blackworms

[slp]

I am currently feeding hans beef mix and blood worms as well as hans flakes. I am thinking of getting some FDBW to be sure I have the major food groups covered. (Boy these fish eat better than I do). Can anyone tell me what the difference is between California And AustralIan worms, and if one is better than the other, and why. Man talk about asking lots of questions all at once.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi slp, I would suggest you get a sample of each and judge for yourself.
Pat

[oliverk]

Wish I knew the answer but I have more the same question - what is the difference???? Just trying is sometimes a good answer but sometimes it takes a long time trying to get an answer.

First are they really the same type of creature generally or sort of look a likes from different areas etc.....

If they are generally the same creature do they have nutritional differences as feed to Discus that are important to consider and what are they..... could be due to what the creature eats in the various areas, how they are harvested shipped etc......

........... The search for history is down atm so checking under blackworms for historical info a bit tough

[brewmaster15]

Oliver,
Would it not have been easier to ask the sponsors about their products rather than ask the forum members? California blackworms are Lumbriculus variegatus. One is farmed in California...one farmed in Australia.
As for which is better... just like Discus sellers everyone has their favorites.
al

Please reference this thread ...http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?118796-Acceptible-and-unacceptible-thread-policy-RE-bashing-sponsors&p=1145012#post1145012

[slp]

Oliver,
Would it not have been easier to ask the sponsors about their products rather than ask the forum members? California blackworms are Lumbriculus variegatus. One is farmed in California...one farmed in Australia.
As for which is better... just like Discus sellers everyone has their favorites.
al

Please reference this thread ...http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?118796-Acceptible-and-unacceptible-thread-policy-RE-bashing-sponsors&p=1145012#post1145012



I wasn't trying to step on anyone's toes or pit one sponsers against another. I am new to discus on only want the best for the fish. In the future I will try to be more selective in my wording. I do appreciate all of the input from the members of simply. It seems to me it is the quickest way to learn what is needed to keep healthy discus. My main purpose of posting questions is to gather more informstion. As I said, I want the best conditions possible that will result in fish that will give the greatest pleasure in watching them. This includes the best food, tempersture, water etc.

Sorry if I rubbed anyone the wrong way and will be more careful in the future.

Steve

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Steve, no harm done and FDBWs are an excellent food source of the fish. Since you are dealing with two vendors here seems to easiest way is to decide to get a small sample from each vendor and judge for yourself. :)
Pat

[brewmaster15]

I wasn't trying to step on anyone's toes or pit one sponsers against another. I am new to discus on only want the best for the fish. In the future I will try to be more selective in my wording. I do appreciate all of the input from the members of simply. It seems to me it is the quickest way to learn what is needed to keep healthy discus. My main purpose of posting questions is to gather more informstion. As I said, I want the best conditions possible that will result in fish that will give the greatest pleasure in watching them. This includes the best food, tempersture, water etc.

Sorry if I rubbed anyone the wrong way and will be more careful in the future.

Steve
Hi Steve,
You didnt rub anyone the wrong way and its fine to ask questions...but there are definetly ways to word questions that are better than others. No harm done..

The best place to start with questions on fish or product questions are the sellers themselves...no one knows the product better. It gives you a sound knowledge base.Read the threads in the sponsors sections and ask them questions directly.Then read the sellers reviews and feedback on the forum.Follow up again with the seller If you still have questions.

I can tell you from experience if you ask which sellers are best you will get opinions..if you read feedback posted...you get opinions based on buyers experiences. These are not the same thing.

I understand your intent and share your desire to have the best care for your fish...but I also have guidelines in place on the forum that we all try and follow . It helps keep the forum a friendly and fair place for both buyers and sellers.

Best always,
Al

[brewmaster15]

Steve and Oliver,I sent you a pm to follow up.

Al

[DISCUS STU]

Just a speculation. Outside of comparative protein content which I assume would be relatively high for both, outside of that I don't know if there's anything more than a little fat, fiber, and moisture in there. I normally don't see vitamin or mineral contents listed. Is this just because the FDA doesn't have any bearing here?

