Pat's Altums - Take 2

[Second Hand Pat]

I have been considering raising another batch of altums this summer but was on the fence until I saw pictures of the small altums John (snookn21) is currently selling so now I have a group of small altums (dime sized) arriving tomorrow.

I am following the same practice I did with the group from last year. BB 40 breeder with mostly RO with a splash of tap (TDS of about 30) with IALs and rooibos tea staining the water. Daily 30% WC with tank wipedowns and one 50 during the week (as recommended by Paul (pcsb23). I am starting them out on BBS and live white worms and will introduce Al's FDBWs later in the week. Video tomorrow if they settle nicely.
Pat

[Phillydubs]

Best of luck pat!!!! Im sure they will be gorgeous as all your inhabitants are!!

[Second Hand Pat]

Best of luck pat!!!! Im sure they will be gorgeous as all your inhabitants are!!

I hope so Phil just need to get them thru the first month or so.
Pat

[Ryan]

You're a glutton for punishment. I won't lie -- I considered a batch this year, but I have enough to keep me busy right now. Here's hoping this batch grows out well for you.

[Ardan]

Good luck with them Pat!

Ardan

[Second Hand Pat]

You're a glutton for punishment. I won't lie -- I considered a batch this year, but I have enough to keep me busy right now. Here's hoping this batch grows out well for you.

I couldn't help it Ryan when I saw them here on Simply and John mentioned how nice they came in. Figured they would keep me busy until the wilds started breeding. :p
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Good luck with them Pat!

Ardan

Thanks Ardan :)
Pat

[jawfish]

Looking forward to your video Pat.

Whats the PH you are keeping them ?

[Second Hand Pat]

Just under 7.0 Fred. It's the best I can do with my water. My mix is mostly RO with just a little tap.
Pat

[jmf3460]

im sure they will grow out nicely for you pat. looking forward to the videos. I always think tiny angels are so cute when they have their big fat bellies from bbs and worms.

[jawfish]

Thanks Pat...I'm just curious...I'm Altum ignorant 😊

[Second Hand Pat]

im sure they will grow out nicely for you pat. looking forward to the videos. I always think tiny angels are so cute when they have their big fat bellies from bbs and worms.

Thanks Jacklyn :)


Thanks Pat...I'm just curious...I'm Altum ignorant ��

I am too Fred :)

Quick cell phone shot (no flash). They arrived in excellent shape.

88768

[NYC Discus]

Thanks Jacklyn :)



I am too Fred :)

Quick cell phone shot (no flash). They arrived in excellent shape.

88768

Looking good Pat i just just got a group off John as well got them about a week or so all are doing good eating almost anything i put in the tank. Good luck with yours
-Christian

[Second Hand Pat]

Looking good Pat i just just got a group off John as well got them about a week or so all are doing good eating almost anything i put in the tank. Good luck with yours
-Christian

Thanks Christian, best of luck with your group too. I lightly target feed some BBS and they seem to be taking it.
Pat

[Kirbs]

Good luck with these Pat! Looking forward to the video and future updates!

Is that bag I see in the tank on the right holding the tea?

[Second Hand Pat]

Good luck with these Pat! Looking forward to the video and future updates!

Is that bag I see in the tank on the right holding the tea?

Yup Kirby, a little media bag. I place it over the bubbles to help disperse the tea. Here's a really crappy video showing them exploring the tank.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBTO7QdhRt0

[Kirbs]

Looks good.

[rickztahone]

darn, can't see the video (at work). I will check them out later. So you got pups in the fish room again Pat.... just when you had the kids out of the house...lol.

[Second Hand Pat]

Looks good.

Thanks Kirby :)


darn, can't see the video (at work). I will check them out later. So you got pups in the fish room again Pat.... just when you had the kids out of the house...lol.

My daughter has been gone a while Ricardo and yes I do. They are cute little buggers. The first video was not great. This one is a little better.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2BXwxzZNZs

[Larry Bugg]

A friend of mine was out at the house last Friday picking up a tank and told me he had gotten some of them from John. He was very impressed with the ones he received. Maybe one of these days I will give them a try.

[Second Hand Pat]

A friend of mine was out at the house last Friday picking up a tank and told me he had gotten some of them from John. He was very impressed with the ones he received. Maybe one of these days I will give them a try.

These are very nice Larry and shipped very well. They are settling nicely too. I think you would really enjoy them Larry. :)
Pat

[jawfish]

Interesting little guys... Thanks for the videos Pat.

