Tefe Greens

[woopaul5]

After much thought and consideration I decided that I really wanted to get into Wild Discus. They look so amazing and just how they act once accustomed to their environment. Alenquer reds and Tefe Greens where my top two choices... I ended up going with the Tefe Green that Mark from Discus Origins had. The excitement began and I had my 40 breeder set up from my prior QT. I set the parameters for wilds... since the filter was cycled prior all I had to do was clean and adjust TDS to 70 and GH to 2 and pH stabilized at 6.0. Figured I was set and waited for a day I could take off so I could be here for the arrival and acclimation.... Then UPS happened...

Since beginning 2015 I've been really hesitant in using UPS locally. Not saying they are bad everywhere but they have been sub-par in Rancho Sahuarita (my community in AZ). A lot of mishandled packages and no consistent delivery times. After speaking to the delivery driver after 2 days of mishaps (Thurs and Fri last week 9-10 July) last week he explained after the discus incident that they have been having issues with there loaders there...a lot of mis-deliverys and damaged packages...ETC

Well enough for dramatic effect but lets say I'm lucky to have my Tefe's for now... below is what my unboxing looked like

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/E084CBE1-E759-479E-BD08-CC194E6BBBFE.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/E084CBE1-E759-479E-BD08-CC194E6BBBFE.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/FCE02C3E-8CB8-4291-87DD-3406C7EB255A.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/FCE02C3E-8CB8-4291-87DD-3406C7EB255A.jpg.html)

Pics where taken after fish were acclimated...

I panicked at first and went into action. I dropped the bags into the QT tank... I'm glad I decided to check how much water loss was for each bag (blacked out for shipping). First bag opened was a bag with a inch of water and a upside down Tefe that I thought was dead. Upon closer inspection it was barley breathing. I dumped water into the bag to see if it would move...to no avail. I sat it right side up and hoped for the best. On to bag two... punctured with slightly more water that first. I may of acted quickly but i dumped out the bad water and discus into nets and dropped them in. To my surprise they both weren't dead... Extremely stressed and barley living...

At this point I contacted Mark. He was upset as much as I was. He then gave me a lot of information on how to take care of them the next few days... let me tell you I was one panicked person for a few days... Constant questions. Mark if you happen to read this I cannot thank you enough... there were several mistakes I made in my QT to begin with (Sand/decorations/added corydoras and Rams prior to discus arrival to keep tank cycled). I really didn't know what to do... Mark assured me that he often gets Discus in this condition and it requires a lot of patience and simplicity. Clean water, clean water, clean water!!!!! I was instructed to many water changes and add salt 1 tspn per 10 gallons.
So far its working.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/E6769C8B-E956-4017-9096-9F915E9B0B74.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/E6769C8B-E956-4017-9096-9F915E9B0B74.jpg.html)

Day 1. Lights were only on for picture. Fins where extremely damaged in shipping and the upside down discus has a large ammonia burn on its side (not pictured)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/748DADDF-D04F-49E7-A734-22C585723F52.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/748DADDF-D04F-49E7-A734-22C585723F52.jpg.html)

Day 2 after 3 large water changes... slight swimming and no longer laying on their side or tail standing

Well here it is almost a week later and to my surprise they are still alive. I've never seen discus arrive like this ever!!! I'm still not in the clear yet but continuing the water changes and salt. (%50 daily with 80 R/O and 20 tap mix)

Both are still extremely stressed and I've tried feeding but I don't think they are eating. For the most part they are stationary and hate any light. Over the course of the last few days the tank has been converted to BB and Ram's have been removed (picking frayed fins) The one with the ammonia burn looks kinda bad still. Large open sore thats red and white. All advice is appreciated but I will be listening to Mark first and foremost.

I only have one question to the majority... do i need a feeding cone? I want these guys to eat but not rushing anything.


Once again Mark...THANK YOU!!! You are truly a person that cares for what he sells. You treated these two discus like they were still in your facility. thanks for the quick responses and patience in dealing with me. You are truly a great businessman

[Discus Origins]

Paul,

First, I want to thank you for your business and second I want to apologize to you again on the condition of the fish upon delivery. It is truly upsetting for me (and all suppliers) when we put in great care to package the fish as best as we can only to have our shippers (UPS, Fedex, USPS) decide to kick the box down the road not caring about the well being of the fish. You have been a great listener and I have no doubt the fish will come back to look as nice as they were in my tanks.

The shape of the discus were truly bad in that first photo you sent me. With so much water loss (the fish were double bagged in 4mm bags with a 4mm liner in between) the fish can actually become dehydrated through prolonged exposure to air. Once they settle in their bodies and fins will heal and the shapes will become more round visually when the fish are happy with their dorsal and anal fins extended.

As to eating, try to tempt them with some frozen bloodworms or blackworms. That's what we had them on here at the warehouse.

