Need some help with testing water

[shadeslayer]

Hey guys!
So as I was advised, I bought Prime and started to use it in my tank. the difference is phenomenal so far! THANK YOU!:D
Water is much clearer now, my discus fish are very happy swimming about, my angelfish are also happy and swimming.
Everyone is eating hardily.

I decided to test my water to just see if everything was ok, I found follows:
API Test Strip
ph 6.0-6.5
Nitrite - 0 ppm
Nitrate - 0-20 ppm
KH - 0 ish ppm ( a little bit of carbonate hardness i believe but it seems close to 0)
GH - 0 ppm

API Ammonia Test kit
2 ppm?!

I'm starting to freak out in my head, but all my fish are looking fine
is there better test kits out there that I should be using

[Ardan]

Most test kits will show ammonia when using prime, but the ammonia is nontoxic.

hth
Ardan

[oliverk]

Seachem makes two products that test separately for toxic ammonia vs total ammonia. One is a liquid test kit which is I believe similar to the liquid test kits you have been using - evidently comes in a two pack one for toxic and the other is total which I believe you already have. Look for Seachem Multi-test.

The other is a hang in the tank indicator that constantly measures toxic ammonia only. I had a thread on Simply asking for any personal experiences with it and got essentially no useful responses ... most saying change water, change water. I bought one and installed it and AFTER TWO weeks believe it may be useful. There are competing products made by other manufacturers for this I believe. It is called Ammonia Alert.

I also asked about how non toxic is non toxic ammonia because I kept seeing these qualifiers of "largely", "relatively" and the like when reading. Discus having a reputation of being relatively sensitive fish ...... again a similar response - change water change water......

So have been debating on buying the multitest - but did the wave the Alert over a bottle of windex and boy did it move to highly toxic fast, so I know the Alert is functioning at least somewhat - the accuracy of it I don't know. This said, my total ammonia at last test in the .2 range so I did not panic.

I believe most chloramine removers break the chloramine into constituent parts and also that many tap water systems have a certain amount of ammonia in the water delivered to your door. I believe the chloramine/chlorine removers that also remove ammonia lock the ammonia into the non toxic form. Asked this of Simply and got no helpful response. Been meaning to call Seachem - they are very helpful - but of course want to sell their products.

So I do note higher PH will tend to lock or convert ammonia into the non toxic form. There is also some sensitivity to the toxic non toxic relationship of ammonia to temperature, but I quite frankly can't make heads or tails of the synopsis in the scholarly articles I saw, tried to bring the scholarly down to practical discus keeping - again little help - seems the change water response is the be all and end all of most responses.

I even noted the extreme drought - did you see the reports on the Sunday news shows of droughts in California? Had noted other recent extreme droughts in the US in the past few years, and posited maybe we should be a little water sensitive, before local laws and regulations "helped us" - got use the grey water on your plants (I do) and even though a 100gal tank at 80%-100% water change responses needed - wont happen, even though such a tank is huge compared to a persons usage -- hmm they are legislating low water use yards - or at least you cant water your yard...... costing many thousands of dollars in landscaping and relandscaping for people.

So anyway hope this helps. I feel like a discus heretic, but suspect you have little to no toxic ammonia and a small amount of non-toxic. I take this reading as safe, but my experience is VERY limited and incomplete. There are test methods out there that may help you distinguish between the forms of ammonia,

Am hoping that low total ammonia readings and no toxic by the Ammonia Alert indicate safe for discus - especially when nitrates and nitrites are 0.

Edit: yep I goofed - If you have high PH and non toxic ammonia clear you should be ok unless lowering PH

[nc0gnet0]

So I do note higher PH will tend to lock or convert ammonia into the non toxic form.

You got this backwards, but no worries.....go change some water already, your discus will love you for it. Ammonia has no place in a discus tank, period!

[oliverk]

Yep your right should have said the reverse.

From a previous post:

Here is a quick reference check googling free ammonia PH one of the top responses a synopsis of a scholarly article and includes the information on the author:

-------------------------------------------
William A. Wurts, Ph.D.