While it doesn't address Californian or Australian types this is an interesting dialog that I found on the net. Though it is for blackworms.
https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=A0LEVxo6ngFVpcwA_6ZXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEyO GthcGs5BGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwM1BHZ0aWQDUTFNMDFfMQRzZWM Dc3I-?qid=20060802081441AAUCGE8

[brewmaster15]

I've posted this before in my sponsor board ...http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?113210-Nutritional-value

Posted Nutritional analysis...
http://www.blackworms.com.au/searchresults.asp?cat=1821



What is the nutritional facts of your worms?

These results were taken from Australian Black Worms (freeze dried type) sent to Analytico, a commercial lab based in the Netherlands.

Compound
Amount
Unit
Material
Lipid
7.22
%
FD worms
Ashes
5.91
%
FD worms
Protein
59.3
%
FD worms
Moisture
7.34
%
FD worms
Carbohydrates (calculated)
20.2
%
FD worms
EPA
4.53
% of total fatty acids
FD worms
DHA
1.79
% of total fatty acids
FD worms
monounsaturated fatty acids
20.9
% of total fatty acids
FD worms
polyunsaturated fatty acids
28
% of total fatty acids
FD worms
omega 3 fatty acids
8.13
% of total fatty acids
FD worms
omega 6 fatty acids
18.3
% of total fatty acids
FD worms
energetic value
1630
kJ/100 g
FD worms
energetic value
387
kcal/100 g
FD worms

The following results were done at “Riverina Laboratories” Albury, NSW, Australia

Crude Protein % as received.......................................... ................................54.52
Crude Fat % as received.......................................... .......................................11.40
Crude Fibre% as received.......................................... ......................................0.20
Moisture % as received.......................................... .........................................17.83
Solids % as received.......................................... ...............................................82. 17
Crude Protein % dry weight basis............................................. .......................66.35
Crude Fat % dry weight basis............................................. ..............................13.87
Crude Fibre % dry weight basis............................................. ...........................0

[dprais1]

I liked Al's better, JMO, the worms are smaller and Dan's and seem easier for juvenile discus to consume. They also seemed to 'stick' better to glass. JMO.

[DISCUS STU]

I've posted this before in my sponsor board ...http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?113210-Nutritional-value

Posted Nutritional analysis...
http://www.blackworms.com.au/searchresults.asp?cat=1821

Very good info. Al.

[tonytheboss1]

Hi Steve, no harm done and FDBWs are an excellent food source of the fish. Since you are dealing with two vendors here seems to easiest way is to decide to get a small sample from each vendor and judge for yourself.
Pat ]

:bandana: ++1 I like Pats solution. Small sample of each & watch the fish reaction. (and you'll be supporting both sponsors at the same time) lol lol "T"

[Solid]

I like to use both! I feed a variety of Dan's different mixes with PRO-GRO and others AND I also feed Al's original and "bio-pigment" plus.

[dmheric]

Hi. I just got some of Al's freeze dried Australian black worms yesterday to try and all my discus love them.
They are in cubes so be sure not to break off too big of a peice and give them too much. They will be getting these once a day. I also feed Hikari FD bloodworms and FD brine shrimp and beefheart flakes every day.

[jmf3460]

My fish prefer Al's. I have bought Dans and to me the texture is different than al's and for some reason my fish did not eat the California ones from dan. but they are both great products

[DISCUS STU]

I use both the blackworms and the tubifex from Aquatic Foods (California) as well as their earthworm flake. My fish seem to enjoy both. Will try the Aussie stuff next time. Are the prices comparable?

[slp]

I use both the blackworms and the tubifex from Aquatic Foods (California) as well as their earthworm flake. My fish seem to enjoy both. Will try the Aussie stuff next time. Are the prices comparable?

Al's are a little more than the ones from California, but I figure that he has added expense running the forum. Several of the forum members seem to prefer Al's. I did place an order with Al. Well post a review after I see how the fish respond.