Keep up with the water changes and salt, wild discus are very resilient. They will come back beautifully with proper care and maintenance.

[Phillydubs]

Wow that really is a shame!! Sucks that people have no regard for packages, let alone livestock and they should be ashamed of themselves...

I have to be grateful that I and my company have a great relationship with our shippers and they always take good care... My guy is awesome, he will take the box to the front with him and put it in the side seat with a seatbelt on! So that goes to show they aren't all bad and careless, but this is an awful case and not fair or even funny... We pay good money to have these fish shipped from all over the world and to have a careless driver who doesn't take pride in his job cause harm or possible death to a gorgeous fish is just cruel...

[jmf3460]

Paul, goodness you have been through the ringer with your wilds. Even though they looked pretty bad in the first picture, like Mark said they look dehydrated. I can see beyond these pictures and I know that they are going to be absolute beauties once you nurse them back to health. I have green tefes as well. One question, why just 2? Do you have friends for them or are you hoping they become a pair?

[woopaul5]

I called UPS several times afterwards trying to get an explanation on how they could be so careless. I had a live shipment the next day for another aquarium of mine and the guy that was originally scheduled for delivery was bewildered when his truck was missing the shipment. Luckily it was found a few hours later with no casualties. As you can tell I was not happy of two days in a row of overnight shipping... normally I'm not one to complain but I called corporate offices. They had what I assume was the public relations lady call me... the excuse I got was poor. She admitted to the problem they have and said that this is normal operations for UPS. She stated that they do not cover perishables and that I should blame who I ordered from. What a crock of crap!!! She then mentioned that I wouldn't know what rush they are to get the packages out...that they are human... I'm pretty sure my 14 years as a Aircraft Maintenance technician that I would know what time constraints are... but enough about that.

Mark the fish are looking slightly better every day. The pic below will show the ammonia burn slightly better. About the feeding...I've been trying to give them frozen bloodworms... pretty much been a no go. They look interested but extremely skittish and usually just move to a corner. Should i get a cone feeder?

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/6B6B1C83-78F2-4D1E-9574-73D9FE32AA55.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/6B6B1C83-78F2-4D1E-9574-73D9FE32AA55.jpg.html)

Sorry about the flash and glare...trying to keep the room dim lit.

Jacklyn... I'm new to wilds and I only have two cause its a 40 breeder. Didn't want to overstock. I'd love to get more but the way these two are right now... not sure if a few more in here will be a good thing. If you think a few more will get these eating or less stressed I'm game. I don't mind putting in the work for happy Discus!!!

Thanks to everyone that are wishing the fish well!!!

[khooyang]

Wow...wat a journey for your wilds. Their shape look amazing. Great quality discus....but 2 would be too little i think. 5 or 6 would be great. U plan to mix with domestic?

[Second Hand Pat]

Paul, having two is doable but patient is the key. If you have a little clean PFS laying add a couple of handfuls to the bottom to give the fish a little extra comfort.
Pat

[jmf3460]

agree with Pat on a little sand on the bottom. Also if you had a larger group they would feel more comfortable and safe to eat. There is safety in numbers your know. Maybe throw a big piece of wood in there for them to feel like they have cover if they need it.

[woopaul5]

I'll have to pick up a bag of sand tomorrow.

I ended up just ordering another two tefe's from Mark. Trying not to overcrowd the breeder.

Looks like their MT is going to have to be purchased sooner than later...

Thanks again for the advice and well wishes!

[rickztahone]

Man, that is too bad. It would be great if UPS and FedEx had this as their policy:
"You pay us in full for the package to be delivered. Every mishandling of the package will result in a partial reimbursment depending on the damage". In the OP's case, I would say a full refund would be in order if they adopted these principals. I bet corporate would have a little more to say to their workers if they kept losing money on mishandled packages.

OP, keep at it, and I am sure they will pull through for you. I hear wilds are super resiliant.

[Rudustin]

Words are not enough to hear and see what you have been going through with these lovely discus. You need to be persistent in your complaint. Letters, email, texts whatever and keep complaining. I know it take time but you need to do it. Wishing you the best with their recovery. With good care like you are giving them I'm sure they will recover. Rufus

[woopaul5]

Words are not enough to hear and see what you have been going through with these lovely discus. You need to be persistent in your complaint. Letters, email, texts whatever and keep complaining. I know it take time but you need to do it. Wishing you the best with their recovery. With good care like you are giving them I'm sure they will recover. Rufus

Thank you!!!

Persistence will be key

[woopaul5]

Finally a update with good news!!!

