I'm getting my first discus this week

[AquaAlex]

This Wednesday I will be getting my first discus! My tank is ready to go! Barebottom with a few plants and I plan to do several water changes. I am getting 3-4'' discus to start off. :)

[rickztahone]

Very nice Alex! What did you choose to go with?

[AquaAlex]

Very nice Alex! What did you choose to go with?
Stendkers for my big tank and Asians in QT in the 55.

[rickztahone]

Stendkers for my big tank and Asians in QT in the 55.

very nice. Please keep us updated :)

[DISCUS STU]

Very nice, good luck. Looks like you're doing it the right way!

[MadMatt]

This Wednesday I will be getting my first discus! My tank is ready to go! Barebottom with a few plants and I plan to do several water changes. I am getting 3-4'' discus to start off. :)
Congrats!!!
Welcome to a hobby that is almost addictive as crack!...lol
The smartest thing you ever did is become part of this forum, it's a wealth of information and the members here are incredibly helpfully and ultra experienced, if you have a hiccup don't be afraid to post and ask, someone here has probably gone thru the same thing and now has the answer you need. :)
The biggest thing when starting a discus tank is, make sure it's cycled! Absolutely no ammonia or nitrite spikes, Keep your ph solid like Rock and use minimal chemicals as possible. Aging water is best but seachem safe is a good alternative if you have to.
Discus have a social order as you will soon find out, they are one of the worlds most social fish with their owners.
Keep them healthy and happy, your their only world they have.
Best of luck and we are hear for you if you need us.
:)

[AquaAlex]

Congrats!!!
Welcome to a hobby that is almost addictive as crack!...lol
The smartest thing you ever did is become part of this forum, it's a wealth of information and the members here are incredibly helpfully and ultra experienced, if you have a hiccup don't be afraid to post and ask, someone here has probably gone thru the same thing and now has the answer you need. :)
The biggest thing when starting a discus tank is, make sure it's cycled! Absolutely no ammonia or nitrite spikes, Keep your ph solid like Rock and use minimal chemicals as possible. Aging water is best but seachem safe is a good alternative if you have to.
Discus have a social order as you will soon find out, they are one of the worlds most social fish with their owners.
Keep them healthy and happy, your their only world they have.
Best of luck and we are hear for you if you need us.
:)

Thanks for the info. The 120 should be fully cycled by now. I am getting a new API master test kit because my last one I stepped one by accident during a water change... ouch thank god I wore shoes that day.
Discus really need there water to be Ammonia 0 right? What should the nitrite level be?

[MadMatt]

Thanks for the info. The 120 should be fully cycled by now. I am getting a new API master test kit because my last one I stepped one by accident during a water change... ouch thank god I wore shoes that day.
Discus really need there water to be Ammonia 0 right? What should the nitrite level be?
Yes!... They need zero zero and more zero toxins in the tank. A high level of nitrite of ammonia will cause huge amount of stress on them and later down the road they will get sick.
Best to not even let that happen, keep everything at zero, and it should be smooth riding!

Keep a look out how much they are eating, the first signs of sickness if not eating or pooping white, when you feed always watch to see who eats and who doesnt.
:)

[AquaAlex]

Yes!... They need zero zero and more zero toxins in the tank. A high level of nitrite of ammonia will cause huge amount of stress on them and later down the road they will get sick.
Best to not even let that happen, keep everything at zero, and it should be smooth riding!

Keep a look out how much they are eating, the first signs of sickness if not eating or pooping white, when you feed always watch to see who eats and who doesnt.
:)

So my readings should be zero ammonia and zero nitrate or very low nitrate right?

[AquaAlex]

Just checked my ph is 6.4.... should I bring up a little bit higher?

[jmf3460]

congrats on the fish Alex. Yes very little to zero nitrates. Adults can handle low nitrate levels pretty well but juvies cannot. have your fish arrived yet??

[alron2]

Just checked my ph is 6.4.... should I bring up a little bit higher?

No, leave it alone. Just make sure your PH remains constant. You will do a lot more harm trying to adjust it than you will do good.

Ron

[discuspaul]

No, leave it alone. Just make sure your PH remains constant. You will do a lot more harm trying to adjust it than you will do good.

Ron

Agree. You may need to age your water to maintain stability.
Check that out by testing the pH straight out of the tap; after sitting in a bucket overnite; then following having sat in your tank for a day after a wc, to insure there is relative consistency, with no large swing evident.

[AquaAlex]

congrats on the fish Alex. Yes very little to zero nitrates. Adults can handle low nitrate levels pretty well but juvies cannot. have your fish arrived yet??

