Harmony Discus Ghost based,what would you breed it to?

[Bill63SG]

I grew out some harmony discus,ghost based,http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb328/Bill63SG/calicos/m_crabgrass005_zps16f994f1.jpg (http://s1200.photobucket.com/user/Bill63SG/media/calicos/m_crabgrass005_zps16f994f1.jpg.html)http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb328/Bill63SG/calicos/m_crabgrass001_zpsa69d44d4.jpg (http://s1200.photobucket.com/user/Bill63SG/media/calicos/m_crabgrass001_zpsa69d44d4.jpg.html) I purchased from Mike Beals,and I ended up with what looks like 5 females.Im trying to find another bacth to grow out,good luck,and in the mean time,any siggestions with what to try and pair them up with would be appreciated.PS,old picture,I no longer have the 2 smallest,so it 5.

[Keith Perkins]

Safe to say you have a least one laying eggs? Curious what they might do with my male RGD.

[nc0gnet0]

First things that come to mind......

Snow leopard
Red Gold Diamond
Red White
White Butterfly
Ogon yellow white

Be very curious to see what Rod has to say. Be very fun to play with and look forward to seeing the results.........jealous even!

:)

-Rick

[Bill63SG]

I have the male snow leopard.

[warblad79]

someone told, the cross between red cover and ghost discus the outcome is super red cover.

[Rod]

Be very curious to see what Rod has to say.



Well, my experience with ghosts is a blue form called silver dreamer from years ago. They were one of the 1st fancy ghosts, they bred true. Never crossed them or know of any breeders who have so never knew how the gene worked. But i do have Martin Ng's excellent Discus Catalogue and he explains how these color forms are made. The golden color comes from crossing classic golden with ghost, both the golden and the ghost is controlled by recessive genes, so this means no ghosts or goldens in the F1. F2 will produce a small number of ghosts that will also have the golden gene. Then cross this "golden ghost" with a golden sun (in the photos it looks just like an RGD which is also golden based). No Ghosts again, but F2 and they should appear with both red and golden colors. He calls them Nebula, but they look identical to Bills ghosts.
As for suggestions to cross, well i would go for golden based reds like RGD, or i would go for brown based solid reds like virgin red or red cover. Martin Ng also explains how the calico ghost was created and in that case it was with golden ghost and virgin red. Very nice discus.

[nc0gnet0]

Well, my experience with ghosts is a blue form called silver dreamer from years ago. They were one of the 1st fancy ghosts, they bred true. Never crossed them or know of any breeders who have so never knew how the gene worked. But i do have Martin Ng's excellent Discus Catalogue and he explains how these color forms are made. The golden color comes from crossing classic golden with ghost, both the golden and the ghost is controlled by recessive genes, so this means no ghosts or goldens in the F1. F2 will produce a small number of ghosts that will also have the golden gene. Then cross this "golden ghost" with a golden sun (in the photos it looks just like an RGD which is also golden based). No Ghosts again, but F2 and they should appear with both red and golden colors. He calls them Nebula, but they look identical to Bills ghosts.
As for suggestions to cross, well i would go for golden based reds like RGD, or i would go for brown based solid reds like virgin red or red cover. Martin Ng also explains how the calico ghost was created and in that case it was with golden ghost and virgin red. Very nice discus.

Excellent, I am assuming that his harmony are homozygous for both the golden and the ghost genes. With that in mind and if he wants to attempt to try to get any tri-colors, going with a golden based snow leopard or RGD, and then breed the f1's back to the parent female ghost. But, seeing how he has 5 females, why not just do both, a golden base male as well as a VR or rose red male. :)


-Rick

[Bill63SG]

And I have a rose red male and a rose red/ss cross male.Now for the tank space,lol.I also have albino red covers,but so far to my untrained eye,they also appear to be female.

[Keith Perkins]

I seem to recall someone here from Des Plaines giving away a 55 with a 20 for a sump.