I ended up getting another 2 Tefe's from Mark (Discus Origins), FedEx was used for shipping this time around. Package arrived in great shape. My parents were visiting in town (babysitting the dog) So I didn't have to take off anymore work. From what the parents said the fish were extremely well packed. One discus was in immaculate condition...other thrashed itself during shipping. It's been a few days and fish are schooling and developing a pecking order when eating. Took awhile but they are all finally eating!!! Todays been the first day that they actually kind of begged for food. Starting to follow me around the room and actually staring me down right now. I'm actually gonna take a break this evening from them (WC wise)...don't want to ruin this trust they've formed with me. Plus I'm beat... Barrels of RO is in the laundry room (furthest point from office) and 20 gallon daily WC via bucket is taking its toll on the spine. Water parameters are golden!!! Even with adding salt to the aquarium the TDS only jumps to 170's. Still using a 80 RO 20 tap mix with a splash of Kent's discus essentials.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/A7F58A75-732C-4737-992B-40006BA61DEA.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/A7F58A75-732C-4737-992B-40006BA61DEA.jpg.html)

As you can see the fish in the foreground to the right is healing quite nicely. Scab is almost 100% healed. Fish in background right is the new one that needs to heal (all fins damaged and scabbed up a bit)

Tomorrow back to regular scheduled maintenance and more... (50% WC on wilds, wall scrub on CRS, 100% WC and substrate change and cleanse of domestic tank...eco complete!!!) If anyone in the Tucson area is selling a 150+ gallon with stand please
PM me

[Discus Origins]

Great news on the second shipment, looks like they were definitely better taken care of!

Here is a hint on water changes - go to Lowes/Home Depot and get either a 35g or 50g Brute plastic trash barrel, 8 ft of 1/2" inside diameter clear plastic tubing, and a wooden dolley (they cost like $10). Go to your LFS and get a water pump that will at least do 600gph. It will make your life easier if you fill the barrel with the premixed water, roll it out to the tank, and then pump it into the sump/tank in 5min as you watch. No more buckets back and forth :)

[Phillydubs]

I agree with mark 100% and it has been a life saver for me to use this method! Water changes are so easy and not a drag or a bother, I do them so frequently now it is just part of the day... Don't know how I used to do 5 gallon jugs...

[rickztahone]

I agree with mark 100% and it has been a life saver for me to use this method! Water changes are so easy and not a drag or a bother, I do them so frequently now it is just part of the day... Don't know how I used to do 5 gallon jugs...

yup, sooner or later you will go this route and you will kick yourself for not having done it earlier.

[woopaul5]

Thanks to all that was hoping these guys will pull through. 3 out of 4 are back to normal. I have one that has some healing to do but otherwise doing amazing. All 4 beg for food and I'm almost to the point where I can hand feed them. Pecking order has been established. The fish that was upside down barley breathing in an inch of water is the alpha. Figured if you come back from that you'd be the strongest.

Mark (discus origins)... I cannot thank you enough for your assistance through this.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/198AA075-D070-4778-ACF1-56164675F74B.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/198AA075-D070-4778-ACF1-56164675F74B.jpg.html)

I need to start acclimating them to light... (Light was on for photo purpose only)

[Discus Origins]

Thanks to all that was hoping these guys will pull through. 3 out of 4 are back to normal. I have one that has some healing to do but otherwise doing amazing. All 4 beg for food and I'm almost to the point where I can hand feed them. Pecking order has been established. The fish that was upside down barley breathing in an inch of water is the alpha. Figured if you come back from that you'd be the strongest.

Mark (discus origins)... I cannot thank you enough for your assistance through this.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/198AA075-D070-4778-ACF1-56164675F74B.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/198AA075-D070-4778-ACF1-56164675F74B.jpg.html)

I need to start acclimating them to light... (Light was on for photo purpose only)

Paul, you're most welcome and you are doing a great job with them with what the fish went through during shipping.

I can see the side on that one is healing nicely. The one in the back corner still has some fin rot issues from being exposed to air. Please continue to keep salt in the water to facilitate the healing. When you finally get these guys into a show tank they are going to shine :)

They are probably shy with light because of the tank being BB. I had bright T5s over their tanks at my warehouse. You can also do this...get a piece of cardboard or aluminum foil. Cut it to fit under your light strip and put it in between the strip and glass top. Cut 1/2" holes every 2" down the light strip. This will allow some light to penetrate but not all bright and stuff. As the fish gets used to re lift cut more and more holes to make it brighter.