Maybe next year... I do like the height very much.

Cheers,

Fred

[Altum Nut]

They are cute buggers Pat and like Larry...will give it another go sometime.
I thought mine were small when I got a group 6 years back from Oliver at Below-water...these guys are tiny. I'm sure you will do wonders with them Pat as you did with the others.

...Ralph

[rickztahone]

My daughter has been gone a while Ricardo and yes I do. They are cute little buggers. The first video was not great. This one is a little better.



I know Pat, I didn't literally mean your kids. I meant, you no longer have very small discus/angles in the house to have to worry so much about, and then you go and get some tiny little buggers, lol. I know they are going to be great in your hands!

[Second Hand Pat]

Interesting little guys... Thanks for the videos Pat.

Maybe next year... I do like the height very much.

Cheers,

Fred

Trick is preserving the fin extensions Fred then they can get really tall.

[Second Hand Pat]

They are cute buggers Pat and like Larry...will give it another go sometime.
I thought mine were small when I got a group 6 years back from Oliver at Below-water...these guys are tiny. I'm sure you will do wonders with them Pat as you did with the others.

...Ralph

I hope Ralph. Need to get thru the next month. :)
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

I know Pat, I didn't literally mean your kids. I meant, you no longer have very small discus/angles in the house to have to worry so much about, and then you go and get some tiny little buggers, lol. I know they are going to be great in your hands!

I got these because the wilds aren't breeding so you know what will happen next :p
Pat

[nikond70s]

i want to get altums every year! i already have some 2 year old ones from john 2 years ago. really itching to get some this year. cant get enough of them. wish i had a 500 gallon fill with altums. but no room for more at the moment. but so damn tempting to get some just cuz i love altums so much.

[brady]

Pat
If you don't mind me asking, How many did you get and how much per fish are they?Really would like to try them providing I could afford them.
Thanks.
Jay

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Jay, the Altums are $15 a piece plus shipping. I ordered 14 and received 16 as John adds a couple to offset any shipping losses.
Pat

[Discus-n00b]

Jealous Pat! Hope these do well for you like the others. I will keep them someday.

[Second Hand Pat]

Jealous Pat! Hope these do well for you like the others. I will keep them someday.

Thanks Matt, I actually hope to do better with these guys then the last batch. Looking for zero deaths and for all to maintain those massive fins which makes them so regal. I hope one day you will have them too. :)
Pat

[Discus-n00b]

Very true, better is always well....better! I haven't fully kept up with the Altum happenings but do the fins just get constantly nipped or are they just lost in captivity?

[Second Hand Pat]

Based on my personal observations Matt with the first group. I had three Altums whose fins got infected when dragged across the bottom of a dirty tank. The fish developed small white fuzz balls on the tips of the fins and the fins were reduced to just a stub. The fins never grew back on those fish. This happened on three of the nine fish from the first batch.
Pat

[rickztahone]

Can't wait Pat. I was tempted last time when you got yours to get some of my own, but I am not ready for an RO unit and the whole shabang.

[Second Hand Pat]

Can't wait Pat. I was tempted last time when you got yours to get some of my own, but I am not ready for an RO unit and the whole shabang.

Let me tempt you Ricardo :evilgrin:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76TWNnOPj_o

[rickztahone]

It is difficult to believe these will become the giant vertical fish that we are so used to seeing! They are so tiny!

[Second Hand Pat]

It is difficult to believe these will become the giant vertical fish that we are so used to seeing! They are so tiny!

They sure are. :)

[Second Hand Pat]

What a different live BBS makes to the feeding response.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d29bNBfq1Sg

[Phillydubs]

Looks like a blizzard of BBS Pat!! Cool video! They look awesome...

What are your recomendations for these, tank sizes, care etc?

[Second Hand Pat]

Looks like a blizzard of BBS Pat!! Cool video! They look awesome...

What are your recomendations for these, tank sizes, care etc?

Phil, the first bit of advice I received from Al was to treat them like discus fry so from that I do daily water changes and daily wipe downs. I found keeping the water and tank clean helped to keep the fins clear and from getting infected. On my last batch (2014) I did have three which were getting picked on quite a bit and I separated these three from the larger ones which helped. I think if I had left the group together those three would have been toast. But two did get infected fins and lost the nice large fin extensions which gives these fish the wow factor.

