Do I need water changes ?

[Reesj]

I have a 50 gallon planted discus tank with 6 discus(2.5 to 3 inch) 9 neons 3 corydoras (1 died) and 1 kribensis. I'm feeding them Blood worms flakes and small sinking granules for corys ! Aqadviser says stocking level is like 90% even considering grown fish which they are not!
I'm not feeding beef heart or anything that gets my water polluted. I can see the water quality is kept very good as I feed 3-4 times per day small potions only and from my experience from about 5 year past aquarium experience. However I do not own or have ever used any testing kits. They are not that common in Sri Lanka and also quite expensive. So please don;t tell me to check the parameters :D
Question:-
How often should I Change my water even if the water quality is good at least visibly? I'm asking mainly from people who have had experience feeding there discus non beef heart food. Specially if possible in a planted tank as they absorb most of the stuff also!

As the Discus are still juveniles I tend to do water changes now 1-2 times per week. My water condition still seemed better than the breeder I bought the fish from even on the days I do my water changes atm:confused:!

[JulieK]

I just put six discus......one three inches and the rest four in a bb 37 gallon tank. My ammonia levels are going up as I have a much larger bio load in there now and am going through a mini cycle. I would at the very least be checking for ammonia and changing water at least half daily. Just my two cents I have not been a discus fish keeper long.

[we4wieners]

I used to do water changes every 3-4 days. I started doing daily wc's or every other day at the least, over the last month. I noticed a significant difference in color and behavior. I changed my wc's at the advice of the group. It has made a big difference.

[Altum Nut]

[QUOTE=Reesj;1136996]
Question:-
How often should I Change my water even if the water quality is good at least visibly?

Not sure you are going to a positive answer your looking for. The fact that your not feeding B/H does not mean your water will not foul. Your w/c scheduled will not support sufficient growth for your Discus or offer water conditions to keep them healthy. How did you evaluate your water conditions are better then the breeders...was it just visible appearance?
I would also consider changing the food your feeding as Discus do require a higher protein diet. Without knowing your water parameters, the only answer you may get is more frequent w/c's.
Others may offer other suggestions but this is all I have.

...Ralph

[John_Nicholson]

In a planted tank...if you want good growth and healthy fish...about 75% a day. Otherwise you will see what you think are healthy fish for 2 or 3 months and then you will be posting on how your fish "all of a sudden" got sick.

-john

[Jnotjane]

There is a reason why the mantra of this group is "do more water changes". It is crucial for growth. I've learned this through experience while growing out angelfish. There was a marked difference in the growth rates of the fish I did daily large volume water changes with and those I simply tossed into my 90 gallon planted display tank. The fish in the bare-bottom grow-out tank with daily wcs grew like crazy, while the ones in the planted tank that only got a 50%-60% water change every couple of weeks showed almost no growth and eventually were stunted.

Yes your tested parameters show your water is "good" and it appears clean. But consider that there are additional impurities that are not tested that continue to build up over time. Also consider the wild setting in a river or stream. The water is never completely stagnate and is constantly replaced with fresh water. This is the scenario you need to try and recreate in you tank as you grow your fish out.

also, your young fish need the added protein from the beef heart. doing daily wc's and cleaning the remaining food off the (bare) bottom of the tank will compensate for any "fouling" you may see from the beef heart.

[Jnotjane]

What I strongly advise is to move our young discus to a standard grow-out tank. Once they reach about 5" in a few months (provided you keep up with water changes), you can put them back into your main display tank.

[Reesj]

Not sure you are going to a positive answer your looking for. The fact that your not feeding B/H does not mean your water will not foul. Your w/c scheduled will not support sufficient growth for your Discus or offer water conditions to keep them healthy. How did you evaluate your water conditions are better then the breeders...was it just visible appearance?
I would also consider changing the food your feeding as Discus do require a higher protein diet. Without knowing your water parameters, the only answer you may get is more frequent w/c's.
Others may offer other suggestions but this is all I have.

...Ralph

I have now been to him 2 times and stayed around hour each and from appearance it seems so! Also my water looks pristine clear after even 2-3 days of cleaning. I'm think you can not compare water changes if feeding beef heart MIX vs other food. Also man I have gone hunting for discus food now like 3 days to all aquariums around here and tried out many stuff to feed. ATM they eat one type of flake and bloodworm only. But one place said they will have another type of discus granules by week or 2. I know the breeder I got fish from feed exclusively beef-heart on bare bottoms. His recipe is beef heart, shrimp, carrots, vitamins,animal gelatine.

