Air Stones vs Surface Skimmers

[nausky]

Trying to figure out if a surface skimmer would be suitable to replace a large air stone wall.

The setup:

105 Gallon (open top) Discus display tank, 2 Marineland c-360s (100 gallon rating x2)

Hoping someone who understands oxygen exchange and surface agitation and how they relate to the overall health of an aquarium could spare their wisdom. My tank is very wide, so I have the outlets on my filters pointed downward to help the water circulation. Whenever I had them pointed at the surface, I developed cyanobacteria all along the first 6 inches of my aquarium because it was stagnant in that area. The cyano went away after I turned them.

But with no surface agitation at all, a milky film was developing over the top of my tank. I read that this shouldn’t happen to a properly maintained aquarium, but it was. This tank gets 50% WCs every other day and the sand is always vacuumed 100% on every WC, which wasn’t enough to keep it away. Not the best regimen but these are all adult discus.

I bought a giant bubble wall to do the agitation for me and the film problems disappeared, but this brings a lot of petty issues that I hate dealing with. This is a display tank in the center of my house, one that I am very proud of, so I want for it to look good and be relatively quiet. I hate the sound of air pumps and bubbles. The bubbles shoot water all over my light fixtures, leaving hard water stains that I have to scrub off every other day. Not to mention I think the look of an air stone wall cheapens my tank.

Would a device like the Eheim Skim 350 (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=27119) be an OK replacement for the air stone? Or would the air stone still create a much healthier environment since it has greater surface agitation? Alternatively, are there any other things I could try? Thanks a lot!

[dpboyer]

Have you tried angling the pump return more at the surface to cause some strong rippling/agitation on the surface? if you have 2 c-360 you should be able to create enough surface agitation to have no need for an air stone. I have never had luck with surface skimmers (they are always too finicky for me).

Daniel

[nc0gnet0]

spraybars

[pitdogg2]

1. it will not get rid of the film just move it around more. When I remove water in my tank the first 50% I turn my gravel cleaner upside down to remove that layer the best I can. I have a BB tank so sometimes 100% of my water change is this way as I remove all waste each day. I do a 50%-75% WC every other day. I also have my outputs from my Magnum350 and XP3 both pointed up at the surface to create a riffle effect. I also have a Hydor Koralia pump that is rated at 750gal also moves water across the surface. I placed it at the middle of the end about 3" below the surface to move water across the whole tank with the output of the Magnum350. The XP3 is at the other end it splits off to Bio-wheels and the rest outputs into the stream from the other end to help push waste back to the magnum.

I also looked at those skimmers and felt they were to small to do much in my 75gal tanks. Both tanks have the same set-up, same lights and same food fed same everything. It is amazing how different they both are from each other. One tank has 8 rummy nose tetra's, One 9 RNT's. Both have Discus one has a growing pair 1yo the other has 3 growing Discus about 10 mo old. So as you can see pretty similar. BUT VERY different at the same time.

[Chaz88]

spraybars

I agree. I prefer spray bars to air stones in a display tank. If you cannot buy one for your filter they are not hard to make out of PVC.

[Loosir]

I have a circulation pump that blows along the surface of the water. I've also set my heaters which are positioned horizontal so they wont have eggs laid on them at the surface. This does four things for me.
1) It pulls cold water up and runs it over the heater to warm up
2) It keeps the heater running until the temp is right as heaters have sensors which can shut the heater off if there's too little water movement
3) Keeps my surface scum free
4) Circulates that O2 rich water from the top all around the tank. I don't not have air stones or an air pump.
!!Disclaimer, I'm still new at this with less then a years XP!! trust those who've done this a lot.

85895

[pitdogg2]

I would move that heater down to the middle at least. The convection of the heat will push up so to speak. With it so close to the top it stay's too warm at the top IMO. You also might want to remove the one suction on the heater element and move the other to the end. I have had heaters crack where the suction cup is on the element glass itself. I have my heater just above the bottom about 2" off the bottom.

[Loosir]

I would move that heater down to the middle at least. The convection of the heat will push up so to speak. With it so close to the top it stay's too warm at the top IMO. You also might want to remove the one suction on the heater element and move the other to the end. I have had heaters crack where the suction cup is on the element glass itself. I have my heater just above the bottom about 2" off the bottom.
Thanks Ivan, I always appreciate feedback!
I'll try that bracket arrangement. My only thought is these are 300W so they are heavy and wont stay horizontal if I don't have both ends secured.
I've had the heaters at the bottom and the middle already but I'm actually having problems with my fish getting burned, they're pretty active and swim about and bum into them a lot, also they look for things to hide against while I scrub the sides. This has actually worked out the best so far.
The circulation pump works fine for distributing the heat, that black cord to the left is the probe to my digital thermometer set at the bottom of the tank, temp is what it's supposed to be.
Thanks

[pitdogg2]

I understand completely. My 250 sits diagonal with its bottom on the bottom of the tank. If you move one of those cups to the very end it could give some support. I throw away the Eheim factory bracket away I find better cups made by Marineland. They used to be Visi-therm you can still order Visi-therm "marineland" suction cups and I feel they are superior to most others on the market. They do fit tight around the glass but I have never had any problems at all. Either way if it works for you then by all means do what works.

I have never had a fish get burned by my heater.

[Chaz88]

I've had the heaters at the bottom and the middle already but I'm actually having problems with my fish getting burned

I solved this problem with an inline heater canister. You can use any heater of the proper diameter in it, so far have only run across a couple very thin heaters that would not fit. I have a 300w in mine. It keeps clutter out of the tank and solves the problem of having enough water circulation around it.

[rickztahone]

I would move that heater down to the middle at least. The convection of the heat will push up so to speak. With it so close to the top it stay's too warm at the top IMO. You also might want to remove the one suction on the heater element and move the other to the end. I have had heaters crack where the suction cup is on the element glass itself. I have my heater just above the bottom about 2" off the bottom.

This is good advice. The way you currently have your heater setup you are making the heater work a lot harder. Heat rises and the bottom of your tank must colder than the top and being so close to the surface is asking for trouble. You can put the heater almost to the floor horizontally and you are good to go. If you want to keep your discus from getting burned, you can go the inline option which I have always personally preferred.

[jramer87]

I solved this problem with an inline heater canister. You can use any heater of the proper diameter in it, so far have only run across a couple very thin heaters that would not fit. I have a 300w in mine. It keeps clutter out of the tank and solves the problem of having enough water circulation around it.

Did you buy this product off the shelf or make it yourself? I'm interested in putting my heater in line as well. I'd be interested to see what you used.

[pitdogg2]

http://www.amazon.com/Hydor-In-Line-External-Aquarium-Heater/dp/B0002Z7VQE

here ya go

[rickztahone]

http://www.amazon.com/Hydor-In-Line-External-Aquarium-Heater/dp/B0002Z7VQE

here ya go

Absolutely rock solid heater. I've had many over the years and never one problem. Not one and I don't know of any other person that has ever had a problem with them either.

[Jack L]

I like the idea of surface agitation using return pump