What is the smallest adult discus size?

[Surfnturf]

What is the smallest adult discus size of anyone on the forum? I'm hoping to keep my juvies as small as possible without them being deformed. Any advice on how to do that? Why hasn't anyone come up with a dwarf discus? Not everyone wants a 12 inch monster growing out of the top of their aquarium.

Here's a photo of my two favorite wet pets. They are 2" now.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc307/StantonJ777/aquarium/C86AFE5A-F44C-49F0-8F82-C3D29F673268_zpstzzei6vk.jpg

[Surfnturf]

Here's a closer view.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc307/StantonJ777/aquarium/A04FD4FF-FFCF-4FE9-832E-D96E17BCBE4C_zpsfnhzdecp.jpg

[John_Nicholson]

"12 inch monster" Really? That would be like a 14 foot person. If you want a screwed up discus I am sure their are plenty of people that will gladly sell you their culls.

-john

[DiscusLoverJeff]

A tank full of runts? Not sure I get that. Why stunt your discus? It is not normal.

[Surfnturf]

Aren't culls usually deformed and of poor coloration?

[Ryan]

You've got a catch-22. If you provide the proper care they will grow to their full potential, anywhere from 5 - 6.5" (sometimes 7" if you're lucky), which is not what you're after. But if you want them to stay smaller, you basically have to give them sub-standard care, which will in turn increase your chances of deformed, sick, or dead fish. So you may get 3 - 4" adults but they will likely have giant eyes, odd shape, and a very short lifespan.

[Larry Grenier]

"12 inch monster" Really? That would be like a 14 foot person. If you want a screwed up discus I am sure their are plenty of people that will gladly sell you their culls.
-john
LOL, saw that one coming :-)

Intentionally stunting their growth is very contrary to everyone in this group.

[Surfnturf]

A tank full of runts? Not sure I get that. Why stunt your discus? It is not normal.

I wasn't talking about stunted or deformed fish.

[Ryan]

I wasn't talking about stunted or deformed fish.

But you are talking about stunted fish, whether you realize it or not. Anything less than average adult size is considered stunted. The smallest adult size is probably 4.5" if we take into account small females of heavily line-bred fancy strains (certain albino types, heavily spotted fish, etc.) but most would say the average adult starts at 5". Anything less than that and the fish would be considered stunted. There is no such thing as a race of dwarf discus.

[John_Nicholson]

LOL, saw that one coming :-)

Intentionally stunting their growth is very contrary to everyone in this group.

You should have seen what I wanted to post......I would have been banned for life....LOL..

-john

[Surfnturf]

You should have seen what I wanted to post......I would have been banned for life....LOL..

-john

And then what would you do. Lol.

[alcastro]

IMO any advise even as a joke would be bad, cruel , just by smaller fish.

[treemanone2003]

I thought I answered that on another forum when you explained that you wanted to purposely stunt them ?

[Rudustin]

Is this a joke??????? If it is it's a terrible one. Looking at your tank you are well on the road to keeping your wet pets small, stunted, deformed and probably dead in a few more months.

[bluelagoon]

If you like smaller discus just keep doing what you're doing.It's that easy.

[Len]

I didn't interpret the question the same way at all, and unless I misunderstand it's not a bad question at all. If the current "accepted standard adult size" has been the result of carefully breeding for size along with shape and other desirable factors what would make doing the same thing to obtain a smaller fish be bad? I'm not talking about stunting through negligence or poor husbandry, just breeding for a smaller size.


Is this a joke??????? If it is it's a terrible one. Looking at your tank you are well on the road to keeping your wet pets small, stunted, deformed and probably dead in a few more months.

That's an awful lot of insight offered from only seeing s small pictures. What did you base this on?

[XAnhLe]

I didn't interpret the question the same way at all, and unless I misunderstand it's not a bad question at all. If the current "accepted standard adult size" has been the result of carefully breeding for size along with shape and other desirable factors what would make doing the same thing to obtain a smaller fish be bad? I'm not talking about stunting through negligence or poor husbandry, just breeding for a smaller size.



The OP wanted a way to "raise" discus to be small, not breed them to be small, and I quote: "I'm hoping to keep my juvies as small as possible without them being deformed."

The question would be more valid if he asked about breeding dwarf discus instead of raising discus to be dwarf.





That's an awful lot of insight offered from only seeing s small pictures. What did you base this on?

By the look of the tank dimension, it is a 20G long tank with 2 discus. Based on my limited experience with discus, I would say 2 discus in a 20 gallon planted tank is a big no, even though I am a big fan of planted discus tank.

