high PH ? here are specs

[Greg5OH]

Hey guys, I have had my dirted tank cycling for approx 2 weeks. I put my cory and pleco in there from my other small tank, both have same water params. They seemed fine in the other tank which was up and running for the last 4 years, seem good in new tank.

I am preparing a home for discus. Tank will be heavily planted, lots of driftwood. 125 gal, 72" 6500K Beamworks LED, fx5 filter.

Main thing is pH. i have well water and a softener. here are my parameters,
I know the pH is way way too high for discus. have not added peat yet.

pH: 8.5
Alkalinity: 500 PPM
hardness: 25 PPM or about 2 GH
nitrates: 1 ppm
nitrites: 0ppm

Any input on the ph and alkalinity?

[jmf3460]

my input is that neither your ph nor your hardness will affect your discus in any way. They will do well and will thrive in your water. You may be limited to domestic discus, many of which were probably grown out in water similar to yours. I think wild caught discus will be out of the picture and I do think that breeding may also be out of the question but if you buy adult domestics they will do just fine in your tank. You will not have success with buying juvies and trying to grow them out in your tank, it is just too complicated raising them in a planted tank where one cannot vacuum out all the hidden poo and uneaten food that will stunt a juvenile discus.

IMO you have two options:
1. buy adult discus, acclimate them and enjoy a beautiful planted discus tank forever and ever amen. (you will still need to do at least twice weekly water changes, discus just require this you have to accept that)
2. buy juvenile discus and grow them out in a separate bare bottom tank (>55gal) with daily water changes and high quality food until they are 5"+ and transfer them, then enjoy a beautiful planted discus tank forever and ever amen

another piece of my $0.02...I think species specific planted tanks look so much more natural and realistic than a planted tank with one of several different types and colors of discus. DiscusPaul on here has beautiful planted tanks and he is successful. I think the contrast of blue discus (cobalt, ss, turquoise etc) looks exceptionally pleasing against the pale and vibrant greens of your plants. THis is just my opinion not a fact.

See this thread, http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?111542-Planted-Albino-Discus-Tank&highlight=planted+tank this guy does an exceptional job with his plants and his species specific fish, holy cow this looks good.

[MadMatt]

All my Discus are in ph 8.27, TDS 115-135
Including my wild and his female pair which is f2 wild as well.
Whether if its wild or domestic is about the PH stability and the quality of water.

[Greg5OH]

Thank you for the insight guys. I did not know raising juvis in a planted tank is not recommended.
What temp is best for them to thrive? Dont care for breeding, just good health, I have the tank at 82F right now.
Species specific is cool, I too dont like a barage of mixed colors.
However I do plan on having 6-8 cories, about 20-30 neon tetras along with the discus.
As this is my first time caring for discus, I dont want to be spending $100 a fish, especially since I would like to have 8 of them.

I know with alot of things in life, you have to pay to play. exotic and wild caught aside, is is feasable to find adult discus in the 60-75$ range? Do I need to get them all at once?

[nc0gnet0]

Since this is your first time with Discus, I highly recommend you learn to walk before you try to run.....

To that end, you would be well served just starting out with a bare bottom tank, some decent 3.5-4.5" juvies, and 50% or greater daily water changes. If you don't take my advice, there is a good chance your first attempt at discus will not end well.

As for temperature, 82 degrees is perfect.

Can you find healthy adult/near adult discus in the 60-75 dollar range?......... I think so

I know a guy :)

However, this "guy" can be quite a pita, refusing to sell to someone with a planted tank and has never kept discus before.

[strawberryblonde]

lol Rick!!!

I'm with him, I know a girl who will happily sell you 8 of her adults if you wait till the 2016 NADA show AND promise to keep them in a non-planted tank for at least a year - plus daily water changes.

[Greg5OH]

hmm well I definitly cant say that I will keep them in a BB tank as I am setting up my 125 planted tank to be my main display tank. i have a spare 55 gallon in the laundry room as my QT tank, it is BB, but hardly a place to showcase a beautiful discus!

[discuspaul]

Well Greg, as has been said, there's a choice that needs to be made between only 2 options:

That is, if you want to succeed at keeping discus in good health over the longer term.

