New member, New to planted discus tank!

[planttastic]

Hello everyone, I am from richmond ky. I have a 180 gallon drilled tank. It was setup for 4 years as a saltwater reef tank. I was very successful in this and am not getting out, but am switching this tank over. I want to try a planted discus tank and want to know what I should be starting with and be prepared for?

[sdrexler078]

Read the beginners section it has a lot of good info. if you're new to discus and plants I would keep them seperate while learning. Discus in a bare bottom tank is much easier. But if you insist on plants you should get adults and keep up your water changes. But all that will be explained better in the beginner section

[XAnhLe]

Perhaps you should start with a non-planted discus tank first, then do planted discus tank once you are comfortable with keeping discus.

When I first got into the discus hobby, I was insisted on planted discus tank because duh it's beautiful. I was stubborn and disregarded a lot of advice from fellow members, now looking back, I wished I could have started out with bare bottom tanks. The reason being it's so much easier to clean bare bottom tanks, and you can always add a few driftwood with anubias. Many species of anubias are extremely tolerant with frequent water change schedules that discus requires.

I don't want to discourage you to do planted discus tank, but hopefully you know that it will take a lot of work, I have a planted discus now. You should also buy full grown adult discus for planted tank, so you won't stunt them. Hopefully this helps.

[rickztahone]

I am only assuming that you do not have planted tank experience nor discus raising experience? If so, I would actually encourage you to do a fully planted tank first. I have done both discus and plants (seperately) and I found a fully planted high tech tank a lot more challenging than I did the discus. For this reason, I would encourage you to set up a planted tank only to experiment in. plantedtank.net is a great place for some planted tank reading. It is where I learned most of my planted tank knowledge.

In a 180g tank though, you are talking a very large investment in equipment for fully planted, just fyi.

[discuspaul]

Hello everyone, I am from richmond ky. I have a 180 gallon drilled tank. It was setup for 4 years as a saltwater reef tank. I was very successful in this and am not getting out, but am switching this tank over. I want to try a planted discus tank and want to know what I should be starting with and be prepared for?

Welcome to the forum, Shane.
As others have very correctly pointed out, starting off with discus in a planted tank, and having little or no experience with either is a tall order, fraught with risks for a novice.

If you're determined to begin with a planted tank, please don't neglect doing lots of homework first, stock with nothing less than adult or near adult discus, and start with a very lightly planted low tech environment and suitable substrate to allow you to do a bang-up tank cleansing job with each frequent large wc. Keep things as simple as possible until you get several months of experience keeping both the fish & the plants healthy.
All the best of luck to you.

To Rickztahone - An aside to Ricardo above:
Hi Ricardo, I was not aware you were familiar with plantedtank.net. Are you a member ?. I've been a member there for several years and I've not crossed posting paths with you.
I agree it's a great forum for learning how to properly maintain a planted tank.

[planttastic]

Thanks all for the info. I am not new to a challenge. As stated above I have been in saltwater for 7 years. I was very successful in this. I have done the coral thing, even raised clown fish. Had 8 pairs at one time breeding and raising babies. I am used to all the tests, water changes, and maintance. I am doing my research and not jumping straight in. I already have most of the supplies needed for this tank from the saltwater switch. I too have just joined plantedtank.net. I know from the saltwater life that no matter how much u read u still don't know all the trick like the veterans that have done it. I thank all of uall for the caution and am asking for the things uall have done wrong and what if u had it to do over u would have done it differently.

[rickztahone]

Thanks all for the info. I am not new to a c hallenge. As stated above I have been in saltwater for 7 years. I was very successful in this. I have done the coral thing, even raised clown fish. Had 8 pairs at one time breeding and raising babies. I am used to all the tests, water changes, and maintance. I am doing my research and not jumping straight in. I already have most of the supplies needed for this tank from the saltwater switch. I too have just joined plantedtank.net.

great start and it seems like you have the determination to do it the right way. Again, my recommendation would be to start with maintaining a planted tank before jumping to discus. Even better, if you happen to have a 75g laying around (sadly, many of us do, lol), you can get some juvies and start honing in your skills on both hobbies in tandem. Keep them separate as long as possible and in a year or so, reevaluate if you are ready for a fully planted discus tank.

