white-x-ARSG)

I would like to see a picture of your blue faced rose red, the picture in this thread doesn't look like a brown to me.
In the cross I did above, I did get some nice offspring, however, I did cull alot of less than desirable ones as well.There is nothing wrong with doing a cross like this as long as you are prepared to cull 150 or so fish to get to 10 good ones. If your intent is to sell the majority of the offspring, in that case I highly advise against it.

"blue faced rose red" Is the name I give to the red discus I posted in this thread, I did not refer to it as a brown.
I don't mind culling as long as there will be something interesting in between.

Gr8 job you have done in with the fry in the thread you posted ... They are nicely round and beefy

[nc0gnet0]

"blue faced rose red" Is the name I give to the red discus I posted in this thread, I did not refer to it as a brown.

IC, well, the confusion lies then in the name you gave the fish. A "red rose" or a "rose red" is indeed a brown based red......I did not realize this was a name in which you gave the fish.


-Rick

[Rod]

"blue faced rose red" Is the name I give to the red discus I posted in this thread, I did not refer to it as a brown.


That would be me calling it a brown :D Sorry about that, i call the name based on the genotype which is the important part from a breeders point of veiw, even though i recognize the phenotype is red.

[Argentum]

IC, well, the confusion lies then in the name you gave the fish. A "red rose" or a "rose red" is indeed a brown based red......I did not realize this was a name in which you gave the fish.

But you said you think it is a golden. I posted a pic to get an ID before and thats what most people suggested that it is a red rose.
Do you think it's golden? but it gets stress bars sometimes. I think this eliminates the chance of it being golden. am I correct?

-Rick


That would be me calling it a brown :D Sorry about that, i call the name based on the genotype which is the important part from a breeders point of veiw, even though i recognize the phenotype is red.

No problem mate, I will forgive you this time :D

[Icecube8422]

nice breed.
:)
sorry for the comment, just to post 11 comment before i can use the pm function. :)

[Argentum]

nice breed.
:)
sorry for the comment, just to post 11 comment before i can use the pm function. :)

No problem, your comment is welcome.

thx

[Argentum]

nice breed.
:)
sorry for the comment, just to post 11 comment before i can use the pm function. :)

No problem, your comment is welcome.

thx