- You either get juvenile discus for cost reasons, and grow them out in your BB 55gal for several months until they reach adult, or near adult stage ( 5" or more), caring for them with large, frequent wcs (preferably daily), a good tank cleaning routine, and several feedings a day. Then following that, you can place them in your aqua-scaped 125 gal display tank to enjoy.
- Or, You save enough $$ to get adult discus for placing directly in your display tank. This will give you sufficient time to plan your tank well, do your necessary preliminary discus research, and decide on a suitably qualified supplier of quality fish.
If you select option 2 you would still need to properly care for them through reasonably frequent large wcs and an accompanying thorough, regular tank cleansing regimen.
Best of luck to you.

[MadMatt]

I would listen to "nc0gnet0", this is a very honest and insight approach to getting into the Discus hobby.
nc0gnet0 is a senior go to person in this forum, this is how I got into keeping Discus as well.
I was into aquaitc hobby for almost 16 years, 4 years ago I discided to really do something challenging in the hobby and buy 4 turquoise juvenile discus for my wife, she has always loved Discus, so it was a fitting endeavour.
I would start out with older juveniles we have them available around our city for about $55-$75, if you bought 7-8 I think they would sell them for about $25-$55 ea as a group discount, depending on the size, color, type.





Since this is your first time with Discus, I highly recommend you learn to walk before you try to run.....

To that end, you would be well served just starting out with a bare bottom tank, some decent 3.5-4.5" juvies, and 50% or greater daily water changes. If you don't take my advice, there is a good chance your first attempt at discus will not end well.

As for temperature, 82 degrees is perfect.

Can you find healthy adult/near adult discus in the 60-75 dollar range?......... I think so

I know a guy :)

However, this "guy" can be quite a pita, refusing to sell to someone with a planted tank and has never kept discus before.

[Greg5OH]

Understood. I would be looking for the discus around nov/dec time so I can get the tank fully planted and make sure everything is stable. I have no problem doing water changes, water test kit will be in tomorrow and I will monitor the parameters closely to see how the water behaves. I will be going with adults 5" or so to start off with. I dont want to stunt or harm a juvi. It is a bit more money but you get a "nicer" fish to start off with, and a hardier one at that.

I know it is ok to keep some smaller fish with discus, I was thinking of getting a school of 20-30 neon tetras to go along with them?

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Greg, do you have any experience with a planted tank? If not you have received some sage advice. Keeping discus in a planted tank successfully requires advanced skill and knowledge in both planted tanks and discus and knowledge on balancing both.

I would suggest developing the skill sets separate and combine in the future. Best of luck with your decisions.
Pat

ps: best to keep cardinal tetras with the discus. Neon tetras burn out at the higher discus temperatures. Also would suggest watching the video in the first post of this thread http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?120715-How-to-keep-discus!. It is a must watch for new discus keepers.

[MadMatt]

Great video!!!!
:)



Hi Greg, do you have any experience with a planted tank? If not you have received some sage advice. Keeping discus in a planted tank successfully requires advanced skill and knowledge in both planted tanks and discus and knowledge on balancing both.

I would suggest developing the skill sets separate and combine in the future. Best of luck with your decisions.
Pat

ps: best to keep cardinal tetras with the discus. Neon tetras burn out at the higher discus temperatures. Also would suggest watching the video in the first post of this thread http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?120715-How-to-keep-discus!. It is a must watch for new discus keepers.

[Greg5OH]

I watched that vid, was cool.
Yes I have had a planted small 15gallon that has been up and running close to 5 years now. Nothing special, jut some mollies, ghost shrimp and few corys.

[a.person61]

This reminds me of what im doing at the moment. Get the plants and display tank 200% start the discus in a bb QT tank and keep them there till you know what you're doing. Thats my plan anyway... you should discard my advice unless the pros says its good.

[MadMatt]

I watch that video and it made me start to change water again! (Second time that day).
Clean clean clean and more clean water!