[planttastic]

Sounds like a plain. I will consider it. Yah I have several tanks sitting around. I have a 110 gallon tube that I was using for a refugium for the salt tank. I think it would make a good place to start to try some bare bottom discus in. What kind would u say is the best to try out my luck on?

[rickztahone]

Sounds like a plain. I will consider it. Yah I have several tanks sitting around. I have a 110 gallon tube that I was using for a refugium for the salt tank. I think it would make a good place to start to try some bare bottom discus in. What kind would u say is the best to try out my luck on?

it is a personal choice really. No one strain is better than the other, but I will say that I personally consider some Turquoise discus more hardy than the average discus. I have stayed away from albinos because back when they were introduced they had many problems. That doesn't seem to be the problem any more, but I have never gotten over that. Avoid wilds for sure though.

Here is a sticky thread that I started that gives you an idea of the different strains we have:
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?71055-Strain-List-for-Beginners-(pictures)

Additionally, we are currently working on cataloguing all past and current strains which you can find here:
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?350-Discus-Strain-Catalogue-(-member-submitted-Strains-galore!)

[planttastic]

Thanks for the info Rick. On the display tank I have a sump. How do I need to arrange it for it to be compatible for a planted tank?

[rickztahone]

Thanks for the info Rick. On the display tank I have a sump. How do I need to arrange it for it to be compatible for a planted tank?

I have always used canister filters on all my tanks. I just recently got in to sumps and am yet to use one (only in planning stages) so my advice on how to best utilize a sump in a fully planted tank wouldn't be first hand experience, and I typically don't like doing that. With that said, if I were to set up a sump for a planted tank, I would really implement some heavy DOC's collection. Planted tanks are super messy and give off so much dead material that it accumulates very quickly. So, I would use a lot of poret foam and other type of media filtration to try to eliminate as much DOC's as possible.

[pcsb23]

Thanks for the info Rick. On the display tank I have a sump. How do I need to arrange it for it to be compatible for a planted tank?Are you intending to go CO2 injection?

Ignoring the discus aspects for a moment, and Rick was right when he said that raising discus is easier than planted tanks btw ;)

When you decide to do a planted tank, you need to decide what type you are going for, fairly early on in the process as it will shape what can be done easily and what cannot. I say easily - I do mean relatively easily as planted tanks are more challenging. So start by deciding what type of lighting you will be using, if it is high output then make life easier and go injected CO2 - Yes it adds to the cost and complexity a bit, but it honestly makes managing the tank easier. You can then decide on how you will fertilise the plants, in high tech tanks you will need to add ferts and in a 180 that will mean a lot so dry powders are the way forward.

The next call is whether to use an enriched substrate, the benefits are they give you some wriggle room with fertilising schedules and plants establish faster ime/o - the disadvantage are they expensive and in some cases eye wateringly so!

From that point you can now look at suitable plants, some do better in softer water than others, though most will adapt.

Given that you intend to use a sump it will have an influence on how you do things, not on what you can and cannot do. I generally use canisters, but have used sumps with high tech tanks. The nice thing with them is you can hide loads of the gubbins that normally clutter the tank. The biggest downside is they mean you use more CO2 - but given that CO2 itself is cheap as chips that never bothered me.

[planttastic]

Thanks alot paul. I am using the led setup that I had for the reef. Great lighting very ho. I do intend on using direct co2 injection. Need to do research on that. The substrate I am using is for planted tanks. I am going to put it 3 inches deep. Is that the right depth? What type of fertilizer powder should I look into?

[pcsb23]

Have a look here http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?117026-Weeds - I really need to update that thread at some point - but it will give you an idea on how I went about a high tech, enriched substrate setup. I'd guess that mine is around 3" deep at the back but probably no more than 1" or so at the front.

