Two Questions about Food

[SwagFish]

Hey Simply,
I am Andy and am starting to get into the discus hobby. I have been doing a lot of research on discus for a good 7 months give or take a little. I am now ready to purchase some discus but I before that I need to get some questions about food out of the way.

First: I know many of you make your own beef heart mixes but to those who buy pre-made beef heart mix: Who do you recommend I buy from? I would make my own beef heart mix but I don't think my Mom would like it very much if I used her prized kitchen appliances for mixing fish food lol. I have looked around and seen Han's mix has gotten good reviews on Simply. I will probably end up buying from him but where do others buy their pre-made beef heart mixes from?

Second: About feeding discus fry... I have seen on http://www.brineshrimpdirect.com/ the Decapsulated (Non-Hatching)Brine Shrimp Eggs and was wondering if anyone has tried feeding this to discus fry in lieu of regular BBS. According to their site the Decapsulated (Non-Hatching)Brine Shrimp Eggs are basically just embryos of brine shrimp which are full of all the nutrients and because the shrimp never hatched there are more nutrients in the Decapsulated (Non-Hatching)Brine Shrimp Eggs than in regular BBS with yolk sacks. So I was wondering cause wouldn’t it be better and more convenient to feed the Decapsulated (Non-Hatching)Brine Shrimp Eggs than the BBS? Or is there really that much of a benefit from the movement of the BBS?

Thanks! And to Mods I hope it is alright that I put two question in one thread I don’t really know if I should have put these into two different threads.
-Andy

[alron2]

Andy,

I make my own mix and yes it makes a mess, but after being married for 47 years my wife has learned to put up with the mess for once or twice a year. If I were you I would give serioud though to what Carol suggest in the URL: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?34961-Carol-s-beefheart-will-not-disolve-in-tank!&highlight=salad+shooter

I have never tried it, but others have. Good luck and remember to post picures of your discus when you purchase them.

Ron

[rickztahone]

If you are serious about discus raising, I would suggest you look at Craiglist and find someone selling a food processor. Go to the dollar store and buy some large zip lock bags or ice cube trays, but the really tiny ones. Then, buy all the ingredients you need and make your own BH. Take it from someone who has bought premade BH, it gets expensive quick. Upfront cost is a lot but in the long run, it isn't so expensive.

[LizStreithorst]

There is no substitute for live BBS for fry. There is for beef heart. Just go to the store and buy 99% fat free ground turkey. Put it in a gallon zip lock bag, stick it in the freezer until it is not quite frozen solid, take it out of the bag, cut it into cubes and put it an a new bag. Your mother won't hate you. You won't make a mess. You won't have to dirty up her kitchen appliances with something she considers gross.

[alron2]

Liz is this what you feed? How hard is it to convert the discus from beef eaters to turkey eaters? Sure sounds a lot easier than what I am doing. Considering I lose half the heart to waste probably not all that much more expensive.
Ron

[SwagFish]

Ron- Thank You for your reply and I will post my discus once I get them. :) Also I was planning on getting the salad shooter so yeh lol

Rick- Yeh I resolved that I would get some new cooking equipment basically just the salad shooter and the food processer.

Liz- Never thought of using ground turkey instead of beef heart. Have you personally used ground turkey and if so for how long? Also as Ron said it would be significantly easier than the beef heart so please tell us more about converting beef to turkey!
Also about the BBS has anyone actually tried using the non hatching decapulated brine shrimp eggs instead of the BBS?

-Andy

[DonMD]

Andy, there are other alternatives to fresh frozen meat. I feed beef heart flakes, and freeze dried black worms (fdbw). Much cleaner than a meat mix, and my fish are growing big. But it's probably more expensive.

I am wondering why you're asking about baby brine shrimp, as you say you are new to discus. Do you plan to jump right in to breeding? That takes a lot of work, and lots of clean water. Once my fry are about 3 weeks old, and still with the parents, I start offering ground up fdbw and diced flakes. It's just another option.