They haved they are at the lfs right now. They told me discus came in fine but the only downfall is that the owner told me my pigeon blood came in with peppering... :( he is giving me the option of either getting 2 more in his place or get him for half price. he is 3-4'' and $40 but he'd be 20 if I got him. There are some that will need an ID when i get them.. They are blueish color with red stripes. maybe some sort of turquoise?
Forgot to add, I am getting them in under 1 hour.

[AquaAlex]

Here they are! :)
I know there is 1 blood pigeon. Are the other 4 red turquoise>?

[jmf3460]

yes the other four do look like red turquoise. They look to be young, take good care of them and keep up with you daily waterchanges and they should grow up to be vey nice,

[AquaAlex]

yes the other four do look like red turquoise. They look to be young, take good care of them and keep up with you daily waterchanges and they should grow up to be vey nice,

Is 10 percent daily too small?

[ExtremeDiscus]

As far as I know, it should be 25%. Speaking of that, I got to do WC today. It had been more than a few days for my tank.

[ExtremeDiscus]

Here they are! :)
I know there is 1 blood pigeon. Are the other 4 red turquoise>?

They looks very nice.

[AquaAlex]

They looks very nice.

thanks. I look forward to the challenge of raising them....
The LFS said I picked all his best. He brings in the best quality.
H

[ExtremeDiscus]

thanks. I look forward to the challenge of raising them....
The LFS said I picked all his best. He brings in the best quality.
H

Glad that they are. Keep us posted on how they do with the new home. :D

[MadMatt]

Just checked my ph is 6.4.... should I bring up a little bit higher?

This is what I posted on a thread when someone was asking about ph:


Congrats on the wild discus.
This is my experience and advice from experienced breeders:
I always kept my discus at 6.2. I have wild and domestic discus, I think with all my discus I may have 50-60, I also have five pairs and one is wild caught.
I was having a super challenge with fighting with my city tap water and treating with too many chemicals and attempting to breed my pairs.
Out of frustration I posted here on SD, I asked what should I do, everyone told me to drop the chemicals, age water to avoid ph swings, blend with RO to lower TDS so I can have higher fertilization rates.
So I trusted the advice of the breeder, and this was the result:
My city water comes from lake St.clair in Ontario Canada, the ph is 8.27.
It took me about of week of 10% water changes daily with non-treated aged tap water to acclimated my entire collection of tanks from 6.2 to 8.27.
I can tell you ALL my discus are happy and healthy even my yellow golden wild.
When breeding I blend with 80% RO (I am still working on the breeding thing, but things are improving).
This is my conclusion:
Discus can live in high PH, however they really need clean water, no ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and frequent water changes to remove all the pathogens in the water from building up toxins.
Make your PH stable, it's the stability Of ph in the water they need not the ph level.
I would suggest that: lower ph gives the water more hydrogen atoms, when these fluctuate (like ph swings) this stresses the discus (giving them a huge hangover), if they remain stressed they will become very ill. However ph is like a temperature, you can acclimate your discuss to 88 degrees or acclimate them to 81 degrees but if you swing the temp too much too fast it will stress the discus. Ph is similar however much more serious, and the discus stresses out when the hydrogen fluctuates in the water.
My advice for what it's worth:
Acclimate your discus to your aged tap water, do not add any chemicals, just age your water. Get a digital PH meter ($20), see how long it takes to age the water so the ph is stable. Most city's treat their city tap water with carbonate or bicarbonate, if so the ph will swing as it ages, once it stops swinging you have evacuated all the city buffering out of the water and the ph will be stable, this is the water you want to use.
If you use chemicals I truly believe it's general toxic to the discus, just age the water to stabilize ph and use that.
As long as the ph is stable like a rock they won't care, but if you play with chemicals your ph will forever swing and your discus will feeling like they have a "1999 New Year's Eve hang over".
Mine are all at 8.27, very happy, no problems, and it's cheaper!
:)

[MadMatt]

Is 10 percent daily too small?

Get a couple of barrels you are going to need them to age your water, 120g is nice, I have a 120g long in my master bedroom, the biggest challenge is the water changes in a large tank. I have a transfer pump, I fill 55g barrel age 24hrs then pump water into 120g tank.
I try to change 30% every other day but I know I should do everyday. If I slack off the fish tend look stressed after a few days. Also while discus grow they emit growth hormone into the water, once there is so much growth hormone in the water the fish will develop slower growth, thus why breeders change the water 2-3 times a day, usually set up on a Automated or drip system.