This would be my plan of attack (it was in the main too!):
Make sure to put your lights on their own timer. Start with an 8 hour straight photo period. Put the CO2 on it's own timer, set to come on 2 hours before lights on and go off two before lights out - you want the concentration of CO2 to be at max when lights come on. Plants will very quickly gear up to using CO2 when the lights come on. Set the regulator by using the needle valve to deliver a constant amount of CO2 and for the first two weeks don't change it.

Talking of CO2 you are likely to need large CO2 bottles - I use fire extinguishers as my tank is reasonably large (around 100 US gals). You may find you need multiple diffusers to get enough CO2 into the water - or research making large CO2 reactors. If I go back to a sumped system I will likely use a reactor, they work better with very large systems.

I always advise people against using pH controllers with CO2 - they sound like a good idea but in practise they are nothing but problems andin the vast majority of times lead to a lovely tank of algae due to varying CO2 levels.

A basic CO2 setup is CO2 canister, regulator with needle valve, solenoid, non return valve, bubble counter. The bubble counter acts as a visual aid to a) confirm gas is flowing, and b) the rate is consistent - though with large tanks they can look like fizzy water!!

Buy the very best plants you can afford too, don't use any harsh chemicals on the plants, if you need to dip them for snails use something like eSHa gastropex or other copper based chem - the old fashioned allum works but can be harsh. If I get plants from a source that may have snails I will always dip them. Some sources, such as the tropica 1 2 3 grow pots are guaranteed to be snail free.

[rickztahone]

Have a look here http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?117026-Weeds - I really need to update that thread at some point - but it will give you an idea on how I went about a high tech, enriched substrate setup. I'd guess that mine is around 3" deep at the back but probably no more than 1" or so at the front.

This would be my plan of attack (it was in the main too!):
Make sure to put your lights on their own timer. Start with an 8 hour straight photo period. Put the CO2 on it's own timer, set to come on 2 hours before lights on and go off two before lights out - you want the concentration of CO2 to be at max when lights come on. Plants will very quickly gear up to using CO2 when the lights come on. Set the regulator by using the needle valve to deliver a constant amount of CO2 and for the first two weeks don't change it.

Talking of CO2 you are likely to need large CO2 bottles - I use fire extinguishers as my tank is reasonably large (around 100 US gals). You may find you need multiple diffusers to get enough CO2 into the water - or research making large CO2 reactors. If I go back to a sumped system I will likely use a reactor, they work better with very large systems.

I always advise people against using pH controllers with CO2 - they sound like a good idea but in practise they are nothing but problems andin the vast majority of times lead to a lovely tank of algae due to varying CO2 levels.

A basic CO2 setup is CO2 canister, regulator with needle valve, solenoid, non return valve, bubble counter. The bubble counter acts as a visual aid to a) confirm gas is flowing, and b) the rate is consistent - though with large tanks they can look like fizzy water!!

Buy the very best plants you can afford too, don't use any harsh chemicals on the plants, if you need to dip them for snails use something like eSHa gastropex or other copper based chem - the old fashioned allum works but can be harsh. If I get plants from a source that may have snails I will always dip them. Some sources, such as the tropica 1 2 3 grow pots are guaranteed to be snail free.

I agree with Paul about a reactor. I used a Rex Grigg DIY reactor for all my co2 injected tanks via inline with my canister filters and they work great. I wouldn't use a glass diffuser for such a large tank, and multiple points of co2 injection is going to be a must.

As far as your lighting goes, it may be high output, but what is the Kelvin rating for them?

[planttastic]

The light is a orphex Atlantik led light. It has good Kelvin rating for fresh water planted tank. Can one of u show me how u have ur co2 system setup and how uall made ur reactors? So paul u r saying that I don't need to use ro water just tap and decloranate it?

[planttastic]

Paul I looked at ur thread. Can u tell me what fertilizer u used on this tank.

[rickztahone]

The light is a orphex Atlantik led light. It has good Kelvin rating for fresh water planted tank. Can one of u show me how u have ur co2 system setup and how uall made ur reactors? So paul u r saying that I don't need to use ro water just tap and decloranate it?