[LizStreithorst]

Andy, I don't use it any more but perhaps I should. I've raised fry to adulthood on it. It does make for fast growth and good round shape if the parents have the genetics for big and round. These days I feed FBW's, a good quality called Teenie Greenie that I get from Captain Bob, and freeze dried blackworms from Dan. When I have fry their first food after BBS is live CBWs. Even when the discus are small they can pick at the live black worms until they eat every bit.

[SwagFish]

I was planning on raising my fish on a diet of Cobalt Discus Flakes, Freeze Dried Australian Blackworms with Spinach, Frozen Bloodworms (occasionally), and the Beef Heart Mix. But from what I am reading from the replies I think best I don't feed the beef heart mix but rather a simpler and easier substitute such as the turkey mix or beef heart flakes.

Yes I plan on jumping right into breeding as I think it would give me the fullest opportunity to learn about discus and raising fish from birth to adulthood. I also plan on purchasing some smaller specimens to grow out from the 2.5-3 inch size.

The main problem though is the discus I have put a deposit on are currently being fed on a main diet of a Beef Heart Mix along with blood worms but are taking flakes as well. Do you think if I were to switch them from the Beef Heart Mix to the Turkey or to just flakes and worms they would be fine?

-Andy

[Altum Nut]

Hello Andy,

This is question brought on quite often and it would be fine. However not all fish will take to the transition so it's best to offer new foods for there first feeding of the day when they are most hungry. You will have to remain patient as it may take time. That transition food will require more attention and remove if not eaten.

...Ralph

[SwagFish]

Ok, so I will first get them settled in with a beef heart mix then wean them off it and onto turkey/flakes.

Thanks,
Andy

[dprais1]

Ok, so I will first get them settled in with a beef heart mix then wean them off it and onto turkey/flakes.

Thanks,
Andy

I had a hard time converting my fish from beefheart to pellets. What worked for me was to mix maybe pellets and beefheart mix together in a 1:1 ratio and let that sit for 5min allowing the pellets absorb the beefheart mix juice/flavor.

They were still reluctant but after 2 days they were eating it a bit.

Then spend 2 days with 75% pellets and 25% beefheart, again, mixing and letting it sit for 5 min.

Finally spend a day or two just letting the juices from the beefheart mix combine with the pellets for 5 min.

This worked well for me.

I have also found that pellets that the discus can swallow very easily whole is easier on many levels than pellets they must chew and spit several times.
I had a hard time getting mine to really take to 1mm nls but I have three other pellets that are smaller that my fish eat very readily in comparison

[SwagFish]

I had a hard time converting my fish from beefheart to pellets. What worked for me was to mix maybe pellets and beefheart mix together in a 1:1 ratio and let that sit for 5min allowing the pellets absorb the beefheart mix juice/flavor.

They were still reluctant but after 2 days they were eating it a bit.

Then spend 2 days with 75% pellets and 25% beefheart, again, mixing and letting it sit for 5 min.

Finally spend a day or two just letting the juices from the beefheart mix combine with the pellets for 5 min.

This worked well for me.

I have also found that pellets that the discus can swallow very easily whole is easier on many levels than pellets they must chew and spit several times.
I had a hard time getting mine to really take to 1mm nls but I have three other pellets that are smaller that my fish eat very readily in comparison

I'll keep that in mind in case they don't take to any of the new foods to soak it in some good ole beef heart juice. :p

Will a diet of a turkey mix, cobalt discus flakes, freeze dried black worms with spinach, and frozen blood worms suffice? Or should I ditch the meat mix all together and replace it with beef heart flake?

-Andy

[LizStreithorst]

Your food choices sound excellent to me. I don't think that you'll have any problem with switching from BH to Turkey. The fish are used to low fat meat and should take to the turkey right away. Personally, although I feed flake food occasionally I have found that the Discus prefer a sinking pellet. They enjoy picking around and grazing from the bottom to eating from the top. But if they are healthy and hungry they'll eat any good quality food and do well on it.

