Prophylactic treatment of discus [Archive]

bluelagoon

07-03-2015, 09:04 AM

This was just in general, so nothing until symptoms show up.
I know some people that keep discus and to a treatment with API general cure on by monthly basis as maintenance.

Wow 7-14 days a month;seems like a lot of antibiotics/dewormer to me.When antibiotics are used less than a week to 14 days treatments are useless.A few days won't cut it and could make the bacteria develop resistance to the drug.

MadMatt

07-03-2015, 05:12 PM

Wow 7-14 days a month;seems like a lot of antibiotics/dewormer to me.When antibiotics are used less than a week to 14 days treatments are useless.A few days won't cut it and could make the bacteria develop resistance to the drug.
Some people use the dewormer plus every other month as a maintenance to reduce parasites.

bluelagoon

07-04-2015, 10:38 AM

I have only medicated my discus with one treatment with prazi in five years that was a few months ago.The discus in question at that time was an 8" discus 5 years old,the first time he was ever medicated.

nc0gnet0

07-04-2015, 01:19 PM

Is it a good idea to do a prophylactic treatment of discus tank?
If yes, what would you use?

Nope, It's a terrible idea.

nc0gnet0

07-04-2015, 01:19 PM

Some people use the dewormer plus every other month as a maintenance to reduce parasites.

????????????

wcav

07-04-2015, 01:36 PM

Leave well enough alone...if it ain't broke don't fix it.Sure you hear that before.If you observe a sick fish, that is the time to treat accordingly.

rickztahone

07-04-2015, 01:59 PM

As others have mentioned, this is not a good idea, especially with anti biotics. If you do research about anti-biotics, you will learn that bacteria develops an immunity to all antibiotics eventually. This is not only true for discus, but for every other species in the world, including humans. We are living in an age where anti biotics are no longer as effective as they once were. This is in large part due to practices like the one you are considering. If you treat something prophylactically, you are in turn strengthening the immunities of these bacterias. I hate to get a little off base here, but this is the reason that when you go in to the doctors office, you should not be given an anti biotic for a virus. ANTI BIOTICS DO NOTHING AGAINST VIRUSES and people taking these anti biotics for such things are making super bugs that are becoming more and more resistant to drugs.

[/rant]

MadMatt

07-04-2015, 06:56 PM

????????????
I never said it was a good idea, I was merely stating some people do.
Would it be a good idea to treat a perfectly healthy tank??? I would suggest NO, but some people have a variety of reasons for some "necessary actions".
I suppose if they are getting superior results they should keep doing what there doing, if their results are poor maybe they should concider changing it.

nc0gnet0

07-04-2015, 07:24 PM

I never said it was a good idea, I was merely stating some people do.
Would it be a good idea to treat a perfectly healthy tank??? I would suggest NO, but some people have a variety of reasons for some "necessary actions".
I suppose if they are getting superior results they should keep doing what there doing, if their results are poor maybe they should concider changing it.

Were are these "some people anyways"?

MadMatt

07-05-2015, 10:13 PM

Were are these "some people anyways"?
I would suggsest miss lead individuals that don't had the privledge of the wealth of knowledge that is here on SD.
Check out the propaganda:
http://youtu.be/AwfyILdTBD4

MadMatt

07-05-2015, 10:17 PM

Here is another guy that suggests using dewormer plus every month and when you put new discus in.
http://youtu.be/53k-I8U3TpE

MadMatt

07-05-2015, 10:19 PM

Here is another guy that suggests using dewormer plus every month and when you put new discus in.
http://youtu.be/53k-I8U3TpE

I am not suggesting this is a correct care for Discus, I'm just saying others suggest this habit.
What does everyone think?

bluelagoon

07-06-2015, 11:14 AM

He's in a pet shop.A place where disease and what not are being introduced on a daily bases.Looks like their systems filter multi tanks as well.That's what I think.

Tres

07-09-2015, 05:48 PM

DISCUS STU

07-13-2015, 04:48 PM

In regards to prophylactics, they say it's always better to be safe then sorry. If you're new to discus, or getting back into the scene after a long absence, prophylactics are a must-have accessory—and when used correctly, they are your best defence against transmitted diseases. So I always make sure to keep condoms over any new discus for at least the first few weeks, and sometimes longer if for instance I happened to pick any cheap ones up in anyplace that looked questionable...

I agree. I've just picked up four juvenile "Diamonds in the Rough", three from one lfs and another not so rough from another lfs. Prices were right and the fish all looked like they had very good qualities to become nice fish. I also have a fondness for this sort of thing. I've done this before with good results, see image.