[woopaul5]

Fish have been doing excellent. I'm taking things real slow... Added sand about a week ago and slowly going to adjust them to led light. On the low setting right now. A little skittish but eating.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/923E0E4F-44C2-40C1-A3B5-5EAC10E59FEC.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/923E0E4F-44C2-40C1-A3B5-5EAC10E59FEC.jpg.html)

[woopaul5]

Added some driftwood for tannis and to replicate a more natural environment. After a few months in the QT tank they are definitely ready to move into a show tank. Sorry for the sub par pics all I have is a iPhone and not really the best photographer.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/FD446B69-B26B-4649-8BF9-688680006693.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/FD446B69-B26B-4649-8BF9-688680006693.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/D3CC8FC3-C8ED-4DE4-88A9-3F7181D6FD89.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/D3CC8FC3-C8ED-4DE4-88A9-3F7181D6FD89.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/B3032877-F28A-4BE8-B408-8D50BDEE37A5.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/B3032877-F28A-4BE8-B408-8D50BDEE37A5.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/0DE535E8-7F47-4B17-90E4-4898F97A08D1.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/0DE535E8-7F47-4B17-90E4-4898F97A08D1.jpg.html)

I am truly amazed on how all of these guys bounced back. The photo below shows how well wilds can bounce back. This one was the one that was upside down in a inch of water and had ammonia burns all over and lost it half of it's fins.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/A02DEB59-A109-4D66-B368-6E9BACD6B87E.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/A02DEB59-A109-4D66-B368-6E9BACD6B87E.jpg.html)

Thank you SD members and Mark Chen!!! Would not of been able to do this with out you. Again sorry for the glare and iphone pics

[Discus Origins]

Looking good Paul!

[jmf3460]

looking good Paul, did you test those two huge stones in your tank for mineral leakage?? fish look great, would look even better against a solid black background.

[woopaul5]

looking good Paul, did you test those two huge stones in your tank for mineral leakage?? fish look great, would look even better against a solid black background.



Thank you all!!!!


Stones are fine... I tested them when I started my domestic tank last Feb. They've been sitting since. This is just a temporary home till I come across a 150G or larger. Anyone in the Tucson area looking to get rid of one please inbox me!!!

[jawfish]

These guys are looking better and better Paul, great work.

Looking forward on seing more of them.

Fred

[Jack L]

I called UPS several times afterwards trying to get an explanation on how they could be so careless. I had a live shipment the next day for another aquarium of mine and the guy that was originally scheduled for delivery was bewildered when his truck was missing the shipment. Luckily it was found a few hours later with no casualties. As you can tell I was not happy of two days in a row of overnight shipping... normally I'm not one to complain but I called corporate offices. They had what I assume was the public relations lady call me... the excuse I got was poor. She admitted to the problem they have and said that this is normal operations for UPS. She stated that they do not cover perishables and that I should blame who I ordered from. What a crock of crap!!! She then mentioned that I wouldn't know what rush they are to get the packages out...that they are human... I'm pretty sure my 14 years as a Aircraft Maintenance technician that I would know what time constraints are... but enough about that.

Mark the fish are looking slightly better every day. The pic below will show the ammonia burn slightly better. About the feeding...I've been trying to give them frozen bloodworms... pretty much been a no go. They look interested but extremely skittish and usually just move to a corner. Should i get a cone feeder?

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/6B6B1C83-78F2-4D1E-9574-73D9FE32AA55.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/6B6B1C83-78F2-4D1E-9574-73D9FE32AA55.jpg.html)

Sorry about the flash and glare...trying to keep the room dim lit.

Jacklyn... I'm new to wilds and I only have two cause its a 40 breeder. Didn't want to overstock. I'd love to get more but the way these two are right now... not sure if a few more in here will be a good thing. If you think a few more will get these eating or less stressed I'm game. I don't mind putting in the work for happy Discus!!!

Thanks to everyone that are wishing the fish well!!!

how did it get the road rash?

[woopaul5]

Most likely ammonia burns from the mishandling of the package. That fish with the burns arrived upside down in a inch of water. Only reason I didn't give up on the fish because it was still breathing... Barely. It's been restored to full health and the feisty one out of the four

[woopaul5]

Still doing great!!! They eat from my hand now! About to move these guys into something bigger here very soon.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/DSCN0829_1.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/DSCN0829_1.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/DSCN0830_1.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/DSCN0830_1.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/DSCN0833_1.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/DSCN0833_1.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/DSCN0836_1.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/DSCN0836_1.jpg.html)

Sorry about the flash and glare

[jmf3460]

these fish are looking very very good Paul. You say they are tefe greens right? They look more like cameta yellows to me. they are beautiful whatever they are. you are doing a great job growing them out they look nice and thick.

[plecocicho]

Nah, they are wild greens, the red dots on the bluegreen anal fin are a sure sign.

[jawfish]

Hey Woopaul5, these guys are coloring very nice. keep those pics coming. !!!

Cheers,

Fred

[woopaul5]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/80F1BCF4-3F60-4D41-91A1-C50870AC45D7.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/80F1BCF4-3F60-4D41-91A1-C50870AC45D7.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/B56BDACE-D5A4-43B7-8C19-3A13985E8346.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/B56BDACE-D5A4-43B7-8C19-3A13985E8346.jpg.html)

Still doing great!!! These guys are about to move to a new home though...