Here is a fun fact though:- Last time I went to him, bought 2 malbro reds from a litter. One of them was in the top 3 sizes on the tank and another was a runt. I bought the runt considering for the pair I paid quite cheap( I might later give him away if I need his tank space). After about 8-9 days I went to return one fish and bought another malbro red from same litter (Biggest fish there or at least top3). When I came home it was clear that during the time my malbro red has grown a lot bigger on my food than once that was there. BUT the one I bought home earlier is almost pure white loosing what ever colour he might have had. But the one I bought home recently is almost light orenge all-round. A huge colour difference. Got to say though one I had home was the greediest of the whole lot. TLDR:- Seems my health discus are growing fast but with no colours!

[Reesj]

What I strongly advise is to move our young discus to a standard grow-out tank. Once they reach about 5" in a few months (provided you keep up with water changes), you can put them back into your main display tank.

Not really an option man :(. Got just one tank and doing it as a hobby. To top it off I'm living at my parents till I tie the knot! No way I can put any more tanks.

[Larry Bugg]

You just can't "look" at water and tell that it is clean or not!!!!! It doesn't work that way. Also you can't seem to understand that ANY food will foul the water. The fact that it isn't beef heart doesn't make that much difference. It has been proven here time after time that in order to properly grow out discus they require very clean water and usually equates to daily water changes. Don't want to sound harsh but those are the facts.

[Altum Nut]

As for food choices, here is a top breeder and SD sponsor just a short swim across the Indian Ocean from you...LOL OK a long swim who can ship you his own developed Discus Granules.... http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?112328-DiscusFORREST-AQUAbites-Premium-Grade-Granules

The fact that the breeder sold you a runt regardless...does not speak well for that breeder if that is what you want to call him. Once you tie the knot...consider looking into getting healthy Discus from Forrest and take a boat across...might save you on shipping...LOL

...Ralph

[Reesj]

As for food choices, here is a top breeder and SD sponsor just a short swim across the Indian Ocean from you...LOL OK a long swim who can ship you his own developed Discus Granules.... http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?112328-DiscusFORREST-AQUAbites-Premium-Grade-Granules

The fact that the breeder sold you a runt regardless...does not speak well for that breeder if that is what you want to call him. Once you tie the knot...consider looking into getting healthy Discus from Forrest and take a boat across...might save you on shipping...LOL

...Ralph

Thanks man! I will try to get some of those food and check how it is! Yes as I said he is a breeder and I got them quite cheap ($6 for pair. Although you cant; compare prices here and in USA as cost of living and earnings is very low)! Unlike a shop breeders tend to do that and they house all different once. Good thing with one like him though is I was also able to choose 2 best from one his litter as he did not had time to separate them in to different sizes. The big discus from him also is very expensive (up to about $90) although you can buy most small discus for dirt cheap prices. You can pick 1 inch fish for like $1.5 although he is not that fond to sell in small numbers.

[Reesj]

Thanks man! I will try to get some of those food and check how it is! Yes as I said he is a breeder and I got them quite cheap ($6 for pair. Although you cant; compare prices here and in USA as cost of living and earnings is very low)! Unlike a shop breeders tend to do that and they house all different once. Good thing with one like him though is I was also able to choose 2 best from one his litter as he did not had time to separate them in to different sizes. The big discus from him also is very expensive (up to about $90) although you can buy most small discus for dirt cheap prices. You can pick 1 inch fish for like $1.5 although he is not that fond to sell in small numbers.

Hi man I got the Forrest DF3 food today. The fish does not seems to want to eat them :( Them or the discus bits I bought that says will enhance the colour of DISCUS. They are having non of them. Today morning I gave them the DF3 and even on mid day and they don't even show a clue that its food. They would rather eat the algae from plants and tree trunk than eat them. Every other fish though (tetras corrys) seems to love them though.
I'm inclined to stop the starving and give them their dried blood worm in the afternoon as they are still juvis growing!

[Altum Nut]

Don't expect all discus to eat new foods offered the very first time but some will.
Keep trying every morning but I suspect your other community fish chow down on it and Discus don't have any time to graze and at least try it.
This is why grow-outs should be on their own in a BB tank.

...Ralph