All were, and are, being treated in quarantine with Metro, Prazi, and some Fenbendazole flakes (alternate days) as I have no idea of what kind of stuff may be floating around in their original tanks. All are doing well and look to have a bright future. 50% water changes every day, bb tanks of course.88383

warblad79

07-13-2015, 05:04 PM

In regards to prophylactics, they say it's always better to be safe then sorry. If you're new to discus, or getting back into the scene after a long absence, prophylactics are a must-have accessory—and when used correctly, they are your best defence against transmitted diseases. So I always make sure to keep condoms over any new discus for at least the first few weeks, and sometimes longer if for instance I happened to pick any cheap ones up in anyplace that looked questionable....

Treatment base solely on person good analysis and observation. It's good to have a backup medication but I don't medicate unless if necessary. That's why buy only from reliable source and also Craigslist is out of the question. I would never buy any fish from craigslist or LFS even if they came from Kenny or Hans. I'll go directly from the source.

israelillo81

07-13-2015, 08:20 PM

I have used Kusuri Wormer in the past with lots of success (once a month). I noticed a fierce appetite on my fish . I have not used it further because i haven't been able to source it again here in Singapore. I also think it is a good practice to add smaller dosages of antibiotic for new fish in quarantine. Here in Singapore one of the discus gurus recommended me to add a half dosage of Oxytetracycline on the water for 3 days as a prophylactic method.

nc0gnet0

07-13-2015, 09:55 PM

I don't think I have ever seen such a collection of blatantly bad advice such as this ever before. 1/2 doses of medication. Tossing everything but the kitchen sink in the tank because they "might" have something. Good Lord. Aside from a one time worming in Qt, there is no need to medicate your fish unless they are showing symptoms, period. Doing so is akin to adding small does of poison to your tank, each and every time. These treatments come at a cost. They are toxic to parasites and bacteria for a reason. Each and everytime you use these medications you are adding unnecessary stress do the fish's liver and kidneys, and shortening their lifespan. You should only use them (medications) when the result of not using them is much worse.

What's worse is that your allowing bacteria and parasites to develop an immunity to these drugs and creating superbugs in the process. Have we learned nothing?

So stop buying "iffy" fish from questionable sources, do a proper qt and observe, not medicate.

Len

07-13-2015, 10:03 PM

agree 100%. Some folks are just too fast to throw anything and everything in their tanks without knowing if meds are required. In a lot of cases, they don't even know what exactly the meds/chemicals are and how they work -- but toss them in anyway just because.

Tres

07-14-2015, 08:08 AM

In regards to prophylactics, they say it's always better to be safe then sorry. If you're new to discus, or getting back into the scene after a long absence, prophylactics are a must-have accessory—and when used correctly, they are your best defence against transmitted diseases. So I always make sure to keep condoms over any new discus for at least the first few weeks, and sometimes longer if for instance I happened to pick any cheap ones up in anyplace that looked questionable...

(Facepalm). Okay, apologies if playing ironically upon the term prophylactics caused any confusion here. I do NOT tie new discus inside condoms for the first few weeks that they had been introduced into a tank... I thought that might have been self-evident, but perhaps not. : / The language was even copied from a website about STD's.

There is nevertheless a constructive discussion to have here, and I can agree about the concern about the toxicity of medicine, and the risk of antibiotic resistance resulting from half-doses. Len, can you advise what you use for deworming by the way, and whether you know if this treatment is effective against most parasites by the way?

Len

07-14-2015, 03:17 PM

I don't deworm my fish on a regular basis, only when getting in new wilds. I use prazi then Levimisole. I don't treat beyond that unless I see evidence suggesting another problem.

DISCUS STU

07-14-2015, 04:05 PM

I don't deworm my fish on a regular basis, only when getting in new wilds. I use prazi then Levimisole. I don't treat beyond that unless I see evidence suggesting another problem.

Can you recommend a good source for Levimisole?

rickztahone

07-14-2015, 04:30 PM

Can you recommend a good source for Levimisole?

here you go:
http://subquaria.com/Levamisole-HCl-Powder

:)

Len

07-14-2015, 04:34 PM

In the US, I'm not sure off hand, but I seem to remember Rick posting a link somewhere here on the forum. Perhaps he will see and chime in.

Tres

07-14-2015, 04:36 PM

I've bought Levamisole from Vita King Products in a convenient water soluble where it was sold for worming pigeons.