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/CF8EB064-DDB3-4F32-9728-A288E412E14B.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/CF8EB064-DDB3-4F32-9728-A288E412E14B.jpg.html)

Was holding out for a 180G (72X24X24) but nothing was really coming up on Craigslist. Settled for this 125G. Came with stand and hood for $350. Hoping to get these guys going in this the next month or so. I'll try to get a few more pics tomorrow. Currently sanding and restaining stand and hood.

[Lilly]

Wow...just found your thread....great job bringing them back....they were really worth the effort!:D

[jawfish]

Looking good. Great work bringing them to this stage: After the shipping incident.
That 130 is going to be cool. You need the length to really enjoy them.

Keep those pics coming this is a great tread.

Fred

[woopaul5]

Thanks!!! Really proud to bring them back from death. The power of water changes!!!

[robxc80]

Are you keeping them in tap. If so, what are your water params?

[woopaul5]

80 RO 20 tap. PH 7, tds 70-90. 50% Water changes every 3-5 days and daily vacuum to clean unbeaten food and waste

[robxc80]

80 RO 20 tap. PH 7, tds 70-90. Water changes every 3-5 days


Thank you.

[woopaul5]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/0904B8D3-2DF6-4365-B1BA-9A8F3B9D633E.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/0904B8D3-2DF6-4365-B1BA-9A8F3B9D633E.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/02C1A8C0-1B10-44A7-9365-6CEE1C52B95E.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/02C1A8C0-1B10-44A7-9365-6CEE1C52B95E.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/3050A5FF-919A-4F5F-B7D3-8CF753B5840C.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/3050A5FF-919A-4F5F-B7D3-8CF753B5840C.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/E997DF53-34A7-4C49-9CD9-7B8756130CFF.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/E997DF53-34A7-4C49-9CD9-7B8756130CFF.jpg.html)

Almost ready for their new home

[jmf3460]

wow I love that dark stain on the hood and stand. great job. water needs tannins!! naw just kidding it looks ready for fish, those pieces of wood look good in there. are they permanent already? if not I would suggest making one come from the back corner up, so you have a more mirrored effect.

[woopaul5]

There's a little tannis in there, I used a small bag. I'll prob double it up here soon but I really hate taking apart canister filters.

The stain actually looks terrible in person . The wood was old and it was cold while staining, then the addition of me sucking at staining.

[Discus Origins]

Looking great Paul!

[Jack L]

well it looks good in photo though....

what r u using for filtration?

[woopaul5]

Thanks Mark and Jack!

Fluval FX 6 and a sponge filter

[woopaul5]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/12861BDC-4FF7-450B-B5CA-D8150D40F29F.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/12861BDC-4FF7-450B-B5CA-D8150D40F29F.jpg.html)

Center piece came in today. Still thinking one small piece in the rt corner...

Moved some stuff around

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/6F80301F-DD4A-4DC7-9E77-768584B613C7.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/6F80301F-DD4A-4DC7-9E77-768584B613C7.jpg.html)

[rickztahone]

I know you aren't asking me for scaping tips, but here is my opinion (none-the-less?); As it stands, the two branches from either side are too similar. Being that they are so similar, the symmetry effect does not lend itself very well to a scape. You want to use 1/3 ratio's, very much like in photography. This of course isn't a rule because at the end of the day, you can place everything however you want it to look, but the thing I am suggesting is to move one of the pieces towards the other. Have them both coming from far right in to the scape, or inverse that coming from the left. The center piece can go on the other side of the branching in pieces. This would give the scape an overall better balance. Additionally, I'd probably add a one more piece of DW somewhere to add some length along the bottom, as it stands, you have a lot of empty sand space, which isn't necessarily bad in a discus tank, but just something to think about as well.

[woopaul5]

Thanks Ricardo for the feedback!!! Unfortunately there's a huge brace in the center that would prevent me with the pieces I have but I got an idea... Need more branches though.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/AA7C28DC-B969-40A3-9517-DF06243781C5.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/AA7C28DC-B969-40A3-9517-DF06243781C5.jpg.html)

Add a piece in the center then the left

[rickztahone]

If you notice, with this new arrangement, there are more branchy pieces on the right. What I meant was to keep that same angle of the branches, coming from top right, down to the center, not from the center itself.

Kind of like this:
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b284/rickztahone/Planted%20tanks/P1230413.jpg

That is a 55g I used to have.

[woopaul5]

Tracking now. I'll have to wait till the large piece is water logged and I'll mess with it some more. Thanks for the advice!!!

[Jack L]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/12861BDC-4FF7-450B-B5CA-D8150D40F29F.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/12861BDC-4FF7-450B-B5CA-D8150D40F29F.jpg.html)

Center piece came in today. Still thinking one small piece in the rt corner...