Paul (pcsb23) advised during a daily 30% and one 50% WC a week to aid in allowing the ph is fall naturally and maintain a TDS of 30 so my water makeup is mostly RO with a dash of tap. Both the 2014 batch and this one is keep in a 40 breeder and if you note the tannins in the water I add rooibos tea to the water. The tea has both anti-bacterial and anti-fungal properties. Rooibos tea was originally recommended to me by the folks on finarama.

As you can see I am feeding BBS but have also introduced live white worms and Al's FDBWs and some have taken a bit of both. Later I will move them to a 75 and finally they will go in my 240.
Pat

[CrazyAngels]

Pat here you go again. :thumbsup: Not only is it a pleasure for me to see you working with angels, but that you now gone for a 2nd batch of Altums. Congrats and many well wishes on raising this batch.

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat here you go again. :thumbsup: Not only is it a pleasure for me to see you working with angels, but that you now gone for a 2nd batch of Altums. Congrats and many well wishes on raising this batch.

Thanks Jorge, appreciate it :D
Pat

[strawberryblonde]

Pat they are SO cute! I can't wait to see how they grow in your tank. I'd love to try them myself, but have to limit myself since I'll be fulltime rv'ing in another 18 months...waaaah! LOL

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat they are SO cute! I can't wait to see how they grow in your tank. I'd love to try them myself, but have to limit myself since I'll be fulltime rv'ing in another 18 months...waaaah! LOL

Thanks Toni and they are cute...fish on stilts lol. I hear you on future fish projects :)
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

The aggression is amping up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rv4QXeLmL_Q

[jawfish]

Ok... I was going to make a comment on how the were peaceful compared to your first group. I was wondering if the agressiveness was something that would develop later...

To more I look at them the more I want some... Pat you're a bad influence ;-)

Keep those videos coming.. I can't get enough of them. The fishroom is a mess so I'm safe for a few months. I guess by that time they'll be all gone and I'll be safe for a while ;-)

Cheers,

Fred

[Second Hand Pat]

Fred, they are quite addicting. It is my understanding that if they fight then they are feeling good so that sounds good to me :)
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Maybe overfeed a bit...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0J0974-Hd4

[rickztahone]

Pat, do you happen to know why wild angels are more readily available at this size than wild discus?

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat, do you happen to know why wild angels are more readily available at this size than wild discus?

My guess Ricardo is that they are easier to collect in large numbers.
Pat

[rickztahone]

My guess Ricardo is that they are easier to collect in large numbers.
Pat

That may just be. I wish we had the wilds more readily available. I know some say that they are harder to raise and get to larger size, but you'd think they'd be more adaptable to tap through the course of their growing.

[Second Hand Pat]

That may just be. I wish we had the wilds more readily available. I know some say that they are harder to raise and get to larger size, but you'd think they'd be more adaptable to tap through the course of their growing.

Ricardo, I know people say their altums are adapted to tap but these fish come from such a sterile acidic environment that I feel we do them a dis-serve placing them in hard water.

[rickztahone]

Ricardo, I know people say their altums are adapted to tap but these fish come from such a sterile acidic environment that I feel we do them a dis-serve placing them in hard water.

I think you are right. They aren't so far removed from their past environment to think that they could adapt so easily. Good point.

[Second Hand Pat]

I think you are right. They aren't so far removed from their past environment to think that they could adapt so easily. Good point.

Could be Ricardo. I wish I had a bit more experience with them. Perhaps more experienced altum keeper can chimp in.

[Second Hand Pat]

I have had these guys a week today and they are doing fabulously and growing like weeds. I got my live BBS sorted out by the third time I tried it. I was harvesting too early (12th hour vs 18th) on the first two attempts and only had enough for a good morning feed. The larger ones are starting to round up and losing the elongated fry shape. The blob on the glass is a thinly sliced section of a FDBW cube which I am introducing before the BBS. They are showing some interest in it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCV9QFGXgNg

[rickztahone]

I have a feeling that in the Amazon, wild fish see the world in this fashion, as if a million little food sources are just floating about. Almost like reefs and micro organisms :)

[Second Hand Pat]

I have a feeling that in the Amazon, wild fish see the world in this fashion, as if a million little food sources are just floating about. Almost like reefs and micro organisms :)

They might be feeding in the water column in the wild like in the tank.

[Altum Nut]

You seem to hold the grow-out crown when it comes to these guys Pat. Day 7 and already look promising but as you know Pat things do turn mysteriously without warning but I have confidence that this is your group that's here to stay.
They look great Pat :thumbsup:

...Ralph

[BigPoecilia]

Pat congratulations on this new batch from John. I saw your video, very nice. John is the go to guy for Altums in my opinion. I have received at least two batches from him over the years and they have always come in great shape.
As for me I'm getting ready for my move to Texas and will have to find a home for my Altums. I have been so busy and not have had the time to visit Simply D as often as i would like but it is sure good to see you with more Altum Angels. Good luck friend.