Here is my old co2 setup for my 2 10g tanks and my 55g tank which had its own reactor as well. 3 way manifold with a Clippard solenoid if I remember correctly with JBJ bubble counters and NV55 needle valves all around on a 2 stage concoa regulator. You can see the reactors in the background for the 2 10g tanks. The last pic shows almost finished DIY reactors minus the barbs.
85130851318513285133

[pcsb23]

I moved this to the planted forum as hopefully more folk will see it and join in :)

I'm less concerned about spectrum as such. A few years back when I had multiple tanks running I ran a few experiments with lights, from using actinics, through to 15,000K marine lamps. I came to the conclusion that if there was enough light the plants would grow, if the light got out of balance with the fert regime including CO2 etc then the algae would grow. I now only concern myself with how I want to see the tank. In general though for plants I'd suggest around 5600K as to me that looks good, but don't stress if it 10,000K or 3,000K - the plants won't.

The substrate I used was tropica plant growth. All of the details are in the first post. :)

I'll sort some pics out later (when I've tidied up :o)

[planttastic]

85135Thanks paul this helps alot. I am using this type of substrates. As far as the fertilizer I was referring to this that u posted on ur thread "So for now I'll let the p[lants take hold and settle in. It will be a case of adding ferts daily and doing a once weekly water change and until the plants start to take off that will be all that is needed."

[pcsb23]

eco complete is decent - it can crumble after a while though. The ferts I refer to are powdered fertilisers, I basically use potassium nitrate (KNO3), potassium phosphate (K2PO4 or KH2PO4), magnesium sulphate (MgSO4 or Epsom Salts) and a trace mix (Plantex on the linked site), in the USA see here http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com/index.asp?Option1=cats&Edit=5&EditU=1&Regit=5

Have a google for EI dosing method - it is a decent start point :)

[rickztahone]

I moved this to the planted forum as hopefully more folk will see it and join in :)

I'm less concerned about spectrum as such. A few years back when I had multiple tanks running I ran a few experiments with lights, from using actinics, through to 15,000K marine lamps. I came to the conclusion that if there was enough light the plants would grow, if the light got out of balance with the fert regime including CO2 etc then the algae would grow. I now only concern myself with how I want to see the tank. In general though for plants I'd suggest around 5600K as to me that looks good, but don't stress if it 10,000K or 3,000K - the plants won't.

The substrate I used was tropica plant growth. All of the details are in the first post. :)

I'll sort some pics out later (when I've tidied up :o)

plants really don't care about Kelvin, but I only asked because I figured OP coming from SW tanks it may be a really blue kelvin that may not be aesthetically pleasing and may be a good idea to swap out early on rather than down the line.

The link that Paul linked to is a great place to get fertz. I've bought from them and they shipped super quick. it helps that they are so close to me though.

[pcsb23]

...
The link that Paul linked to is a great place to get fertz. I've bought from them and they shipped super quick. it helps that they are so close to me though.Cheap too compared with the UK :)

[planttastic]

The company that I was ordering my substrate from said they r out of stock of this kind. What other kind of substrates uall recommend? Is flourite good from seachem? I also was looking at this stuff what do uall think85136

[Reesj]

For CO2 you can use tablets BTW !Considering you do not want to dish out huge lot or don't want the hassle to store a load of crap! That is what I'm doing at least with mine(Ocean Free - CO2 Tablets).

Also planted tanks with discus in them is not as hard as people make them out to be. If you had a reef up, this should be a cake walk for u! GL man

[pcsb23]

The company that I was ordering my substrate from said they r out of stock of this kind. What other kind of substrates uall recommend? Is flourite good from seachem? I also was looking at this stuff what do uall think85136I think it is too dark :) But you may like it. The plants will do fine in it. If you get pigeon blood discus it may cause them to pepper too.