[AquaAlex]

I just got off the phone and after speaking with one of the employees who keeps discus he thinks I took the 3 red turquoise, the royal blue, and of course the pigeon blood. Can anyone tell if 1 is a royal blue?

[jmf3460]

they all look like red turquoise to me. 10% daily is wayyy to small, I would up it to 50% daily. Get a 55 gallon brute trash can, fill it at night before bed and let an air stone bubble in there over night, the next day do you wc. my routine is I fill my bucket in the morning before work and do my wc when I get home from work before starting supper.

[Keith Perkins]

The bigger percentage of water you change daily the better growth rate and ultimate end result.

In answer to your earlier question; Ammonia readings should be 0, Nitrite readings should be 0, Nitrate levels are highly debatable but most have them somewhere in the single digits. Nitrates should not be 0, that indicates Nitrite or Ammonia isn't 0 and you have a problem.

[AquaAlex]

The bigger percentage of water you change daily the better growth rate and ultimate end result.

In answer to your earlier question; Ammonia readings should be 0, Nitrite readings should be 0, Nitrate levels are highly debatable but most have them somewhere in the single digits. Nitrates should not be 0, that indicates Nitrite or Ammonia isn't 0 and you have a problem.
Ok awesome. Thank you guys for all your help.
Discus keeping turns out not to be difficult as people made it out to be. So I just feed the discus two small feedings, a 50 percent water change daily, and keep the ph and temp stable? That's simple. Just checked my water levels with my api test kit and everything is checking out fine. :) Awesome. My nitrites and Ammonia tested out at 0 ppm. :)

[strawberryblonde]

Two small feedings a day will result in stunted discus.

I don't know how big your discus are from the pics, but they look to be quite young. They will require 5 or 6 small feedings a day of high quality, high protein foods designed for discus.

For water changes, you might be able to get away with 50% per day since they are in a large tank, but from what I can see you've violated one of the basic rules already - didn't you add these discus to a tank that already has other fish in it?

Discus require a QT period of 4-6 weeks before adding them in with other fish. Normally you'd QT for a couple of weeks, observing for any symptoms of disease, then add one "hero" discus from the QT into the main tank and again, observe for signs of illness.

If there are no signs during the remainder of the 6 week period, you'd then be safe to integrate the two tanks. If symptoms do occur during that QT, the worst that happens is that you lose your hero fish but that the remaining discus in QT will stay healthy.

Now that they've been mixed together, I'd recommend close monitoring, changing even more water daily in order to keep it as pristine as possible and testing for a bump in ammonia, nitrites and nitrates at least once a day.

Ammonia and nitrites usually take a couple of days to start showing up when you add new fish to a tank. An increased bio-load causes it and the only thing you can do is monitor it and change a LOT of water in order to reduce the levels until the filters catch up to the new bio-load.

[MadMatt]

Two small feedings a day will result in stunted discus.

I don't know how big your discus are from the pics, but they look to be quite young. They will require 5 or 6 small feedings a day of high quality, high protein foods designed for discus.

For water changes, you might be able to get away with 50% per day since they are in a large tank, but from what I can see you've violated one of the basic rules already - didn't you add these discus to a tank that already has other fish in it?

Discus require a QT period of 4-6 weeks before adding them in with other fish. Normally you'd QT for a couple of weeks, observing for any symptoms of disease, then add one "hero" discus from the QT into the main tank and again, observe for signs of illness.

If there are no signs during the remainder of the 6 week period, you'd then be safe to integrate the two tanks. If symptoms do occur during that QT, the worst that happens is that you lose your hero fish but that the remaining discus in QT will stay healthy.

Now that they've been mixed together, I'd recommend close monitoring, changing even more water daily in order to keep it as pristine as possible and testing for a bump in ammonia, nitrites and nitrates at least once a day.

Ammonia and nitrites usually take a couple of days to start showing up when you add new fish to a tank. An increased bio-load causes it and the only thing you can do is monitor it and change a LOT of water in order to reduce the levels until the filters catch up to the new bio-load.

+1
Toni is right on the money!

[AquaAlex]

Two small feedings a day will result in stunted discus.

I don't know how big your discus are from the pics, but they look to be quite young. They will require 5 or 6 small feedings a day of high quality, high protein foods designed for discus.

For water changes, you might be able to get away with 50% per day since they are in a large tank, but from what I can see you've violated one of the basic rules already - didn't you add these discus to a tank that already has other fish in it?

Discus require a QT period of 4-6 weeks before adding them in with other fish. Normally you'd QT for a couple of weeks, observing for any symptoms of disease, then add one "hero" discus from the QT into the main tank and again, observe for signs of illness.