Lionel

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat congratulations on this new batch from John. I saw your video, very nice. John is the go to guy for Altums in my opinion. I have received at least two batches from him over the years and they have always come in great shape.
As for me I'm getting ready for my move to Texas and will have to find a home for my Altums. I have been so busy and not have had the time to visit Simply D as often as i would like but it is sure good to see you with more Altum Angels. Good luck friend.

Lionel

Thanks Lionel and good luck with your move. I'm sure you will be glad to get that done. It does stink when you have to re-home fish you rather keep.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

The larger ones are approaching quarter size.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsFSSq3p1QI

[Kirbs]

Awesome Pat!

You've got the TOUCH!

[Second Hand Pat]

Awesome Pat!

You've got the TOUCH!

Thanks Kirby :o

[Second Hand Pat]

Two week video and all is well. :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD84dAcYDOY

[strawberryblonde]

Wow, these guys are growing like weeds Pat! They look great and they're fun to watch. It's that "I'm gliding slowly and now I'm ZIPPING along....and now I'm gliding slowly" thing. My dog does that when we take her for walks. All calm and graceful and then she spies something interesting and ZOOM, she's off! And then she loses interest and suddenly she's just calm and graceful again.

Makes me smile. =)

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Toni, they get aggressive with each other just like discus but the altums are quicker. They grow like discus at this age too. :D
Pat

[jawfish]

Quite a different behaviour compared to young discus of the same size... Refreshing in a way and quite addictive...oh...oh... I gonna get myself in trouble if you keep posting those videos :-)

[Second Hand Pat]

Quite a different behaviour compared to young discus of the same size... Refreshing in a way and quite addictive...oh...oh... I gonna get myself in trouble if you keep posting those videos :-)

Ok Fred, I will keep them coming. :p
Pat

[jawfish]

Ok Fred, I will keep them coming. :p
Pat

Aye..Aye...Aye... you're not much help:p
Fred

[KV_Discus]

Pat, what else do you feed them beside BBS? I will be receiving my group of this year this weekend from John so hopefully my group arrive in great shape.

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat, what else do you feed them beside BBS? I will be receiving my group of this year this weekend from John so hopefully my group arrive in great shape.

Hi KV, I am feeding live BBS ATM and also introducing Al's FDBWs. I take a cube and slice it very thin. I want the worm segments to be small. I will then take a slice the press it firmly against the glass to help hydrate it. I want the worms fully hydrated prior to the altums eating it.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Note that I moved the sponge against the back wall of the tank. I had it along the front of the tank to give the altums a little security in the tank. I think they are past that now.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38gHdBnDE6k

[Second Hand Pat]

These guys are doing very well.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COrrZn3WG6U

[jawfish]

Looking good Pat,

They are really nice.

Cheers,
Fred

[Second Hand Pat]

Looking good Pat,

They are really nice.

Cheers,
Fred

Thanks Fred, you may have noticed a few with a big body but short fins. I have been assured that this is just an awkward growth stage. The group as a whole seems to be growing fairly uniform across the different sizes of fish so I'm happy.
Pat

[jawfish]

Interesting. I'm curious to see more video in the coming weeks,

I have to admit Pat that I'm always impressed by how erect these guys look. Those fins are just spread out solid. Its quite a mesmerising effect.

Fred

[tonysdiscus]

I have to agree with you Fred they are pretty and def. eye catching.
Tony

[Second Hand Pat]

Interesting. I'm curious to see more video in the coming weeks,

I have to admit Pat that I'm always impressed by how erect these guys look. Those fins are just spread out solid. Its quite a mesmerising effect.

Fred

I love it Fred when they hold their fins all erect...they look very regal.


I have to agree with you Fred they are pretty and def. eye catching.
Tony

Thanks Tony :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Well, I give up on YouTube adding the music to this video. It has been in edit mode since last night. Boo.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ_OaMAcZKE

[Altum Nut]

Well, I give up on YouTube adding the music to this video. It has been in edit mode since last night. Boo.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ_OaMAcZKE
I tried it once and don't seen to have the patience to wwwwwwwait.:computer:

I'm loving this thread Pat. Even at this size which look spectacular as always in your care...look to be very promising.

