Something wiping out my entire discus tank - no apparent bodily symptoms

[ceveji]

Hello all,

I had 10 (4"-5") discus at the start of last week and now I have 5. Not to mention all the other little fish who have died. My water parameters are perfect (0 ppm ammonia, 0 nitrites, 0-5 ppm nitrates). Temperature is 82 degrees.

The only thing that has changed is that I added new fish ... without a quarantine. I added two small wild-caught mormyrids last week. Since then, one by one my fish (including discus) have been, first, gasping for air, then swimming sideways, and finally dying (within 24 hours or so). Aside from dull-looking eyes and the strange swimming, their gills look fine. One strange thing I noticed was a kind of very light fuzz coming off one of the discus who died a couple days ago, as if he was shedding his slime coat. The angelfish died after developing a reddish (blood-filled?) snout and forehead area. But aside from those two symptoms, none of the others present much of anything strange before dying. No flashing at all...

Please provide any help you can with what this might be. I dipped the remaining 5 discus in a potassium permanganate solution last night as a last resort (for 10 minutes only, but at a pretty good concentration). I have also been doing 50% water changes daily (if not twice daily) since the start of the deaths.

I am beyond sad about this development. I've had these discus for two years now and never had an issue...

Thank you.

[brewmaster15]

Doesnt sound good .:( Im sure you probably know the new fish are most likely the culprits. The time frame coincides to protozoan outbreak.... can you post pictures of the current fish?

Al

[nc0gnet0]

Ugg,

Not much to go on but it sounds like it might be an Oodinium infestation. Pictures ASAP would help!


-Rick

[ceveji]

Hi Al, hi Rick

Thank you SO MUCH for this quick response. I have been pulling my hair out for three days now... What kind of protozoan outbreak? I've never faced this issue before. Yes, I am kicking myself for introducing new fish in such a cavalier way...

I just noticed, in taking the pics, that one of the fish looks lacerated along the side of his body. Perhaps I should also note they haven't eaten a thing in 4 days.

Rick, how does one treat Oodinium?

8518585186

[nc0gnet0]

I dipped the remaining 5 discus in a potassium permanganate solution last night as a last resort (for 10 minutes only, but at a pretty good concentration).

This is generally not a good practice unless you are transferring the fish into a sterile QT tank after the dip. What you have essentially done is to strip the fish of their protective slime coat and then re-introduce them into an infected tank.

Do you have a QT tank?

Is your current tank still planted with substrate?

[nc0gnet0]

I will defer to Al on the best treatment for oodinium, as I have yet to have to treat it myself personally. The PP dip would not have been a bad start, if, and only if, the fish were then placed in a sterile QT tank. After that lights out, and copper sulfate, or maybe a Formalin + malachite green product (quick cure or equivalent).

[ceveji]

Hi Mud,

I wish I had a quarantine tank.. but no, I don't. Perhaps now I will invest in one. And yes, I used the PP as a real last resort. I didn't know what else to do and I may not have been functioning very rationally last night after getting back from work and finding this terrible scene... But I see what you mean; perhaps I made things worse.

My current tank is still planted. And actually, when I was trimming plants earlier this week I noticed what looked like tiny little eggs (or something) on some of the leaves. Could this be related to the issue?

Thanks again. C

[ceveji]

Btw, if Oodinium presents anything like Ich then I don't think this is what's bugging my fish. I have lived through Ich before and the type of flashing involved is simply not going on in my tank at the moment. None have flashed at all this week, and I've been keeping a close eye on them. The first symptom seems to be gasping at the surface and some small bodily lacerations.

[brewmaster15]

Its really hard to tell from those pics whats going on..


One strange thing I noticed was a kind of very light fuzz coming off one of the discus who died a couple days ago, as if he was shedding his slime coat....Aside from dull-looking eyes and the strange swimming, their gills look fine indicates possibly protozoan like oodinum.

Its possible its viral and theres nothing to be done but let nature take its course.

Best guess treatment is try and treat for protozoan.
What I suggest you do is shut off the lights.. The plants do complicate things.. Pickup some formalin/malachite green (quick cure) or if you cant find it , try this... http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/ParaGuard.html many have been havuing alot of success with it... The lights need to stay off 24 /7...literally blacken the tank..if its oodinium, its gets energy from the light. Do full water changes daily.

Not to pick on you here at all for the QT, but unfortunately this is why we need to do so.. The cost of a tank heater and filter to use as a QT or hospital tank will always pay for itself over the lifetime of your hobby. I see so many people that lose their prize discus just like you are. Its a major bummer to see it and for you to experience it.

hth,
al

[brewmaster15]

Ick is bad, oodinium , costia etc, make it look like the sniffles...

al

[ceveji]

Hi all,

Ok, two more discus deaths yesterdays. There are five remaining and none are acting too strangely today. My LFS thinks I should medicate the whole tank with praziquantel. Is it possible not to medicate and simply wait it out, or do you all think I should wipe the parasitic slate clean (so to speak) and go ahead and do 1 month of medication (probably killing off my plants)? Tx for your advice.

C

[nc0gnet0]

Err uhh?

I don't get this....sorry....really I don't. You come asking for advice, we give it. So then you run to your LFS and get more advice? Prazi? Really? This is why you should never ask an LFS anything...period. They really don't have a clue. I take it the LFS thinks that it is gill flukes that are killing your fish this fast? Or are they so ill advised they think prazi is a cure all for all parasites? This is not gill flukes.

Once again:

Get a QT tank
Medicate with quick cure or parasite guard as per instructions
Do it and do it fast, time is of the essence if your dealing with oodinum

Otherwise, your only other real option is to cull everything, sterilize everything and start over.

[ceveji]

Greetings again, good morning,

No need to be unpleasant. My LFS happens to be a discus breeder and praziquantel is the main ingredient on any bottle of parasite guard or other anti-parasitic ingredient. I am following your instructions. In my last post I was simply asking whether to medicate straight away (given the difficulty respiring and fragile state of my fish, I didn't want to kill them with the meds, which I understand strip the tank of dissolved O2) or wait till they seemed a bit stronger.

[nc0gnet0]

praziquantel is the main ingredient on any bottle of parasite guard or other anti-parasitic ingredient

This simply is not true.........