As for the CO2 tabs, I'm sorry to say they are a complete waste of time and money - they don't give a steady supply of CO2 (which is vital) and the CO2 they do give off doesn't fully dissolve, may as well use an alka seltzer. And given the size of your tank you would need quite a few - heck by the time you'd run it for a month using these tabs you could buy a proper CO2 setup ;)

Oh, and for the record I had reef tanks - and they are much easier than proper planted tanks - that is of course in my humble opinion and experience ;)

[pcsb23]

Again on the CO2 tablets, you would be better using something like flourish excel or any similar product.

[planttastic]

They have a lighter color brown too 85137 also what do u think of this stuff85138

[Solid]

Paul is spot on here (as usual).

Here is my set-up:
8513985140

I used a "rex grigg" style reactor. You can see a similar build here (http://www.barrreport.com/forum/barr-report/articles-aa/3576-dual-venturi-diy-external-co2-reactor?highlight=vortex), The only difference is I used a threaded Co2 line brass barb like this (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BQKDPA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) instead of the plastic tubes they used there.

As far as substrate goes, that fluorite will be fine as long as you like the look, but it is for the most part inert. If you want something that will provide optimal nutrition for the plants, i would go with ADA aquasoil (http://www.adana-usa.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=76_12_21&zenid=bb652f008c81f5e1fbfc891d1f43fcb8) or Marfied Controsoil (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00L9IHIXY/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1Y84HCNSXFCHH&coliid=I3AZWIKZEL01SJ&psc=1). That being said, I prefer plain silica sand. It is inert also, but if you dose fertilizers you should be fine. Sand is also easier to clean and the light color makes the fish's color better. Also sand is like $12 for a 50lbs rather than over $100+ I spent on Aquasoil a few years back...

[pcsb23]

Flourite used to be all the rage, seems to have lost it's popularity these days. When I used it, it was always under either sand or dirt (dirt as in soil). Having used it, I wouldn't rush to use it again. Also it has very hard edges which may limit some types of fish (e.g. corydorus sp.). The lighter brown stuff looks ok too, again it may impact pigeon bloods.

I've not tried the marfield soil that Solid links to, again note it's colour, but it should be good I'd think. As for the ADA stuff, it is terrific but massively expensive and you need to stay on top of tank maintenance during the early days as it gives off ammonia - so it will cycle your tank too! But make sure you are sat down before you see the price!! And make sure a medic is on hand when you look at the price of the ADA powersand :evilgrin:

Seriously though, I've had many a successful high tech tank by using just pool filter sand and relying on water column ferts.

[planttastic]

Paul do u think it would be good to get the light colored stuff and put pool filter sand on top of that? Why would it affect pigeon blood?

[Reesj]

I think it is too dark :) But you may like it. The plants will do fine in it. If you get pigeon blood discus it may cause them to pepper too.

As for the CO2 tabs, I'm sorry to say they are a complete waste of time and money - they don't give a steady supply of CO2 (which is vital) and the CO2 they do give off doesn't fully dissolve, may as well use an alka seltzer. And given the size of your tank you would need quite a few - heck by the time you'd run it for a month using these tabs you could buy a proper CO2 setup ;)

Oh, and for the record I had reef tanks - and they are much easier than proper planted tanks - that is of course in my humble opinion and experience ;)

As for the CO2 Tabs they work great for me. Unless you are going super high tech setup CO2 tablets work great and it does help a lot! I have been using them with great success so far. It dissolves slowly for a longer period of time and you can clearly see the CO2 bubbles. (Heck I don't even use at them anywhere as frequent as advised. I can see the difference when I frequently very clearly)
Also if you want to be going supper tech CO2 ,n getting discus in to those tanks won't be the best thing EVER! If you going super high CO2 and 5WPG tech you would have to be trimming stuff every few days time disturbing the fish every few days! !
Just my 2 cents! :- If you want to go for a Discus planted tank, Go for less than 3WPG setup. All the CO2 used by all these high techs will be wasted unless you are willing to pump huge amount of WPG paying exuberant electricity bills which will not be good for a discus planted tank to begin with!