...Ralph

[Woodduck]

Pat, with them holding their fins so erect, they are the picture of good heath. Bravo.

[Second Hand Pat]

I tried it once and don't seen to have the patience to wwwwwwwait.:computer:

I'm loving this thread Pat. Even at this size which look spectacular as always in your care...look to be very promising.

...Ralph

Thanks Ralph, these guys are doing very well and I am very happy with them. :)
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat, with them holding their fins so erect, they are the picture of good heath. Bravo.

Thanks Bob, appreciate it :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

I have noticed in the last couple days that there is fin breakage in the ventrals and anal fins on my altums. You can see this in the last video. The breakage is occurring on the tips and results in the fin actually breaking and falling off. Under a members (of finarama) guidance he suggested adding minerals to the water. I have two ways I can do this, either add tap to the RO mix which drives up the TDS and ph or adding discus essentials. Generally I have been maintaining the altums as about a TDS of 30ppm. I found when I started to raise the TDS to about 45 the ph also increases to just under 7. I do not want to cross into the ph alkalinity range so I am opting to maintain my TDS at about 30 and using discus essentials. I have observed improvement in the fins and am not observing additional damage since adding the minerals. I assuming additional minerals benefit the fish and are perhaps a needed component.
Pat

[rickztahone]

I have noticed in the last couple days that there is fin breakage in the ventrals and anal fins on my altums. You can see this in the last video. The breakage is occurring on the tips and results in the fin actually breaking and falling off. Under a members (of finarama) guidance he suggested adding minerals to the water. I have two ways I can do this, either add tap to the RO mix which drives up the TDS and ph or adding discus essentials. Generally I have been maintaining the altums as about a TDS of 30ppm. I found when I started to raise the TDS to about 45 the ph also increases to just under 7. I do not want to cross into the ph alkalinity range so I am opting to maintain my TDS at about 30 and using discus essentials. I have observed improvement in the fins and an not observing additional damage since adding the minerals. I assuming additional minerals benefit the fish and are perhaps a needed component.
Pat

that is a great observation. Please let us know if it holds up in a few weeks.

[Second Hand Pat]

that is a great observation. Please let us know if it holds up in a few weeks.

The fins already look better Ricardo with no new damage. I stoked. :D:D
Pat

[Pardal]

Pat
They are looking really good I enjoy them gulping those bbs,
Have you used Rooi Bush tea at this stage of life too.

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat
They are looking really good I enjoy them gulping those bbs,
Have you used Rooi Bush tea at this stage of life too.

Thanks Julian, I have used the rooibos tea several times. I used it when they first came to assist with acclimation and to help with the fin damage. You can see it in several videos.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Think I have had these guys about a month now. They have grown nicely and all are about quarter sized. The minerals seem to be helping alot with the fins.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvh9nDHg1Qs

[moto250mx]

Pat, seems batch number 2 is much less stressful...I've been following your videos and doesn't seem like you are having any issues at all?...Great work!

Jason

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat, seems batch number 2 is much less stressful...I've been following your videos and doesn't seem like you are having any issues at all?...Great work!

Jason

Thanks Jason, I think I was fairly successful with the first batch considering they were my first altums but I definitely refined my husbandry with these guys and it shows :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Five weeks :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m-v99vNLXg

[Ryan]

Are those the Taenacara candidi in the tank with them? I see them attack the altums a few times -- keep your eyes on them, you don't want them to nip off the altums' streamers!

[Second Hand Pat]

Are those the Taenacara candidi in the tank with them? I see them attack the altums a few times -- keep your eyes on them, you don't want them to nip off the altums' streamers!

They are Ryan and watching closely. They will be moving out soon.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Had these guys eight weeks now so making these little altums about four months old (best guess) :) Doing their water a bit different with the help of a friend. Using RO water (no tap) and adding enough RO right to bring the TDS to 100 and adding discus essentials for the minerals contents. Also there is a light tint of rooibos tea to the water to make these guys happy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrtngLCGUzc

[rickztahone]

Pat, have you observed any differences in this group at this stage to your previous group? How do you feel the different water parameters are affecting their growth, if at all.

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat, have you observed any differences in this group at this stage to your previous group? How do you feel the different water parameters are affecting their growth, if at all.

Ricardo, the fins are definitely in better condition then last years batch. In last years batch there were three fish who's anal and dorsal fins melted into stubs and those fins only partial recovered.

