Wanting planted...NEED ADVICE PLEASE!!

[pgrhodes1]

Hi All,

I've always wanted a planted tank and I think I'm ready....maybe...sort of...anyway your help would be greatly appreciated.

My current setup:

Established tank running for 2 years
8 adult Discus in a 92 gal corner display tank. They are BEAUTIFUL if I say so myself...:)
Fluval FX6 canister filter
A little sand on the bottom
Fake plants on drift wood
Water change 50% AM and PM with aged water
Feed frozen BW, FDBW, Tetra Color Granulas

Here are my plans:

My tank is already drilled so I'd replace the Fluval with an ECO system, miracle mud refugium 30 x 12 x 16
Install an under gravel filter with a powerhead. The water would be filtered by 2 aquaponic boxes planted with lucky bamboo on top of aquarium.
Small river rock for substate
Snails for cleanup crew
CO2 system
Plants recommended on here

If anyone is willing, I'd pay for detailed drawings and instructions on how to plumb a refugium. Otherwise I'll have to pay a local guy to come out and do it.

Thanks in advance.

Penny

[ericNH]

That sounds very ambitious! Also probably stunning if done right :) Please keep us updated as you progress; I for one am very interested. Those plans sound magnificent to me.

[Solid]

That sounds awesome! I've never used a UG filter in a planted tank before, so I am not sure about that. For a substrate I would recommend sand or a planted tank substrate like eco-complete or ADA aquasoil. Because larger substrates allow fish poop and uneaten food to get down in the crevices, with a sand substrate it just sits on top and is easier to vacuum up. ADA Aquasoil is probably the best for growing plants, but can cause ammonia spikes for a few days when it is fresh.

If you keep up your water changes, I'm sure your fish will stay happy, but you will need to add fertilizers for the plants because plants love fish poop. I would read up on the Estimated Index (EI) method and recommend using dry ferts as for large tanks it is the least expensive. you can buy dry fert packages from greenleaf aquarium (http://greenleafaquariums.com/)s or from some plantedtank.net users (Nilocg (http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=816649&highlight=dry+ferts)).

The last thing which you did not really cover is your lighting. That is important to know to recommend plants. With powerful lights you can grow more variety of plants (and faster) but then you need more Co2 and more ferts. With weaker lights you can still grow some nice plants but you may need to use less ferts and might not even need Co2.

[5ZVP]

I would not use an UG filter in a planted tank. Be sure to use plant substrate instead of just gravel. Consider your available light and buy plants accordingly or vice versa. I think planted tanks with discus is a great combo.

[RodneyL001]

most people on this site would probably not recommend a UGF, but some very experienced plant growers love them. I have a ugf in my 125gal and no problems to report. most appear to be worried about nitrates exploding with a ugf, because of the waste accumulating below the plates. Just keep up a good vacuuming routine and you should be fine. I also have a tank without a ugf, and my nitrates are running a little higher in it. but of course, that isn't a true scientific comparison.

[pcsb23]

The theory with UGFs and planted tanks is that the filter pulls the water borne ferts into the substrate and thus magically makes it available to the plants. It doesn't quite work like that in practice. Also the majority of plants take up ferts far more efficiently through their leaves. I'd skip the UGF in the main because I think the uplift looks ugly. Also if a dead spot develops under one that has been in there a while it can get nasty pretty quick, if you then reverse flow it - the nasty can get in the water column. They are difficult to maintain, though most who use them don't maintain them ...

I'm guessing the intention is to have your discus in this tank? As they are adults you should be ok but ...

I really would not use small river rocks as substrate, it would probably be one of the last substrates I'd choose tbh - I'd rather use gravel than that. It is better to use a sand type of substrate, whether you choose to use an enriched one or not is up to you and budget as some are fiercely expensive. The plants will root better in it and it will be easier to maintain.

As for your clean up crew, again snails would be low down on my list, they can be vectors for pathogens and there is no effective way I know of to quarantine them. Shrimp are a better clean up crew ime along with maybe some nice corries (sterbai take some beating imo).