[Reesj]

Paul do u think it would be good to get the light colored stuff and put pool filter sand on top of that? Why would it affect pigeon blood?

you can always use what ever planting stuff you like mate and put a small sand layer on top of it. That is the set-up I'm using also. OFC I'm doing this for the looks more than Pigeon bloods though as I already have a black background and one side covered off for a nice view.

[Solid]

The goal with CO2 should be not to see any bubbles. If you see bubbles, that means that CO2 hasn't dissolved into the water. When the bubbles reach the surface, it will be wasted.

You can use sand as a cap on the fluorite or whatever, but in my experience the larger pieces of substrate will eventually come up on top of the sand. Whenever you are pulling up plants or replanting you get some mixing. There are things that you can do to limit it, but in the long term it will mix. As with everything, your experience may vary.

[Reesj]

The goal with CO2 should be not to see any bubbles. If you see bubbles, that means that CO2 hasn't dissolved into the water. When the bubbles reach the surface, it will be wasted.



Actually the bubbles form on the surface of the tablet. They do not shoot off to the top of tank. Anyway I will try to upload a picture tomorrow f I have time.


You can use sand as a cap on the fluorite or whatever, but in my experience the larger pieces of substrate will eventually come up on top of the sand. Whenever you are pulling up plants or replanting you get some mixing. There are things that you can do to limit it, but in the long term it will mix. As with everything, your experience may vary.

A tiny bit as in few grains would pop up if you have fish like cory doras like I do! But nothing you can't solve using a a bit thicker sand layer:D. I have about 1 inch of sand on top of 2 inches of planting soil and seems to do the trick .

[planttastic]

I have heard of people using some kind of miracle grow soil under rock. Uall heard of it?

[pcsb23]

Paul do u think it would be good to get the light colored stuff and put pool filter sand on top of that? Why would it affect pigeon blood?Pigeon bloods will pepper in tanks with dark substrates and/or dark pbackgrounds, they are also more prone in planted tanks. Not all PBs pepper, but most are prone.


As for the CO2 Tabs they work great for me. Unless you are going super high tech setup CO2 tablets work great and it does help a lot! I have been using them with great success so far. It dissolves slowly for a longer period of time and you can clearly see the CO2 bubbles. (Heck I don't even use at them anywhere as frequent as advised. I can see the difference when I frequently very clearly)
Also if you want to be going supper tech CO2 ,n getting discus in to those tanks won't be the best thing EVER! If you going super high CO2 and 5WPG tech you would have to be trimming stuff every few days time disturbing the fish every few days! !
Just my 2 cents! :- If you want to go for a Discus planted tank, Go for less than 3WPG setup. All the CO2 used by all these high techs will be wasted unless you are willing to pump huge amount of WPG paying exuberant electricity bills which will not be good for a discus planted tank to begin with!Its good the tabs may have worked for you but we are talking about a 180 gallon tank here with sump. Tabs, diy or excel won't cut it.

Also the OP is using led lighting so any discussion about WPG is somewhat irrelevant - and to be honest WPG is an outdated way of looking at lighting as it was based on the old T12 tubes.


you can always use what ever planting stuff you like mate and put a small sand layer on top of it. That is the set-up I'm using also. OFC I'm doing this for the looks more than Pigeon bloods though as I already have a black background and one side covered off for a nice view.Make no mistake if you put sand on top of any other substrate over time it will mix, it always does and unless you use a barrier (not advised btw) it always will.


The goal with CO2 should be not to see any bubbles. If you see bubbles, that means that CO2 hasn't dissolved into the water. When the bubbles reach the surface, it will be wasted.

You can use sand as a cap on the fluorite or whatever, but in my experience the larger pieces of substrate will eventually come up on top of the sand. Whenever you are pulling up plants or replanting you get some mixing. There are things that you can do to limit it, but in the long term it will mix. As with everything, your experience may vary.Agreed on both counts


Actually the bubbles form on the surface of the tablet. They do not shoot off to the top of tank. Anyway I will try to upload a picture tomorrow f I have time.