Here's a video of last years group at nine weeks. What do you think? I think last years group is slightly ahead growth wise if you look that the length of the tail tips.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSfsMpfoNqM

[rickztahone]

Ricardo, the fins are definitely in better condition then last years batch. In last years batch there were three fish who's anal and dorsal fins melted into stubs and those fins only partial recovered.

Here's a video of last years group at nine weeks. What do you think? I think last years group is slightly ahead growth wise if you look that the length of the tail tips.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSfsMpfoNqM

agreed, but 1 week can make a big difference at this stage and give or take some days/week for age estimation as well. All in all, I think you are doing a great job with the new group, and I hope the fins stay in tact with this group.

[CrazyAngels]

Dear Pat, those youngsters are looking awesome, you have nothing to worry about. Time to give them some more room and they'll even do better, what size tank are they in??

[Second Hand Pat]

Dear Pat, those youngsters are looking awesome, you have nothing to worry about. Time to give them some more room and they'll even do better, what size tank are they in??

Agreed Jorge, they are moving from a 40 to a 75 tonight :)
Pat

[CrazyAngels]

Awesome, hope the move went well for them and of course you..:D I'm sure they will be much happier with the extra room and you should notice an improvement in growth..

[Second Hand Pat]

Awesome, hope the move went well for them and of course you..:D I'm sure they will be much happier with the extra room and you should notice an improvement in growth..

The move when very well Jorge and the altums went right into hunt mode and have not stopped since. They were desperate for more room.
Pat

[jawfish]

Looking good Pat,

Nice to see those fins in great shape.
These just keep getting better and better... not helping me :o

Cheers,

Fred

[Second Hand Pat]

Been awhile since I have updated these guys. :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsD4eXNWT6E

[rickztahone]

I saw someone locally selling some of these guys for $50 a pop. I actually thought about buying them until I got to the bottom of the thread and saw that they were sold :(. That is probably for the best though, I'm not set up for these beauties.

[Second Hand Pat]

I saw someone locally selling some of these guys for $50 a pop. I actually thought about buying them until I got to the bottom of the thread and saw that they were sold :(. That is probably for the best though, I'm not set up for these beauties.

If you get serious with these guys Ricardo we will talk. It's a bit of work to keep them well.
Pat

[rickztahone]

If you get serious with these guys Ricardo we will talk. It's a bit of work to keep them well.
Pat

You aren't kidding. My current goal has been to set up a 22g SW tank. That would happen before an altum tank I think. When the opportunity seemingly seemed to come my way (via that sale thread), I thought it may have been a sign. Turns it, it wasn't, lol. I will tackle this at some point in my life though. You are doing a great job. Keep it up.

[Second Hand Pat]

You aren't kidding. My current goal has been to set up a 22g SW tank. That would happen before an altum tank I think. When the opportunity seemingly seemed to come my way (via that sale thread), I thought it may have been a sign. Turns it, it wasn't, lol. I will tackle this at some point in my life though. You are doing a great job. Keep it up.

Thanks Ricardo :) Have fun with the SW tank. I love reef tanks.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Making up for lost time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOUY104wvUo

[rickztahone]

The music makes me think they are trying to bust out of their tank and go over to a discus tank and beat them all up! :laugh:

They are looking nice. Their fins for sure look a lot better.

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Ricardo, I actually like that music but is a bit heavy. :) The altums are doing very well.
Pat

[jawfish]

Hey Pat I love your choice of music... Seriously... but then again my range is from bubbly music to hard rock... I do stay away from pop and rap ;)

Now to these guys, could you please stop posting videos... You're driving me crazy... I WANT SOME !!!! I know what I'm getting next year... Wilds again, but this time Altums !!! :o

Seriously they look amazing keep them coming.. You're showing us how to do it. Those erect fins are just impressive... How big are they now ?

Cheers,

Fred

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Fred, my music tastes are fairly broad. :D Are you sure you want me to quit :D I measured one a while back and it was 1.5 inch SL. I would say they range from 1.5 to 2 inches. I had a hard time getting them off BBS and onto other foods but you can see that is no longer an issue :D:D and they are making up for lost ground in the growth arena.
Pat

[CrazyAngels]

Great job Pat, can't wait to see them when they get to about 4" body size. I know you can get them there.

[Second Hand Pat]

Great job Pat, can't wait to see them when they get to about 4" body size. I know you can get them there.