Moved some stuff around

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/6F80301F-DD4A-4DC7-9E77-768584B613C7.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/6F80301F-DD4A-4DC7-9E77-768584B613C7.jpg.html)

i like the come down from angle, you could also try putting them together to have a cover and an open area.

[woopaul5]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/3111D79C-1742-41D3-8E92-11C858AA325D.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/3111D79C-1742-41D3-8E92-11C858AA325D.jpg.html)

Liking how this is looking so far... Not sure if the other piece will tie into this.

[woopaul5]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/3F44F5FB-705C-4CBD-925E-28FAD93257C8.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/3F44F5FB-705C-4CBD-925E-28FAD93257C8.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/618D481D-270C-47AE-B513-A13753C8E0C9.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/618D481D-270C-47AE-B513-A13753C8E0C9.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/A65EBCC8-43BC-4293-A99C-4B9E6B104904.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/A65EBCC8-43BC-4293-A99C-4B9E6B104904.jpg.html)

Cali checking on the discus.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/F007E63B-0C75-405A-A426-016DBBEF803A.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/F007E63B-0C75-405A-A426-016DBBEF803A.jpg.html)

I have a few more pieces being shipped. I kind like the straight up and down look to make it like a root system. Unfortunately the expensive stump I got will not go in.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/E99E6E7B-39C6-46B4-8C4C-F5B67DA821D7.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/E99E6E7B-39C6-46B4-8C4C-F5B67DA821D7.jpg.html)

Dropped them in last night. Going to be a few weeks before they trust me again but I'm sure they will appreciate the space. They will have and additional 4 friends in the future. Ordered 4 tapajos blues that will be going into QT on weds

[Phillydubs]

Looks really great! I was going to ask if you had planned to add more! Good luck with them! I can't wait to see updates, I will be following!

[woopaul5]

Thanks!!!

I'm looking at 12 total in the 125. I would get more than 4 at a time but the QT tank is a 40 breeder. I never thought I'd follow the 1 fish per 10 gallon rule but I have so far.

[robxc80]

Looking good. What's good about wood is you can keep changing arrangements and stack them differently. I always aim to make many pieces of wood resemble one large continously piece. Let your imagination run wild with your scape. It will always improve over time. I've found that getting into the Amano articles will help you with your scaping skills.

[Jack L]

crazy how they can hide in plain sight like that.

[jmf3460]

they look good Paul. let us know how they look today. I bet they are swimming around like crazy.

[woopaul5]

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/908/HwkeI9.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/p8HwkeI9j)

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/910/9N2jA4.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pa9N2jA4j)

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/905/PJbF1T.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/p5PJbF1Tj)


They settled in quite nicely and was eating by the next morning and actually swimming around. These fish have been pretty skittish since I've had them but looks like they are coming around. Really enjoying the space and opening up to me.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/911/9xJQmI.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pb9xJQmIj)

The wild blues came in this morning and settling in really well. Actually went to exploring right of the bat and now they are sitting next to me begging for food.

[jmf3460]

THESE PICS DONT WORK FOR ME ahh im so excited to see but all I see are the tiny black x

[rickztahone]

I'm able to see them. Nice looking discus.

[woopaul5]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/4528188B-B140-40EA-8ED8-4CC31D27CBE3.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/4528188B-B140-40EA-8ED8-4CC31D27CBE3.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/BACF5DD7-5E25-489C-A4E3-9618B7661D54.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/BACF5DD7-5E25-489C-A4E3-9618B7661D54.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/F72765AA-2C8C-461A-A714-E264C593605E.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/F72765AA-2C8C-461A-A714-E264C593605E.jpg.html)

Extreme amount of aggression right now but hopefully it smooths out soon. Other than that this is the most comfortable they have been with me to date.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/6A63E23A-875B-42C7-84AF-61F2F298014E.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/6A63E23A-875B-42C7-84AF-61F2F298014E.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/320A12C5-7BC8-41C0-926E-76E706F9F318.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/320A12C5-7BC8-41C0-926E-76E706F9F318.jpg.html)

The Tapjos blues are settling in really well. Appetite isn't quite where is like it to be but they are eating. Got one little guy that I hope puts on some size before going to the 125 end of next month.

Thanks for all that have followed this thread. It's been one heck of a journey with these wilds of mine but worth every minute. Sorry for those that had issues viewing the last set of photos. I had to use my Image Shack acct because photobucket was corrupted for some reason

[jmf3460]

paul they look to be acclimating well and really enjoying their new digs. these fish will grow up beautifully because I can tell how much you care for them and put the time in to make them perfect. I love the wood arrangement.