A tiny bit as in few grains would pop up if you have fish like cory doras like I do! But nothing you can't solve using a a bit thicker sand layer:D. I have about 1 inch of sand on top of 2 inches of planting soil and seems to do the trick .Look forward to the pic

[pcsb23]

I have heard of people using some kind of miracle grow soil under rock. Uall heard of it?
Yep, never tried it, you will also discover people using kitty litter and garden soil as well as many other weird and wonderful things, and most will be claiming great success. It's funny that ALL of the long term planted tank guys stay away from most of this "snake oil" and rely on either specific aquatic products such as ADA, tropica and the like or just use plain pool filter sand.

btw I've done a dirt tank, worked well until I had to re-scape - just looked like muddy water after that, and I don't mean the blues guitarist either!

[planttastic]

K under stand. I might have to wait a week for the company to get my stuff in. We're do uall order ur stuff from?

[Reesj]

Also the OP is using led lighting so any discussion about WPG is somewhat irrelevant - and to be honest WPG is an outdated way of looking at lighting as it was based on the old T12 tubes.


It is just a way to get an idea man. LED t12 or florescent you can get an idea depending on the type when considered for t12s. Light is technically measured in lux (Lumen or candle power if talking about the output from source). For that you will need a lux meter which people do not typically keep. Believe me I know how it works considering I'm an Electrical Engineering lecturer teaching student about these stuff :D . There is a whole topic I teach under Electrical power utilization.

Anyway do you think going supper high tech is the way to go for a guy starting with a Discus Planted tank ? (at least though planttastic does not seems to be bothered about the cash side of things :) )

[planttastic]

No need to argue. I am asking for everyone's opinion. Not trying to start a battle. I thank both of u for input. Keep it coming.

[pcsb23]

It is just a way to get an idea man. LED t12 or florescent you can get an idea depending on the type when considered for t12s. Light is technically measured in lux (Lumen or candle power if talking about the output from source). For that you will need a lux meter which people do not typically keep. Believe me I know how it works considering I'm an Electrical Engineering lecturer teaching student about these stuff :D . There is a whole topic I teach under Electrical power utilization.Suggest you google PAR :) it is far more relevant to planted tanks - and no, in my experience you cannot judge new technology by the old tech methods, I doubt my LEDs use anymore than 20 watss, that would give me 0.2wpg - yet mine is a high light, high tech tank ...



Anyway do you think going supper high tech is the way to go for a guy starting with a Discus Planted tank ? (at least though planttastic does not seems to be bothered about the cash side of things :) )

I'd not normally advise it, but as others had advised against it earlier this is why I started my responses earlier with the below

...
Ignoring the discus aspects for a moment,...

But as the OP seems determined to do this, then I'll offer him help all the way.

[Reesj]

No need to argue. I am asking for everyone's opinion. Not trying to start a battle. I thank both of u for input. Keep it coming.

Sorry if it came off as arguing, but it is nice to talk some stuff over to and gain some knowledge. Unless we go with the same stuff that's been passed down for generations.

[pcsb23]

No need to argue. I am asking for everyone's opinion. Not trying to start a battle. I thank both of u for input. Keep it coming.Shane no worries fella, I didn't think we were arguing, if there is one area that moves quickly it is the high tech planted side of things. Discus keeping - well things pretty much change to stay the same ;)

[pcsb23]

K under stand. I might have to wait a week for the company to get my stuff in. We're do uall order ur stuff from?I get my stuff here in the UK, so can't really help too much for the US.

[Reesj]

Suggest you google PAR :) it is far more relevant to planted tanks - and no, in my experience you cannot judge new technology by the old tech methods, I doubt my LEDs use anymore than 20 watss, that would give me 0.2wpg - yet mine is a high light, high tech tank ...
.