Thanks Jorge, I believe I can :)

[Second Hand Pat]

These guys are roughly five 1/2 months old now. I measured a couple and they range between just under two inches to just over two inches SL.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK-LyYZbkhE

[jawfish]

Man they keep getting better and better Pat.
This tread is becoming a how to of growing Altums ;)

Cheers,

Fred

[Second Hand Pat]

Man they keep getting better and better Pat.
This tread is becoming a how to of growing Altums ;)

Cheers,

Fred

Thanks Fred, I hope it helps folks. :D
Pat

[Lilly]

They are really beautiful fish Pat.

[jawfish]

Thanks Fred, I hope it helps folks. :D
Pat

I'm not sure if it helps folks, I mean I'm looking at getting a bunch next summer, that's not much help :p
But it sure will help those Altums that's for sure :o
Fred

[Second Hand Pat]

They are really beautiful fish Pat.

Thanks Lily :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

I'm not sure if it helps folks, I mean I'm looking at getting a bunch next summer, that's not much help :p
But it sure will help those Altums that's for sure :o
Fred

Well Fred, if they decide to go there :p
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

These guys are putting on some fin. I am bumping the glass to get them to flare at me.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhBPvGKKqa8

[rickztahone]

Some very nice fins there!

[Second Hand Pat]

Some very nice fins there!

:thumbsup:

[jawfish]

Love these update Pat. They are just stunning.
I'm always impress by the erect fins on these guys... I can only imagine what they would look in a 30 inch high tank once get full size.


Keep them coming Pat, I never get tired looking at them

Fred

[Second Hand Pat]

Love these update Pat. They are just stunning.
I'm always impress by the erect fins on these guys... I can only imagine what they would look in a 30 inch high tank once get full size.


Keep them coming Pat, I never get tired looking at them

Fred

Thanks Fred, I am adding rooibos tea to the water to see if the fish will take on a red hue to their fins.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Video of the altums from last night. They are doing great and getting big.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw5lbfGXUOg

[runner]

Pat, how big are these now? They sure look like they have come a long way since dime size.
Jay

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Jay, l measured them about a month ago they all were around two inches. They seem larger now.
Pat

[ericNH]

Your videos are so cool Pat. I always like your choice of background music. I woouldn't care about the music if the videos itself showed poorly-maintained fish, but of course yours are flawless.

[Second Hand Pat]

Your videos are so cool Pat. I always like your choice of background music. I woouldn't care about the music if the videos itself showed poorly-maintained fish, but of course yours are flawless.

Thanks Eric, this group has done very well for me. Haven't had one issue and hoping that continues :)
Pat

[jawfish]

Very nice Pat, I love the progress videos on these guys... keep them coming :-)
Fred

[Second Hand Pat]

Very nice Pat, I love the progress videos on these guys... keep them coming :-)
Fred

Thanks Fred, will do lol.
Pat

[ariodpalm]

Hi Pat,

Amazing videos and husbandry. Maybe you can make a sticky of this thread for folks like me who are thinking about giving Altums a try. I was wondering at what temperature do you keep your Altums? and what is (TDS of about 30) and IALs? I couldn't find it googling.

Thanks
Loc

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Loc,

I am keeping this batch at 82 and I have changed up how I prep the water. I was using mostly RO water with a little tap water to bring the TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) up to 30 ppm (you can measure TDS with a TDS meter). Today I am using 100% RO water and bring the TDS up to about 100 using RO Right and adding Discus Essentials for additional minerals. Prepping the water this way allows the ph to slowly drift down to about 5.5 (best to have a ph moniter is you can keep an eye on it). The minerals in the water help to support fin growth since these guys grow so fast in the first year. IAL are Indian Almond Leaves and I add that to the water when I first receive the altums to help them recover from shipping and acclimate to tank life.

hth
Pat

[ariodpalm]

Pat - Thank you for the quick response and clarification. I've always admired the gracefulness of the Altums; however, was a little timid to try but with your success and documentation. I think I will try next summer when it is a little warmer in Maryland.

V/R
Loc

[jimg]

Very nice Pat!

[Second Hand Pat]

Best of luck with them Loc. Altums are awesome fish but it is very easy to mess them up. Best to keep the water on the acidic side if possible.
Pat

[rickztahone]

Nice video Pat :)

[jawfish]

Hi Pat
How are the altums doing ?

I guess that I'm in need of an altum fix :o

Fred

[Second Hand Pat]

Fred, I traded half of them for four of the Heckels and the other half are in with the Heckels. The altums are doing great and look fantastic. I have a new video of the heckels I will upload soon. Maybe you can get altum fix from that. If not I can do a new video.
Pat

[LuisFS]

Hello Pat,

Can you tell me if your altums are wild or captive breed?