If there are no signs during the remainder of the 6 week period, you'd then be safe to integrate the two tanks. If symptoms do occur during that QT, the worst that happens is that you lose your hero fish but that the remaining discus in QT will stay healthy.

Now that they've been mixed together, I'd recommend close monitoring, changing even more water daily in order to keep it as pristine as possible and testing for a bump in ammonia, nitrites and nitrates at least once a day.

Ammonia and nitrites usually take a couple of days to start showing up when you add new fish to a tank. An increased bio-load causes it and the only thing you can do is monitor it and change a LOT of water in order to reduce the levels until the filters catch up to the new bio-load.

Thank you Toni for stepping in and helping me AVOID big mistakes!
Ok so 5-6 feedings a day it will be. And hey I enjoy feeding fish so this should be fun. I think it's cool to see fish eat. I just fed my discus Hikari Frozen bloodworms and this is the 3rd time today. I feed at 8 am, 12 noon, and now it's 5 pm.
So I just sent my mom out for a 75 foot python so water changes should be a breeze now.
So I will strive to do atleast 50 percent water changes daily.
As far as tankmates, the only fish that are with the discus are my 4 angels who have been in QT. I stopped QTING about a week ago as their feces were normal and they showed no signs of illness. There is also 1 blue phantom and 1 royal who were QTED along with angels. I am not adding anything else for about 3 weeks which will be some sort of tetra.
The angels are doing fine with the discus so far. Matter of fact, they are scared of the pigeon blood. Not sure why.
One question I have: the pigeon blood and my largest red turqouise seem to be the dominant 2 of the 5. They hog all the food and will chase the smaller 3 non stop. How do I solve this? Should I hand feed the smaller 3 to ensure they get food? Looking it right now, I see the pigeon blood and my larger red with full bellies.
The pigeon is close to 4'' (maybe 3.5''), the largest red turquoise is the same, and the other 3 appear to be +- 3''.

[alron2]

Place food in each side of the aquarium where everyone will have a better chance at the food.

Ron

[MadMatt]

Thank you Toni for stepping in and helping me AVOID big mistakes!
Ok so 5-6 feedings a day it will be. And hey I enjoy feeding fish so this should be fun. I think it's cool to see fish eat. I just fed my discus Hikari Frozen bloodworms and this is the 3rd time today. I feed at 8 am, 12 noon, and now it's 5 pm.
So I just sent my mom out for a 75 foot python so water changes should be a breeze now.
So I will strive to do atleast 50 percent water changes daily.
As far as tankmates, the only fish that are with the discus are my 4 angels who have been in QT. I stopped QTING about a week ago as their feces were normal and they showed no signs of illness. There is also 1 blue phantom and 1 royal who were QTED along with angels. I am not adding anything else for about 3 weeks which will be some sort of tetra.
The angels are doing fine with the discus so far. Matter of fact, they are scared of the pigeon blood. Not sure why.
One question I have: the pigeon blood and my largest red turqouise seem to be the dominant 2 of the 5. They hog all the food and will chase the smaller 3 non stop. How do I solve this? Should I hand feed the smaller 3 to ensure they get food? Looking it right now, I see the pigeon blood and my larger red with full bellies.
The pigeon is close to 4'' (maybe 3.5''), the largest red turquoise is the same, and the other 3 appear to be +- 3''.

If you drop food in two or three different areas at the same time, they will have a hard time fighting over it then if you drop food in one area.
As far as what your feeding them:
Many people have mixed opinions on a balanced diet for discus, thru my experience I wouldn't feed them blood worms more then once a week, at our place we never feed any of our Discus blood worms, I know some people do, however if you over feed blood worms they can become constipated and development an intestinal bacteria infection.
Also every time I acquired a Discus from someone that kept the discus with angles they always were ill. Angles carry possible infections and or parasites that are A-symtomatice to the angel but leathal to the Discus.
IMO:
I know Discus and angel fish look great together, but if your serious about Discus and their health I would suggest just doing a Discus in a the tank and angels in another, angels tend to be food hogs too, limiting the food your Discus will get a chance to eat. If you do keep you angles in Discus together I suggest you treat with dewormer plus ever other month at least. I know others may have different opinions but this is my experiences.

[ExtremeDiscus]

For me, I have been feeding them 2 - 3 times a day. (Flakes, tetra color and frozen bloodworm).

