New Discus Tank; community fish advice

[Flux]

Hello my name is Chris, I have recently moved into a house which now allows me to once again set up my tank. I have had several tanks, I started with South American's, then moved to Salt Water with Coral (Tank died when I lost power for 4 days over a Christmas Break), and then I had African's (primarily Peacocks). I then moved to Chicago and did not have room for my tank so I sold my African's back to a buddy and allowed my friend to use my tank for the past 4 years. Now I have it back and I am looking at doing a Discus tank!

As stated before I have a 55 Gallon tank with substrate (gravel/sand mix), non planted with driftwood, fake plants, and old coral rock. I have a Fluval 306 Canister filter, Dual T5HO, and a 200W heater. The tank was original set up with tap water and is being conditioned to the levels required for Discus. I have begun slowly mixing in RO water since I have some fish in there now.

As of now I have 13 Cardinal's, 5 German Rams, 2 zebra corys, and a long tail bristle nose pleco. There is quite a bit of hiding with the rocks and the driftwood in place as of now. Once I feel comfortable with everything and it is running how I would like it (30) days or so, I plan to add 4-5 Juvenile Discus (type TBD). The last item I would like to add would be 2-3 Small Denison Barbs, I know Denisons get big and can be somewhat challenging with Discus but at some point I will likely upgrade to a larger tank since I have finally purchased a home and will not be moving.

My concern is that I may be overstocking, my only frame of reference is from the research I have done. I had larger and more fish (the Cardinals are so small!) in this tank before prior to this but it was not the ever demanding Discus. I prefer to only have to do 2x water changes a week but that will depend on my levels in the tank. To sum everything up my concerns are overstocking and the amount of Discus, I have read that the minimum number of Discus kept should really be (5). Any thoughts or advice would be a huge help. Thanks!!

[Mgus]

You should go with 5 discus for aggression. I'd skip the barbs with what you have now plus 5 discus you will be heavily stocked. If you are only gonna do two wc a week go with 4"+ fish and do as large a wc as you can 50-75% would be good. You can get really nice 4" fish on here from any of the sponsors at very reasonable prices. Spend some time going brought all of the sponsors they all have beautiful high quality fish and they all have some different strains. You don't need ro for raising discus only for breeding. You might want to remove the coral sand from your tank I have read that it can mess with your ph no personal experience but have heard bad things about it. Check out the beginner section and the sponsors lots of good info on here. Good luck.

[Larry Bugg]

Welcome to Simply!! You are heading for disaster. Your tank is going to be overcrowded which will make growing out discus very difficult. On top of that the substrate will make growing discus very difficult and if that isn't enough with only 2 water changes a week you are going to end up with stunted and or diseased discus. Just the blunt truth. Juvie discus require extremely clean water. We normally do daily water changes on juvies.

I wouldn't go with 5 4" discus in your set up either. You will still be overstocked and the two changes a week will not be enough to properly get them to their potential.

[Flux]

Ok, so it sounds like Juvenile's are not really an option. If this really seems to be that over crowded what do you recommend? I do not like the look of BB tanks and I have read its not always the best for the fish either (lots of opinions on this). I don't plan to breed them or even attempt to. I also do not want to run with a discus only tank.

[Larry Bugg]

Let's dispel the myth first. Breeders around the world along with many many hobbyist run bb tanks. There is no down side for the fish. Now if you don't like them then I understand that perfectly. You don't have to like a bb tank and you don't have to run one for ever but if you want to grow out discus it is by far the best route to take. This has been proven time and again. Your best options are either get juvies and grow them out in a bb tank or go with young adult/adults. If you go the grow out route, depending on what size you buy them at you are only going to have to be in a bb tank for about 6 months and then you can move them to your decorated tank. Suffer through the 6 months of the bb tank you don't like and you will dramatically increase your odds of ending up with big healthy discus. Like most cichlids, discus need to be in groups of 5 or more and your 55 will only support 5 adult discus comfortably. I would absolutely not add any more fish and I would really consider cutting back to a pair of rams. This will leave you still heavily stocked so you will really have to stay on top of your water params.