The discus are also seem to be stunted. Rudustin isn't wrong.

[Len]

That's really all speculation without getting more information. We don't know the OP's knowledge of how big or small discus are created. While it isn't my cup of tea to "create" a dwarf discus, I don't necessarily think huge discus are always desireable either. Be that as it may, I think the approach could have been better is some cases. Also although the OP may be open to critique of the fish, tank etc I didn;t see a request for it. A more hospitible greeting would have been

"Welcome to Simply..... can you tell us a little about your experience with discus, breeding or fish in general ..... if you would like some advice on husbandry etc we can certainly point you in the right direction" You get the point (I hope), but instead what we have is a new member who can potentially feel insulted by the way he was received and be less inclined to post. Is that really what we are striving for here? In light of the efforts you may have noticed recently to engage members, the answer should be a resounding no.

[monching]

That's really all speculation without getting more information. We don't know the OP's knowledge of how big or small discus are created. While it isn't my cup of tea to "create" a dwarf discus, I don't necessarily think huge discus are always desireable either. Be that as it may, I think the approach could have been better is some cases. Also although the OP may be open to critique of the fish, tank etc I didn;t see a request for it. A more hospitible greeting would have been

"Welcome to Simply..... can you tell us a little about your experience with discus, breeding or fish in general ..... if you would like some advice on husbandry etc we can certainly point you in the right direction" You get the point (I hope), but instead what we have is a new member who can potentially feel insulted by the way he was received and be less inclined to post. Is that really what we are striving for here? In light of the efforts you may have noticed recently to engage members, the answer should be a resounding no.

Very well said:)

[Skip]

German blue rams could make a fantastic sub. For discus. They are dwarf cichlids

[XAnhLe]

That's really all speculation without getting more information. We don't know the OP's knowledge of how big or small discus are created. While it isn't my cup of tea to "create" a dwarf discus, I don't necessarily think huge discus are always desireable either. Be that as it may, I think the approach could have been better is some cases. Also although the OP may be open to critique of the fish, tank etc I didn;t see a request for it. A more hospitible greeting would have been

"Welcome to Simply..... can you tell us a little about your experience with discus, breeding or fish in general ..... if you would like some advice on husbandry etc we can certainly point you in the right direction" You get the point (I hope), but instead what we have is a new member who can potentially feel insulted by the way he was received and be less inclined to post. Is that really what we are striving for here? In light of the efforts you may have noticed recently to engage members, the answer should be a resounding no.

I'm not into criticizing one's fish if he is not asking for it. Just want to say that Rud had a point.

Being that I got into this hobby not too long ago, I don't mind criticism even if I am not asking for it. Sometimes it brings a valid point that I haven't thought about. I don't know if this is the case for OP.

I think other members reaction to OP is due to the way he worded his post or the way they interpret his post.

Of course we want more members to enjoy what we have here, the fountain of knowledge and experience that this site stores along with many great discus enthusiasts, and I'm gladly trying to recruit people from other social media to come and join.

[Altum Nut]

This type of question is not often asked on how to keep Discus small...more so the majority of suggestions are asked about the complete opposite on how to grow them out big. My take is that runts may not look stunted and still live out many years without issues.
Looking at your photos...my guess is that the pigeon has not yet filled in it's pattern and the turk may already be a runt but if that is what you are after...then it's your tank.
To answer your question...you cannot decide on what size a discus will grow out to be if you want a healthy Discus in the end. There are some smaller sized bull-dog discus...not my cup of tea but something you may be after.
We don't know what your after and is this the only tank you have or plan to only keep.

...Ralph

[DISCUS STU]

You don't have to worry about stunting your fish, sorry but the one I saw looks like it's on it's way.

Getting fish not to grow to their full potential is the easier part, getting them to grow to their full size, to be healthy and vigorous, that's what takes work and understanding of the requirements of these fish.

If someone isn't willing to dedicate themselves to keeping Discus as they should be kept the results will usually be the same; crummy, sickly, darkened, and dwarfed fish.

[DISCUS STU]

I didn't interpret the question the same way at all, and unless I misunderstand it's not a bad question at all. If the current "accepted standard adult size" has been the result of carefully breeding for size along with shape and other desirable factors what would make doing the same thing to obtain a smaller fish be bad? I'm not talking about stunting through negligence or poor husbandry, just breeding for a smaller size.

That's an awful lot of insight offered from only seeing s small pictures. What did you base this on?