[SwagFish]

Then instead of the Cobalt Flakes would you recommend I feed NLS or Hikari Sinking Discus Pellets?

-Andy

[LizStreithorst]

NLS is excellent food but the fish don't always take to it right away. They will go for the Hikari faster, I bet. I feed Captain Bob's Teenie Greenie. He make fish food as kind of a hobby/business, same as the way Discus are our hobby. He makes his food in small batches and mostly sells to folks that go to the fish swaps up north. His food is priced very reasonably, always fresh, and his customers are a loyal bunch.

[SwagFish]

Do you know where I could look at some of Captain Bob's stuff I can't seem to locate him with a google search only comes up with one closed auction, a few threads on his food, and a bunch of other junk. Does he go by another name?

-Andy

[smallchange]

captainbobsfishtales.com

[LizStreithorst]

This guy is small and wants to stay that way. Like us, he has a real job for making money. His website doesn't even list the Teenie Greenie pellets. They come in regular size wich is great for fish over 3", and 2 smaller sizes, Itsy Bitsy Teenie Greenie and Itsy Bitsy Teenie Weenie Greenie. Shoot him an email. He's a very nice guy. Here's his site: http://www.captainbobsfishtales.com/?page_id=2

[SwagFish]

Ok, Thank you all so much for your help! :)

[pitdogg2]

Liz- Never thought of using ground turkey instead of beef heart. Have you personally used ground turkey and if so for how long? Also as Ron said it would be significantly easier than the beef heart so please tell us more about converting beef to turkey!-Andy

Andy,
Turkey heart is nothing new. In fact Sally's Discus used to make and sell it over the counter like all other BH. The marketing was that it was better that Beef and better for your fish, I can tell you this much I have not seen it sold in a long time in my area. It was sold by San Francisco Bay brand ....edit seems it is now called Cichlid Delight.

[dprais1]

Whenever I start to second guess what I feed my fish I go here http://www.danziger-discus.com/Home_E.html he seems to only feed Tetra color bits with great results.


IMHO color bits is probably one of the lowest quality foods you can buy.....and it is also perfectly good enough to grow out and maintain healthy discus. But probably more important color bits is a very 'clean' food creating little waste and is readily accepted by discus. My point is that even the cheapest 50lb bag of commercial Trout Chow is probably good enough to grow out discus. Water quality is more important to having healthy fish.

I have not read through the entire forum but I can't recall any illness or stunting issues related to what any discus were fed (with the exception of live blackworms several years ago). I can recall lots of stunting and illness related to lack of clean water and, sometimes, not feeding enough food.

of course this is just my opinion.....

[SwagFish]

Andy,
Turkey heart is nothing new. In fact Sally's Discus used to make and sell it over the counter like all other BH. The marketing was that it was better that Beef and better for your fish, I can tell you this much I have not seen it sold in a long time in my area. It was sold by San Francisco Bay brand ....edit seems it is now called Cichlid Delight.

I realized after reading through some recipes many people were using turkey back in '04 lol I will most likely be making a simple mix of some turkey and whatever fish food I have under my stand.


Whenever I start to second guess what I feed my fish I go here http://www.danziger-discus.com/Home_E.html he seems to only feed Tetra color bits with great results.


IMHO color bits is probably one of the lowest quality foods you can buy.....and it is also perfectly good enough to grow out and maintain healthy discus. But probably more important color bits is a very 'clean' food creating little waste and is readily accepted by discus. My point is that even the cheapest 50lb bag of commercial Trout Chow is probably good enough to grow out discus. Water quality is more important to having healthy fish.

I have not read through the entire forum but I can't recall any illness or stunting issues related to what any discus were fed (with the exception of live blackworms several years ago). I can recall lots of stunting and illness related to lack of clean water and, sometimes, not feeding enough food.

of course this is just my opinion.....

I see your point but what I want is the best possible diet for the health & growth of my discus and that's more of why I was asking questions. :)