[Bill63SG]

I seem to recall someone here from Des Plaines giving away a 55 with a 20 for a sump.

Lol,maybe I should re-phrase.tank space can also mean no room for tanks.

[rickztahone]

I have always loved this strain for being so unique. I posted a few (not all ghost?) in the strains list:
845688456984570

[nc0gnet0]

I have always loved this strain for being so unique. I posted a few (not all ghost?) in the strains list:
845688456984570

I believe those are all in fact ghosts, at least so far in as much as they all have ghost genetics (using the term "ghost" like you would "pigeon blood").

[rickztahone]

I believe those are all in fact ghosts, at least so far in as much as they all have ghost genetics (using the term "ghost" like you would "pigeon blood").

I agree. They are depicted as Nebula/calico/ghost which I believed to be one in the same, but now with Rod's explanation, maybe they may have got to this end result by other means? I am really bad at genetics so I leave that to you guys, lol.

[Bill63SG]

I have always loved this strain for being so unique. I posted a few (not all ghost?) in the strains list:
845688456984570
When I first got mine they looked like the last pic,and now look more like the middle.

[Rod]

Excellent, I am assuming that his harmony are homozygous for both the golden and the ghost genes.

Yes, exactly. But i wonder why we don't see these types more frequently. They are certainly beautiful. Perhaps the golden and red colors do not transfer in many specimens, and most of them look like plain ghosts. Whenever i imported them, they were only ever available in very small numbers.


With that in mind and if he wants to attempt to try to get any tri-colors, going with a golden based snow leopard or RGD, and then breed the f1's back to the parent female ghost.

Yes, thats a great point. By breeding the f1 back with a ghost variety, a much larger percentage will be of the desired type. I wonder what the non ghosts would look like? They should all be golden based, but i wonder how the red color would be affected.

[Rod]

I also have albino red covers,but so far to my untrained eye,they also appear to be female.

Darn, that would be a great cross. Hopefully you are wrong and a boy shows himself.

[nc0gnet0]

Yes, thats a great point. By breeding the f1 back with a ghost variety, a much larger percentage will be of the desired type. I wonder what the non ghosts would look like? They should all be golden based, but i wonder how the red color would be affected.

Be fun to find out, I am assuming the non-ghosts (or more actually the ghost intermediates) would look like RGD's or snow leopards?

[Rod]

I have always loved this strain for being so unique. I posted a few (not all ghost?) in the strains list:
845688456984570

To my eye 1 and 3 are the same breed, Nebula. Number 2 is a golden ghost. A calico ghost has only a little golden color, but has a lot more red spotting/splattering throughout the body.

[Bill63SG]

Yes, exactly. But i wonder why we don't see these types more frequently. They are certainly beautiful. Perhaps the golden and red colors do not transfer in many specimens, and most of them look like plain ghosts. Whenever i imported them, they were only ever available in very small numbers.





On Kennys last shipment he had some ghost's which I tried to get,but they were already sold out.In my conversation with him he said that's exactly what happens.Small percentage harmony and the rest ghost's.Thats why the price tag on the harmony's.

[nc0gnet0]

On Kennys last shipment he had some ghost's which I tried to get,but they were already sold out.In my conversation with him he said that's exactly what happens.Small percentage harmony and the rest ghost's.Thats why the price tag on the harmony's.

I would not be surprised if Male Harmony's are quite rare, just like we see with the golden lss. That would mean that the breeder is constantly working with intermediates to get the desired results..........

[Rod]

Be fun to find out, I am assuming the non-ghosts (or more actually the ghost intermediates) would look like RGD's or snow leopards?

I was thinking they would look RGD, but the red color could change quite a lot.

[Bill63SG]

I would not be surprised if Male Harmony's are quite rare, just like we see with the golden lss. That would mean that the breeder is constantly working with intermediates to get the desired results..........

I know one thing for sure,they're rare in Naperville.