[Tankster]

Al's are a little more than the ones from California, but I figure that he has added expense running the forum. Several of the forum members seem to prefer Al's. I did place an order with Al. Well post a review after I see how the fish respond.

I believe Al also has his imported from Australia... this adds to his base cost. I don't think Al's black worm cost is in any way associated with the cost of running this forum. Two separate entities entirely.

Further - I really don't think it is any of my business. Al prices his product, I see value in it, I buy it :)

[RodneyL001]

I like the loose worms as opposed to the cubed. Sometime I like to splurge and get the live CBW, I can't afford that too often though. Both are good products and I don't think your fish will protest too much one way or another. :)

[XAnhLe]

I have been using blackworms as the main food source for my fish ever since I started discus. I use live worms, and freeze dried products from both Al and Dan. They are both exceptional. I use Dan FDBW with ProMore for my breeding pairs because it does work! My pairs are spawning like crazy eating this stuff. I also use Al's FDBW with spinach, which my discus have preference for. They love Al's FDBW more than anything that I have ever given them. I do agree with some points mentioned above, Australian blackworms are smaller and it is easier for smaller discus to eat, and they also stick to the glass easier. I do have problem sticking Dan's FDBW to the glass, but an easy solution for this would be flipping the feeding cones up side down, and use it as feeding stations.

Overall, both California and Australia FDBW are great products, and for me they have different uses. Both sellers are exceptionally great people to deal with.

[oliverk]

Am sorry if I offended the rules or the sponsor of this board - I enjoy the board very much.

However, let me ask this question - in a beef mix for discus would it be better to use Kobe beef, the beef in America that has its own name but is supposed to compete directly with Kobe, (both of these very high fat content intentionally so and grown for lots of marbling) or grain fed, grass fed or those strains or types bred for low fat or something in between... In other posts on simplydiscus I think the community is watching for is organic something to be used rather than use the growth hormones and antibiotics in growing the beef product the consensus being interesting question not proven it affect the discus in their food but possible worth watching......

It is a competitive world and some make competitive elections and breed, feed raise and advertise about the differences in their elections. I was trying to elicit/recall something I had read about comparative practices and frustrated because at the time the advanced search function on Simply wasn't working for me. (am frustrated my fish don't like my beefheart mix and was thinking about abandoning making so was wanting to do a review of other food for my rotating mix of feed again...)

So sorry if I offended anyone

Oliver

P.S. Al where can I find out what your customer's fish are selling Australian blackworms for? (grin - probably should have resisted but simply couldn't - It is a funny competitive advertising line in a sig file)

[pitdogg2]

However, let me ask this question - in a beef mix for discus would it be better to use Kobe beef, the beef in America that has its own name but is supposed to compete directly with Kobe, (both of these very high fat content intentionally so and grown for lots of marbling) or grain fed, grass fed or those strains or types bred for low fat or something in between...


You would not want all that fat in your mix. That is why they always used the heart and trimmed all the fat off and use just the muscle. Once upon a time "Sally's" made a Turkey heart mix to go against beef heart and marketed it as lower in fat and better....Been awhile since I seen any of that sold.

[oliverk]

Grin - It wasn't a serious question per se it was bringing it home to discus that some people intentionally doing things that they believe is a competitive advantage for their primary or secondary market I had been taken a little to task for perhaps trying to "pit" sponsors against each other in an earlier post........ Not my intention, it was to elicit fact.... the Kobe Beef people will say yes we choose and breed for specific qualities, feed accordingly, massage the cattle and etc to produce the best eating beef in the world. Some others will say we choose to use as lean a cattle genetics, allow to range feed and don't use grown hormones or antibiotics to produce the best eating and healthiest eating beef and etc.

That said Yep heart is one of the leanest after trimming and I caught it that this is the consensus of what is preferable for the discus diet,,,,, Also Why I believe Han's ground beef does an 85/15 or a 90/10 mix for his formulation.

[brewmaster15]

Thats enough... this thread is closed. What I have posted,the links I gave, and my pms should have sufficed.

This topic ends now.