PAR is not actually good way to compare! Find the lumen per watt for common t8 fixtures and for the LEDs you are using and you will get the answer in WPG! In general between t8s and LEDs the efficiency improvement is about 30-90%. So if you are using 0.2 WPG I would say that at max about 0.4 WPG in general terms which sucks for plants and you should not be using CO2 :). OFC if you are using reflectors the value will change accordingly. (T8s normally have spherical candle power. While the LED fixers might be at best hemispherical candle power getting concentrated)

[planttastic]

Thanks yall. I do think I am going to hold off on the dicus until I get the plant thing down, but I want to make sure the planted tank is compatible with my fish later.

[Solid]

That is a good idea. I recommend checking out plantedtank.net forums and barrreport.com forums, they are fantastic resources for planted tank info.

[pcsb23]

Last word from me on PAR (in this thread anyway) and why it is important with LED lighting ... LEDs cannot be measured in terms of watts output (for planted tanks) due to the nature of the tech - i.e. very low wattage for very high output and so many different types/qualities. They can be measured in lumens though (all light can). However the plants don't give a fig about lumens, they care about the par which is an acronym for photosynthetically active radiation - it is this that determines how well the plants grow. The following table gives a rough idea of what constitutes which lighting level. PAR is measured in micromoles of photons per square metre per second btw ...

Low light - 15-30 micromols of PAR - CO2 is not needed, but is helpful to the plants
Medium light - 35-50 micromols of PAR - CO2 may be needed to avoid too many nuisance algae problems
High light - more than 50 micromols of PAR - pressurized CO2 is essential to avoid major algae problems

The above is typically measured at the substrate level through water btw ...

Couple of good threads to read
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=184368
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/par-readings-what-are-good-readings.26134/

[planttastic]

I am a member ofplanted tank. Net but I am getting more information from y'all then I am there.

[rickztahone]

I've used ADA Amazonia on my 55g. 3 9L bags I believe and it is terrific but as Paul pointed out, very pricey.

[RodneyL001]

wow, just started following this thread, this has gone way over my head. The only thing I can add is when doing your planted tank, use the K.I.S.S method, don't over-complicate this, or you will never get started. Just do it, be prepared to make mistakes, learn from those mistakes and start over. You will get into a routine that works for you.

[rickztahone]

wow, just started following this thread, this has gone way over my head. The only thing I can add is when doing your planted tank, use the K.I.S.S method, don't over-complicate this, or you will never get started. Just do it, be prepared to make mistakes, learn from those mistakes and start over. You will get into a routine that works for you.

Agreed. The K.I.S.S approach is a great one, but in reality, when you are talking about a HO planted tank with Co2 and fertz and all that good stuff, you find it difficult to keep it simple in such a setup :).

My advice?

Get a fixture which wouldn't require co2.

Get low light plants, and when you buy the plants, get as many plants as possible. People typically do not get what I mean when I say "as many as possible". I really do mean, if it is in your budget, get as many as you possibly can. The more you put in there, the faster the tank will be up and running and the easier it will be to get a handle on a planted tank.

If you buy sparingly and hope to propagate, chances are you will lose your battle with algae early on and you will be turned off from doing a HO planted tank.

Do fertz in a low light tank and use root tabs. It is difficult to get red plants to turn red in low light tanks, so you may want to avoid paying the premium for them when they will more than likely not turn red on you.

Just tips for you that would have saved me money if someone would have mentioned it when I started planted tanks.

edit: one of the most common mistakes is having too long of a photo period. It is best to start with a 6-8hr period.

[pancakeswim]

I recently set up a 70G paludarium style tank, with 6, 3" Discus from Hans. It is quite heavily planted, with a warm water, plant package I got from plantedaquariumscentral.com.
I liked the plant package and everything is doing well. I am new to Discus, but not planted tanks. The fish are quite happy, and seem to love the cover provided by all the plants.
I did spend a lot of time reading on this site as well as the planted tank.com forum. I am using the Jungle Hobbies LED, 16" above my water, which allows me to easily change my custom light schedule. I did get some algae initially, but with water changes, a UV sterilizer and reducing my photoperiod, the algae is on the decline. Good luck! I can spend hours watching these beautiful fish swimming among the plants.