[woopaul5]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/Wild%20Discus/9E133F3F-984F-425F-8812-6F7CA4580DAF_1.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/Wild%20Discus/9E133F3F-984F-425F-8812-6F7CA4580DAF_1.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/Wild%20Discus/D7D9A246-216A-46AD-92E6-59CE67FB3740.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/Wild%20Discus/D7D9A246-216A-46AD-92E6-59CE67FB3740.jpg.html)

A little more tweaking to do but I'm fairly satisfied with this look.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/Wild%20Discus/6333CA09-C9EB-4CA5-9B75-38CB6EB755D3.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/Wild%20Discus/6333CA09-C9EB-4CA5-9B75-38CB6EB755D3.jpg.html)

Had some extra so I took out the old stuff and added it to the QT tank. These guys are loving it. Extremely active and growing quick also


Merry Christmas everyone!!!

[Jack L]

Coming along nicely
What type of wood? manzanita?

[woopaul5]

Thank you, yes it is manzanita. Removed a few pieces, looked too busy in there.

[jawfish]

Tanks is looking good, well done.

p.s. love the Hercules above it ;-)
Fred

[woopaul5]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/Wild%20Discus/1272E42F-6BA9-4988-8325-997AE7DCDACD.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/Wild%20Discus/1272E42F-6BA9-4988-8325-997AE7DCDACD.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/Wild%20Discus/5158C9F9-CE84-4306-B327-B290AE995FBD.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/Wild%20Discus/5158C9F9-CE84-4306-B327-B290AE995FBD.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/Wild%20Discus/BFE188F0-7227-47F6-A812-02DB06839925.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/Wild%20Discus/BFE188F0-7227-47F6-A812-02DB06839925.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/Wild%20Discus/D7FF1091-BC94-4A0A-B77B-F7FEC38C96DC.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/Wild%20Discus/D7FF1091-BC94-4A0A-B77B-F7FEC38C96DC.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/Wild%20Discus/CD33324B-5ABD-4F3E-8441-5D337726F2D5.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/Wild%20Discus/CD33324B-5ABD-4F3E-8441-5D337726F2D5.jpg.html)

Added the blues to the MT recently. A little early from the QT process but they were doing well. Trying to liven up the tefe greens. One day they're eating from my hand and the next they fear me. With the blues there's a little competition for food and the pecking order is spread out evenly. It got so bad about a week ago I thought the tefes were going to kill the one that was the lowest in the totem pole. Had it pinned in a corner and the 3 kept smashing it into the ground. Other than that they all eat well and a lot more active with me.

Added in some rooibos tea... Well actually a little too much. It's been removed for now and I've been doing daily cleanings with a 30-40% water change ever 3 days.

Thanks Fred!!! Been a Herc mechanic for 14 yrs. Mostly all legacy models... Early E models 1962-72 when I was stationed at pope and I've been working on compass call since 08'

[rickztahone]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/4528188B-B140-40EA-8ED8-4CC31D27CBE3.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/4528188B-B140-40EA-8ED8-4CC31D27CBE3.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/BACF5DD7-5E25-489C-A4E3-9618B7661D54.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/BACF5DD7-5E25-489C-A4E3-9618B7661D54.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/F72765AA-2C8C-461A-A714-E264C593605E.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/F72765AA-2C8C-461A-A714-E264C593605E.jpg.html)

Extreme amount of aggression right now but hopefully it smooths out soon. Other than that this is the most comfortable they have been with me to date.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/6A63E23A-875B-42C7-84AF-61F2F298014E.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/6A63E23A-875B-42C7-84AF-61F2F298014E.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/320A12C5-7BC8-41C0-926E-76E706F9F318.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/320A12C5-7BC8-41C0-926E-76E706F9F318.jpg.html)

The Tapjos blues are settling in really well. Appetite isn't quite where is like it to be but they are eating. Got one little guy that I hope puts on some size before going to the 125 end of next month.

Thanks for all that have followed this thread. It's been one heck of a journey with these wilds of mine but worth every minute. Sorry for those that had issues viewing the last set of photos. I had to use my Image Shack acct because photobucket was corrupted for some reason

I had the same issue with Photobucket a while back.

[jmf3460]

Paul, your dog makes me laugh. A tiny couch pillow is its whole bed, how cute. The fish are looking great, I really like the leaf litter on the floor of the tank, is that magnolia? You can never overdose rooibos and in fact your fish probably loved it. your fish seem to stay at the bottom quarter of the tank still. have you tried the loose fdbw from Al, and put it in the current, that's what I do because it sends the worms to the lower quadrant of the tank where my wilds liked to eat originally. One other thing that could help give them some confidence is a large school of dither fish. after a quarantine period a group of cardinals, rummy noses or whatever you prefer could really help them to realize there is nothing to be scared of. looking great I really love the wood arrangement.