Senior State Specialist for Aquaculture

Kentucky State University CEP at the UK Research and Education Center

P.O. Box 469

Princeton, KY 42445-0469

www.ca.uky.edu/wkrec/Wurtspage.htm




Ammonia is a nitrogen waste released by aquatic animals into the production pond environment. It is a primary byproduct of protein metabolism. Ammonia is excreted directly from the fish gill into the water. Ammonia concentrations are usually at their highest late in the production season when biomass of the cultured species and the amount of protein fed are greatest. Ammonia is toxic to aquatic life and toxicity is affected by pond pH. Ammonia-nitrogen (NH3-N) has a more toxic form at high pH and a less toxic form at low pH, un-ionized ammonia (NH3) and ionized ammonia (NH4+), respectively. In addition, ammonia toxicity increases as temperature rises.

The measure of whether water is acidic, basic (alkaline) or neutral is known as pH. A scale of 1 to 14 is traditionally used, which represents the negative logarithm of the hydrogen ion concentration. A pH of 7.0 is neutral; above 7.0 is basic and below 7.0 is acidic; close to 7.0 is weak and far from 7.0 is strong. It is a common perception that the pH of water is neutral and constant at a value of 7.0. In an environment free of carbon dioxide, aquatic life, and compounds other than H2O; pond pH would remain 7.0 or neutral. However, this combination of conditions is unlikely to occur on our planet. The pH of water is naturally acidic because the atmosphere contains carbon dioxide (CO2). Carbon dioxide readily dissolves into water, raindrops and other sources of water exposed to air, forming a weak acid (H2CO3, carbonic acid). Therefore, events in the aquatic environment that affect CO2 concentrations also affect pH. There are minerals in soil that can dissolve in water to create acidity and alkalinity as well.

--------------------


My taking down to keeping discus lead to it - if at relatively high ph and my Ammonia alert says good - if ph lowers I should become increasingly good. I just don't get in situations where I am trying to raise PH with my tap water.

[DiscusRob]

decided to delete my post for personal reasons

[Driftwood Mike]

Glad the Prime worked for you! Now how about the water changes. Did you increase the amount you were changing? Single most important thing you can do and the ammonia reading will go away in a couple of days. Listen to Mudd you will see a difference in your fish!

[DISCUS STU]

How do my plants; Radican and Mellon Swords, Vallisneria, etc., help in reducing ammonia, nitrate/nitrite, etc and help reduce waste? Are they consuming ammonia or just nitrate? I'm not that up on plants in the cycle.

[DiscusRob]

Stu, just my thoughts, the nitrogen cycle should and does take care of the ammonia and nitrites, the end product being nitrates, plants do live for this, however the effective number is still up for discussion, example given, is look at a bag of fertilizer, pretty heavy in the nitrate department, meant to grow plants. I want a low tech planted discus tank, but the more I read the more I'm learning and I'm still tossing that idea around, as in not sure. I've seen them, and they are drop dead awesome, but.............

I'm sorry for getting off subject, plants will digest nitrates, again, how much depends on how many and what you keep. Still need the wc's :):)

[JohnniG]

Can anyone explain what Prime is? :)

[limige]

kh and gh are 0?
are you using filtered water for your tank? those numbers don't look right unless your running pure ro/di

[DISCUS STU]

Stu, just my thoughts, the nitrogen cycle should and does take care of the ammonia and nitrites, the end product being nitrates, plants do live for this, however the effective number is still up for discussion, example given, is look at a bag of fertilizer, pretty heavy in the nitrate department, meant to grow plants. I want a low tech planted discus tank, but the more I read the more I'm learning and I'm still tossing that idea around, as in not sure. I've seen them, and they are drop dead awesome, but.............

I'm sorry for getting off subject, plants will digest nitrates, again, how much depends on how many and what you keep. Still need the wc's :):)

Sure, of course. There's no substitute for water changes. My tanks, including the planted one, all get regular water changes.