As to plants it will be governed by what sort of lighting you have as some lights need more light than others, that too will govern how much additional CO2 you may need to add. Which then governs how much additional NPK + Trace ...

Just some food for though, running even a low tech tank takes far more skill than keeping discus :)

[dprais1]

The theory with UGFs and planted tanks is that the filter pulls the water borne ferts into the substrate and thus magically makes it available to the plants. It doesn't quite work like that in practice. Also the majority of plants take up ferts far more efficiently through their leaves. I'd skip the UGF in the main because I think the uplift looks ugly. Also if a dead spot develops under one that has been in there a while it can get nasty pretty quick, if you then reverse flow it - the nasty can get in the water column. They are difficult to maintain, though most who use them don't maintain them ...

I'm guessing the intention is to have your discus in this tank? As they are adults you should be ok but ...

I really would not use small river rocks as substrate, it would probably be one of the last substrates I'd choose tbh - I'd rather use gravel than that. It is better to use a sand type of substrate, whether you choose to use an enriched one or not is up to you and budget as some are fiercely expensive. The plants will root better in it and it will be easier to maintain.

As for your clean up crew, again snails would be low down on my list, they can be vectors for pathogens and there is no effective way I know of to quarantine them. Shrimp are a better clean up crew ime along with maybe some nice corries (sterbai take some beating imo).

As to plants it will be governed by what sort of lighting you have as some lights need more light than others, that too will govern how much additional CO2 you may need to add. Which then governs how much additional NPK + Trace ...

Just some food for though, running even a low tech tank takes far more skill than keeping discus :)

I've had a few successful planted tanks. I would not recommend an UGF as well. Sand works very well and prevents most debris from collecting in it. Those expensive plant substrates are not needed IMO, sand and some root tabs will work wonders. The root tabs will provide all the needed nutrients to the plants plus you can still change large amounts of water without harming those plants or robbing them of nutrients.

Snails are a nightmare that no one believes in.

Cories will do a great job of eating some leftover food, but, and this is the reason I have them, they smooth out the sand and make it very appealing. I don't like the sand to look obtrusive and take away from the fish. In fact I got albino cories to blend in with the white sand.

There are some plants that just won't do well, I say forget them and choose plants that will do well, there are plenty out there.

You can buy hundreds of root tabs for the price of those expensive substrates. Save your money.

[pgrhodes1]

Thank you all for your replies. Wonderful information on here.

[RodneyL001]

Well,I think there was some good advise, I'm no scientist so, I always accept the very experienced advise I read here, I usually don't even mention my ugf, because I know most people don"t like using them. For most people they appear to be old technology. I have been at this since the 70's. It appears that is when they were popular. Some guru's swear by them. I do know some of my plants in the tank with the ugf appear to be out performing my other tank without the ugf. And the tank without the ugf has fertilized substrate. I have no real explanation for that. They do require more work. If I was starting over, I probably would go without the ugf, because most advise is against using them. In closing, I'll say, there is more than one way to skin a cat, not that I am recommending skinning a kitty. :)

[Wahter]

Definitely skip the UGF. Over time, they just collect gunk, plus plant roots can get tangled in the slits of the plates and they (the UGF) can make adding fertilizer tabs a mess. You don't need a refugium either. I'd skip the fake plants on the driftwood and use real plants such as various Anubias plants on the drift wood instead. Other plants you can tie onto driftwood include Java Fern (Microsorum), African Water Fern (Bolbitus), and various mosses (such as Vesicularia 'Christmas'). These are all lower light plants too (here is some more info about all of the plants I mentioned)

Anubias
http://tropica.com/en/plants/plantdetails/Anubiasbarterivar.barteri%28101A%29/4551

Java Fern
http://tropica.com/en/plants/plantdetails/Microsorumpteropus%28008%29/4408

African Water Fern
http://tropica.com/en/plants/plantdetails/4406/4406

Christmas moss
http://tropica.com/en/plants/plantdetails/Vesiculariadubyana%27Christmas%27%28003ATC%29/4396