Thanks

[rickztahone]

Hello Pat,

Can you tell me if your altums are wild or captive breed?

Thanks

I can answer that :)

WILD

[Second Hand Pat]

Hello Pat,

Can you tell me if your altums are wild or captive breed?

Thanks

Hi Luis, they are indeed wild as Ricardo posted. The only captive bred I know of in the US are from Mike T.
Pat

[mee]

Every time I look at Altums I am so tempted. I can walk 20 minutes and get them more often than not in my neck of the woods... just don't really have the space =/

[Bala de Plata]

Those Altums look great. Makes me want to try my hand at it again!

[mee]

Actually went to the shop today and saw what I think were wild adults for about $50 each. Seemed reasonable.. but again no space =/

[Second Hand Pat]

Actually went to the shop today and saw what I think were wild adults for about $50 each. Seemed reasonable.. but again no space =/

How large were they mee? An adult altum is about 4 to 5 inches SL so a pretty large fish.
Pat

[mee]

They were easily 5 inches Pat. They were in the corner where most the wild discus are, and had short wild looking fins for lack of a better way to say it. I was chasing my 2 year old around the store so didn't have time to snap a picture, but may be bringing them some fish of my own to sell in the next few days, so will do my best at that time. They have some nice angels in general, and often some young hybrid Altum looking things, but fairly regularly some really nice little full altums (to my eyes) roll through with nice high fins. They price always seems reasonable, and they never seem to last more than a week. I thought I saw some medium small ones today with less than perfect fins, but again was chasing my little one so didn't really stop to get a good look. I was after a heater, not fish anyays ;)

[mee]

Hey Pat, ya know I was back at the shop today and first saw them and said "hmm a bit smaller than I remembered" (about 4 inches), but then I saw a tank above with the two I originally saw, which were definitely 5 inches or so. I went to take a pic, and remembered I left my camera's SD card at home, and the internal storage was full = / Next time if they are still there.

[Second Hand Pat]

That figures mee. :) For whatever reason altum keepers always measure using SL. Perhaps due to the tail having those long beautiful points. Perhaps next time lol.
Pat

[rickztahone]

Hey Pat, ya know I was back at the shop today and first saw them and said "hmm a bit smaller than I remembered" (about 4 inches), but then I saw a tank above with the two I originally saw, which were definitely 5 inches or so. I went to take a pic, and remembered I left my camera's SD card at home, and the internal storage was full = / Next time if they are still there.

I did this at a meeting. I was designated to take pictures of the meeting at a local fish room and when I pulled out the camera and flashes, I try to take a picture and says "please insert memory card". My face was red I'm sure. Never again.....until next time, lol.

[mee]

I did this at a meeting. I was designated to take pictures of the meeting at a local fish room and when I pulled out the camera and flashes, I try to take a picture and says "please insert memory card". My face was red I'm sure. Never again.....until next time, lol.

As I tried to hone my skills with my GH2 to be a psuedo pro, I occasionally found myself traveling an hour or more and realizing I had done the same. With my GH2 it is hacked so has a very high bit rate, so most memory cards I can get won't cut it. It however got me buying many extra's, and I basically kept a bunch in my backpack which was always coming with me anyways. So even if I left 3 or 4 at home, I still had a couple... the whole camera phone thing is very new to me as I resisted the not so smart phones as long as possible. Now I need them for my multicopter hobby.. and it is nice to not always have to lug around the GH2 (though lately have been going back to it for quality reasons). But being micro sd's I only have 3, 1 for my phone, one for my tablet, and one for my gopro.. ok, maybe a couple other small ones I picked up for my audio recorder. Plan on picking up a 64gb for the gopro soon, so then I can put an extra in my backpack for oops moments.

Sooo... the sorta good news Pat, I remembered I tried a quick video with a new camera app I have been trying, cause I noticed even when it says it is full that app seemed to still be recording. Indeed it did, so I have about 10 seconds of not so clear video of the fish. I will try and figure out where it is stored on my phone and post it soon (assuming I don't get better shots soon).

[adrian31@outlook.com]

Great thread pat. Whatever happened to the video of the Altums & Heckels together?

[Second Hand Pat]

Great thread pat. Whatever happened to the video of the Altums & Heckels together?

Never made it Kenny. Had an issue with my parents and sent all the wilds to Al.
Pat

[adrian31@outlook.com]

I see, thanks Pat.