Back in 1992 I believe Jack Wattley's book "Discus for the Perfectionist" mentioned someone out of Chicago I think, with the caption reading, "so and so's Dwarf Discus". The implication being that these fish were deliberately bred that way. I'll try to dig up the book and the name a little later.

[John_Nicholson]

Your talking about Dr. Reeves. He was a vet that talked of doing this back in the late '80s or early '90s. Back then it went over about as well as it did here.....like a turd in a punch bowl.


-john

[DISCUS STU]

Your talking about Dr. Reeves. He was a vet that talked of doing this back in the late '80s or early '90s. Back then it went over about as well as it did here.....like a turd in a punch bowl.


-john

Think you're probably right on that. Don't see the point.

[Tankster]

Why hasn't anyone come up with a dwarf discus? Not everyone wants a 12 inch monster growing out of the top of their aquarium. http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc307/StantonJ777/aquarium/C86AFE5A-F44C-49F0-8F82-C3D29F673268_zpstzzei6vk.jpg

I am assume you ask because you have a smaller aquarium and either don't have the space or resources to get a larger one. - your question is asking how you can keep a fish small that is supposed to be big.

Because it is not natural. To pose your question in a way that might help to understand why all the people responding, are responding the way they are.

Look at this way - you love German Shepherds and have to have one but you live in a small 150 square foot apartment. You go ahead and buy a German Shepherd and go to the top German Shepherd forum (where the best breeders go) and ask how you can keep your German Shepherd small so it fits in your apartment.



I wasn't talking about stunted or deformed fish.

But it is what you asked. A discus that is not allowed to grow to its natural size is considered stunted. Stunting comes along with deformity - big eyes not proportional to the body is one example of that. Another would be a football shape rather than the round shape of healthy adult discus.


Aren't culls usually deformed and of poor coloration?

culls are also undersized fish. There is not always an explanation or understanding as to why this happens. I have 8 discus in a 75 gallon tank. Very well cared for in a bare bottom grow out tank (my goal is big fish). I have one fish that is only 3 inches where all of the others are 4.5 and approaching 5. He is a poorly formed and somewhat ugly fish. I will keep this fish as a hero fish to put in the quarantine tank at the end of a quarantine on dither fish. He is a sacrificial lamb. If he dies, no big deal. If he lives, his usefulness has ended. Will I be able to kill him after all that time, watching him fight to establish is place in the tank and winning the underdog survival award? I don't know, probably not but he won't go in the big display tank.

[brewmaster15]

I'll take it another way here... with a straight up answer...

5-6" TL Thats often the size we see in a Discus that are kept fairly well, fed average amounts of food during critical periods of growth and given marginal to adequate amounts of clean water. You can have smaller ones as adults that can look fairly normal as far as shape go (4.5-5"), but would indicate they have a genetic problem or were stunted, or possibly hormoned at a young age.

The problem with the question is generally we aim to raise the biggest and healthiest fish we can, by doing so we will be giving them lots of food and clean water... The only way to keep a discus small is to not give them adequate care.... which is something that goes against the core foundation of SimplyDiscus, and rattles it members.

The tank you have is a beautiful planted tank...But the honest fact is its too small for discus. If you can do the same with a 75 gal tank and 4-5 discus with proper care, you would have a thing of beauty.... In that tank you have set up, you'd be better off with rams and cardinal tetras or similar. It will look more balenced and natural.

Just my opinion,
Al

[Surfnturf]

There are plenty of miniature dogs being bred and I know I've seen other dwarf fish. Wasn't sure how they came about. There are probably a lot of people that like discus that don't have the space for a 55+ gallon tank. To answer some of your questions I've had the tank (20 gallon long) since July and I've had the turquoise discus since November 25 and the pigeon since dec 25. Thank you to those of you that took the time to answer my questions and to those that post criticism and negative comments, why are you even on this forum? P.s. That is a rhetorical question... Just think about it.

[Skip]

if discus can get 8" plus..

if you get yours to 5".. it would seem to me.. you got the dwarf that you would want.. :)
never really thought about it like that before.. LOL

[Quintin]

In my personal experience have never had any stunted fish survive long, bare in mind have not kept discus long.I would sugest if you have 200L of water get 6 discus strains that Tend to be smaller not stunted (new exotic strains ask some sponsers here im sure they will tell you wich are more likely to be giants and standard not so big) and take good care of them.you will be fine.but maintenace is key as discus can not survive without it.good luck