[woopaul5]

Thanks Jacklyn. The leaf litter is cattapa leaves and trust me you can OD rooibis... I had the tank almost blacked out. Lol, I just removed it so it wasn't so dark but yes the fish seemed to really enjoy it. On the dither fish I'll have to wait, I may be moving to the east coast in 6 mos and not looking to adding anymore. Well with the exception of the 4 nhamunda reds I have showing up from Marks newest shipment. Regardless of where I move I'll be taking these guys with me, hopefully with no casualties. I have 3 spixi snails in there to clean the fungus off of the wood but no other tank mates. The dog is a total hoot!!! Her name is Cali and She loves staring these fish down. She also loves water change day.

http://youtu.be/ojaEKkCNT7Q

Sorry I have no clue on how to embed videos

[woopaul5]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/Wild%20Discus/2BA89E49-094A-485D-80F7-2E73C8FAC930.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/Wild%20Discus/2BA89E49-094A-485D-80F7-2E73C8FAC930.jpg.html)

Unfortunately I had to cull one of the wilds tonight. A few days ago it started whirling after a water change. It's the one in the center in the pic above. It was the largest one out of the 8. Pretty much came out of nowhere. Tried darkening the tank and it actually helped. Till today.... It started spinning out of control and with its every last breath would spin. I was about to leave to petco to get a new QT since my 40G is already prepped for some new arrivals next thurs. The fish showed little hope and beat itself up pretty good so I decided to end its pain. I feel really heartbroken. Never been attached to any fish but really love these wild discus. Just hoping it doesn't spread to the rest.

To those that dealt with this before is there any early signs? I acquired a bunch of metro that was prescribed to my mom that she no longer takes. Would it be wise to use this if needed?

[woopaul5]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/Wild%20Discus/13E8AEC1-D161-49A2-B15F-CB09981F3A0B_1.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/Wild%20Discus/13E8AEC1-D161-49A2-B15F-CB09981F3A0B_1.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/Wild%20Discus/2056566B-BC10-4FA0-8C01-27C9F67DC15D.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/Wild%20Discus/2056566B-BC10-4FA0-8C01-27C9F67DC15D.jpg.html)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/Wild%20Discus/8231CA74-5D49-400D-90E5-8A7206893864.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/Wild%20Discus/8231CA74-5D49-400D-90E5-8A7206893864.jpg.html)

Messing with moonlight

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/Wild%20Discus/0574919B-BC26-424E-94EF-4E37329C8981_2.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/Wild%20Discus/0574919B-BC26-424E-94EF-4E37329C8981_2.jpg.html)

Fish are doing great!!!

[jawfish]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/Wild%20Discus/2BA89E49-094A-485D-80F7-2E73C8FAC930.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/Wild%20Discus/2BA89E49-094A-485D-80F7-2E73C8FAC930.jpg.html)

Unfortunately I had to cull one of the wilds tonight. A few days ago it started whirling after a water change. It's the one in the center in the pic above. It was the largest one out of the 8. Pretty much came out of nowhere. Tried darkening the tank and it actually helped. Till today.... It started spinning out of control and with its every last breath would spin. I was about to leave to petco to get a new QT since my 40G is already prepped for some new arrivals next thurs. The fish showed little hope and beat itself up pretty good so I decided to end its pain. I feel really heartbroken. Never been attached to any fish but really love these wild discus. Just hoping it doesn't spread to the rest.

To those that dealt with this before is there any early signs? I acquired a bunch of metro that was prescribed to my mom that she no longer takes. Would it be wise to use this if needed?

Yhea I've dealt with it twice I and haven't seen any signs. I.m crossing my fingers since I haven't seen any thing in the last 16 months here, but now I'm always on the lookout.

We had 2 of my local club member here have an outbreak at the beginning of the month and both came out ok.
They followed the high dose of metro and salt recommended by Soh in the tread here. One thing seems to be important to win against this issue is closing the lights for at least the first 4 days of treatment. Also the Metro is photo sensitive so it more effective in darkness.

Yes they are looking good. love the tank shot !!!

Cheers,
Fred

[woopaul5]

Thanks Fred! Right now I got 4 in my QT so if I was to have another outbreak of have to get a 20l and use a sponge filter that's cycled. Thanks for the advice

[woopaul5]

It's amazing to see how far these guys came along. Thanks to support from the forum I did not give up and put in the work to bring these guys back to life.

Week 1

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/6B6B1C83-78F2-4D1E-9574-73D9FE32AA55.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/6B6B1C83-78F2-4D1E-9574-73D9FE32AA55.jpg.html)

The one with the burn on its side turned into this... Really happy with it's color.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/woopaul5/Wild%20Discus/37377A1C-042B-4496-985A-8698AEA6E334.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/woopaul5/media/Wild%20Discus/37377A1C-042B-4496-985A-8698AEA6E334.jpg.html)

I will be starting a new thread that is more tank specific in the future. Thanks again for the support!!!

[marinum]

Great job