In regards to otherwise treating fish in quarantine I'm still a bit split actually. The next time I'm doing a new tank I was considering not medicating my discus but then medicating any other fish that I add in. I had a bad experience where I added one new species into a mixed non-discus tank which had looked fine in quarantine, but that apparently was nevertheless carrying something it was resistant to as shortly thereafter most of the other species quickly succumbed to something with nonspecific symptoms even.

On the reef side of the aquarium hobby, the better trusted shops seem to run copper in the tanks in which they stock fish. I appreciate that's not ideal for the fish unfortunately, but that treatment does seem effective against most ailments which saltwater fish could suffer from. So I have my trusted local store hold any new purchases I make in their copper treated system for a bit before adding it to my reef if it happened to be fresh from the distributor.

DISCUS STU

07-15-2015, 11:29 AM

here you go:
http://subquaria.com/Levamisole-HCl-Powder

:)

Found them but at $19.95 for 10 grams, $136 for 50 grams, ad infinitum, this seemed a little costly and was hoping to find a less expensive source.

P.S. - Found this on Ebay for $26 for 48 grarms, free shipping. Yes, I know it's Ebay (lol) and caveat emptor (buyer beware) may apply. Bought it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Prohibit-Levamisole-Hydrochloride-Soluble-Powder-Wormer-Sheep-and-Cattle-52g-/301683655456?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item463dbf4320

nc0gnet0

07-15-2015, 03:34 PM

Tres

07-16-2015, 08:26 AM

http://www.angelsplus.com/MedsParasite.htm

I suggest staying away from the pigeon and sheep products. Most contain sugars which will lead to a bacterial bloom in the tank and make things really cloudy.

Thanks, does that sugar happen to be listed in any labelling by the way, or is there any other way to verify whether it has it? Apart from tasting it... But thanks for the link to the aquarium product, I'm not sure why it seemed almost impossible to find the other year.

rickztahone

07-16-2015, 07:00 PM

Thanks, does that sugar happen to be listed in any labelling by the way, or is there any other way to verify whether it has it? Apart from tasting it... But thanks for the link to the aquarium product, I'm not sure why it seemed almost impossible to find the other year.

I'd refrain from tasting medications ;)

Tres

07-17-2015, 06:38 AM

I'd refrain from tasting medications ;)

Oh would you? Are you suggesting you would dare to treat your discus with something which you hadn't tested out on yourself first to make sure it is safe? What kind of a strange discus enthusiast are you, and are you sure you're therefore on the right forum?!? I suppose next you're going to tell me you support making laboratory testing of medicine on humans illegal before those are given to animals?

It behooves us to be careful however, for I'd heard a lot of Levamisole that is available on the market isn't that pure and has been cut with cocaine, unless I misheard that and it was the other way around.

;)

bluelagoon

07-17-2015, 11:06 AM

Oh would you? Are you suggesting you would dare to treat your discus with something which you hadn't tested out on yourself first to make sure it is safe? What kind of a strange discus enthusiast are you, and are you sure you're therefore on the right forum?!? I suppose next you're going to tell me you support making laboratory testing of medicine on humans illegal before those are given to animals?

It behooves us to be careful however, for I'd heard a lot of Levamisole that is available on the market isn't that pure and has been cut with cocaine, unless I misheard that and it was the other way around.

;)

OMG,never trust a crack user.They'll put anything in your cocaine.LOL

Arizona Discus

08-05-2015, 12:14 PM

I came on simply this morning searching for the overuse of medications. I wanted to see what the consensus was. I have been noticing a trend of discus keepers that seem to be hypochondriacs. If anyone has been on Facebook recently you would be amazed at the amount of posts mentioning the use of various medications. I have never seen so much supposed disease in all my years in this hobby. I saw a post from a person who had quarantined her new discus in a metro and delos for an entire month. After coming out of quarantine she posted pictures of a discus with slime coat issues and immediately people suggested it was hole in the head and to immediately return it to Metro treatment. Followed by a long discussion of how great different medications perform. This story and others like it are the new norm it seems. The hobby is turning into a veterinary hobby as opposed to a discus hobby.
It is as if people are measuring their discus knowledge by their medication knowledge. If I can ramble off 20 discus medications, their use and their ingredients, then I am a pro. I suggest the opposite it true. If you are keeping discus properly you will rarely if ever have the need for medication.
If one chooses to medicate every time they think their discus looked at them crossways, they will end up with a discus with damaged organs, stressed, lower immune system and likely creating resistant strains that will wipe out the hobby in the future.
Just my two cents ;-)