[MadMatt]

For me, I have been feeding them 2 - 3 times a day. (Flakes, tetra color and frozen bloodworm).
IMO:
I would Drop the blood worms, only feed that once a week at most, unless you want to risk a intestinal infection.
Best thing is to make your own food, there are many recipes people have posted from beef hearts to learn ground beef to assorted fish and shrimp mashed with vitamins and mixed in flake food.

I wish you the best but I am just letting you know from my experience that if you feed frozen blood worms too much they will get sick sooner or later, depending on how much and how often you feed them.

[ExtremeDiscus]

IMO:
I would Drop the blood worms, only feed that once a week at most, unless you want to risk a intestinal infection.
Best thing is to make your own food, there are many recipes people have posted from beef hearts to learn ground beef to assorted fish and shrimp mashed with vitamins and mixed in flake food.

I wish you the best but I am just letting you know from my experience that if you feed frozen blood worms too much they will get sick sooner or later, depending on how much and how often you feed them.

Thanks for the advice MadMatt. I will only let them eat bloodworm once a week. They mostly eat the flakes and tetra color anyway. They finally willing to eat tetra color, but keep spitting out the flakes. Not sure if I wants to make my own food. The wife probably will kill me for messing up the kitchen. etc... LOL!

[warblad79]

IMO:
I would Drop the blood worms, only feed that once a week at most, unless you want to risk a intestinal infection.
Best thing is to make your own food, there are many recipes people have posted from beef hearts to learn ground beef to assorted fish and shrimp mashed with vitamins and mixed in flake food.

I wish you the best but I am just letting you know from my experience that if you feed frozen blood worms too much they will get sick sooner or later, depending on how much and how often you feed them.


Wow! I don't know where you get that information, I've seen a lot of people feeding Hikari blood worms without any issue. The reason why they don't feed it too often because they get addictive to bloodworm then refuse other food and also it doesn't have much nutritional value but you can still feed as a treat. So it doesn't mean you have to stop feeding them with bloodworms.

[ExtremeDiscus]

Wow! I don't know where you get that information, I've seen a lot of people feeding Hikari blood worms without any issue. The reason why they don't feed it too often because they get addictive to bloodworm then refuse other food and also it doesn't have much nutritional value but you can still feed as a treat. So it doesn't mean you have to stop feeding them with bloodworms.

Thanks warblad79. Will keep that in mind.

[MadMatt]

Wow! I don't know where you get that information, I've seen a lot of people feeding Hikari blood worms without any issue. The reason why they don't feed it too often because they get addictive to bloodworm then refuse other food and also it doesn't have much nutritional value but you can still feed as a treat. So it doesn't mean you have to stop feeding them with bloodworms.
I don't see any benefit to feeding them this food. Lots of other much more healthier food then FBW.
It's expensive in ratio to the physical benifits.
If anyone wants to respectfully disagree on the illness part that's totally there prerogative, do some research and do what you think is best. I have done mine, thousands of hrs of research, personally speaking with breeders in other cities on there 30-40 years of experience in raising and keeping Discus healthy, plus my experience in treating illness in my discus, most of the time I acquire sick fish on death doors and me and my wife have been successful in bring them back, not all the time but 95% of the time we can bring them back.
We personally don't feed any of our discus FBW, just because a lot of people do it doesn't mean it's good, a lot of people smoke cigarettes does this make it healthy?
However, kens fish makes a bunch of great flake food, beefhearts, black worms, premium, etc... Super cheap too!
I would look into that.
:)

[warblad79]

I don't see any benefit to feeding them this food. Lots of other much more healthier food then FBW.
It's expensive in ratio to the physical benifits.
If anyone wants to respectfully disagree on the illness part that's totally there prerogative, do some research and do what you think is best. I have done mine, thousands of hrs of research, personally speaking with breeders in other cities on there 30-40 years of experience in raising and keeping Discus healthy, plus my experience in treating illness in my discus, most of the time I acquire sick fish on death doors and me and my wife have been successful in bring them back, not all the time but 95% of the time we can bring them back.
We personally don't feed any of our discus FBW, just because a lot of people do it doesn't mean it's good, a lot of people smoke cigarettes does this make it healthy?
However, kens fish makes a bunch of great flake food, beefhearts, black worms, premium, etc... Super cheap too!
I would look into that.
:)

I bet a lot of people will disagree on you, if they don't have benefits otherwise a lot businesses should be close by now. Asian breeders used them for breeding to speed up the spawning process.

[MadMatt]

I bet a lot of people will disagree on you, if they don't have benefits otherwise a lot businesses should be close by now. Asian breeders used them for breeding to speed up the spawning process.

I agree a lot of Asian store sell it like mad...lol
I use to feed mine FBW as well, not any more.