[Flux]

Larry - Thanks for the advice, what I might do is wait until I decide to get a larger tank. I am getting my wife into fish and maybe starting off with some rams and other's would be better off so it would be easier for her to take care of as well. This way I can more adequately support the kind of tank I would want. Seems 55 Gallon is really the bare minimum for Discus anyway! This was my concern and that is why I wanted to ask. I just don't have the time with for daily water changes with how busy work keeps me along with the other responsibilities I have! I will surely return once I have made the move to something larger, aiming for a 125! Thanks again!

[Larry Bugg]

Well rams are one of my favorite fish also so have fun with them. Whatever you do needs to be something you can manage or it won't be any fun and what is the point if you lose the fun........................

[strawberryblonde]

Glad to hear that you're rethinking the idea of trying to raise discus in that tank. Good decision! =)

On a side note however, if you plan to keep cardinals and rams in the tank you'll need to remove the old coral rock and definitely should go to sand for substrate. The rock will leach into the water and raise the pH. Cardinals and rams are just as picky as discus about water quality and gravel will hide a ton of rotting crud in it.

For those twice a week water changes, make them as big as you possibly can. Try to keep nitrates below 5ppm for maximum health of the cards and rams. It's also good practice for your future discus tank.

Definitely keep the plastic plants and driftwood since rams are very aggressive once they mature. Having plenty of places to hide and break line of sight is a real lifesaver for them.

[Flux]

Thanks for the advice. The rock has been non active for over 6 years and was cleaned and dried out in the sun a long time ago. PH right now seems to very stable, and my Tap water is about 7.2 so its not terrible (I will continue to monitor and remove it it is unmanageable). I did watch some interviews with Hans last night and it seems I may have been thinking discus were more difficult to raise then they actually are at this point. I will likely never do Juveniles know that I understand the philosophy behind it. Really my only concern at this point is truly overstocking a smaller tank, although it does seem people do have success raising discus in a 55 gallon just or more stocked then mine (rather do it right). I was already looking on Craigslist last night for a larger tank haha.

[rickztahone]

in a 55g barebotoom tank you can easily raise out 10+ juvies. However, that would mean daily water changes and large percentage every time and feeding regularly. However, if this criteria isn't met, then you want a larger tank where you can understock it. A 75g is a perfect choice and regular suggestion around here for that.

So, go with your gut feeling and make the 55g a ram tank with dither fish and get a 75g+ later down the line. This greatly increases your odds of success.

[DISCUS STU]

Let's dispel the myth first. Breeders around the world along with many many hobbyist run bb tanks. There is no down side for the fish. Now if you don't like them then I understand that perfectly. You don't have to like a bb tank and you don't have to run one for ever but if you want to grow out discus it is by far the best route to take. This has been proven time and again. Your best options are either get juvies and grow them out in a bb tank or go with young adult/adults. If you go the grow out route, depending on what size you buy them at you are only going to have to be in a bb tank for about 6 months and then you can move them to your decorated tank. Suffer through the 6 months of the bb tank you don't like and you will dramatically increase your odds of ending up with big healthy discus. Like most cichlids, discus need to be in groups of 5 or more and your 55 will only support 5 adult discus comfortably. I would absolutely not add any more fish and I would really consider cutting back to a pair of rams. This will leave you still heavily stocked so you will really have to stay on top of your water params.

All true. Raising juveniles in a planted tank with gravel or even sand will probably lead to problems. Having tried it with a planted, Hudson River sand tank with six juvies I found that I had to treat them more than once for internal infections, usually with Kanamycin Sulfate.

Some did very badly and had to be euthanized while the remaining four out of six ended up partially stunted. Most likely this would have been avoided if I had raised them in a bb tank. I would also stay from the Denison Barbs as they have the potential to grow to 6" and might compete badly with the Discus.

[neontetra777]

If you ever are ready to start raising discus, make sure you get your stock from a good resource. I strongly advice against getting them from a LFS (even Oldtown Aquarium).