[Greg5OH]

I gotta ask, isnt that a bit redundant? Do you see any change in nitrites or ammonia to prompt the water change?
Its no secret that clean water is good for discus (or any fish really), however do you see that perhaps the water buffers are being used up to prompt the water change?

obviously in a BB/non planted tank waste is being built up constantly. This is why I like planted tanks so much, plants are super bio filters!
Ill be honest, I hardly do any maintenance on my 15g. Heavy planted, medium light, penguin 200 hob. I change 50% water maybe once a month if that, top up every week or two. I never checked water params other than pH, and the fish in there were relatively hardy, but everything just works and flourishes in there!

[MadMatt]

Do that to a discus tank and find out how long you have fish for, also they wouldn't grow very big in an environment. Like that. Discus need clean water and forget about what you think you know about clean water. It's about the build up of DOW (Disolved Organic Waist), fish poop, food waist, nitrate, etc. if your DOW is allowed to build you will fester pathogens and parasites, the next thing you know your $200 a fish discus are infected, hunger strike and getting ready to meet the great discus in the sky shortly.
trust me you need to change lots of water if you want them to grow large and healthy.

I gotta ask, isnt that a bit redundant? Do you see any change in nitrites or ammonia to prompt the water change?
Its no secret that clean water is good for discus (or any fish really), however do you see that perhaps the water buffers are being used up to prompt the water change?

obviously in a BB/non planted tank waste is being built up constantly. This is why I like planted tanks so much, plants are super bio filters!
Ill be honest, I hardly do any maintenance on my 15g. Heavy planted, medium light, penguin 200 hob. I change 50% water maybe once a month if that, top up every week or two. I never checked water params other than pH, and the fish in there were relatively hardy, but everything just works and flourishes in there!

[Greg5OH]

let me also say I am in no way being stubborn or picking fights, I just like to know the specifics of any methods or practices. Before I really get into anything I want to know every detail about it.
so lets talk about bio filtering and turnover rate, and DOWs.
a fish excretes feces (solid) and urine (ammonia), (dissolved organic waste). Assuming you have a filter with sufficient turn over rate, and the appropriate bacterial colonies established on your filter surfaces, shouldn't those bacteria be able to take care of any DOW for X amount of time before needing to change the water because you are at a saturation point? As in, did the bacteria become over run by the nitrates and ammonia between that first water change of the day to the second?

For my curiosity, and because i like to see data, would you be able to do a water test next time you do a 2x a day water change?
Again, this is just to satisfy my own curiosity, and help me understand water chemistry in a sensitive environment.

I did read the water change formula on the website, it does state this is for an unplanted tank. as a side note, obviously how many plants and what kind will determine the biofilter efficiency, but how much does a planted tank help vs no plants?

[strawberryblonde]

Hi there,

I'm not advocating twice a day water changes (though there are instances where it's necessary, they are not the norm for a main discus tank).

I do want to speak to this DOW thing though. It's a term I've never heard before today. The one I've read about is DOC's. Dissolved Organic Compounds.

DOC's are definitely important to consider when you are deciding when and how much water to change in any fish tank, especially in a discus tank.

But you also have to consider the gradual buildup of pathogens (bacteria, parasites and molds) in the water column. Discus are very hardy fish with good immune systems, but they are affected by the most innocuous of things: stress, bad food, dirty water, sudden changes in water temps, plus any nitrates present on a daily basis.

Taken one at a time and in small doses, their immune systems can handle it and any depression in the immune system is usually temporary. But, when some or all of these are present long enough, their immune systems can't recoup and that's when you run into problems - especially if you have a large load of opportunistic bacteria and parasites in the tank.

Knowing that, many of us do the best we can to keep pathogens to a minimum, DOC's at their lowest possible levels and quality of food high.

I can tell you from my personal experiences that keeping discus in a planted tank is a lot more work than in a tank with just a sand substrate, some driftwood and maybe a few plants attached to the driftwood (the plants are still a pain when you have to pull out the driftwood to clean it!)

[MadMatt]

Good call Toni, our friend "Greg" is mentioning doing 5% wc a month in a planted tank. Im not sure that would be the best.
DOC or DOW (depending on what language your subscribe to), it all boils down to the motive of water changes.

[nc0gnet0]

But you also have to consider the gradual buildup of pathogens (bacteria, parasites and molds) in the water column. Discus are very hardy fish with good immune systems, but they are affected by the most innocuous of things: stress, bad food, dirty water, sudden changes in water temps, plus any nitrates present on a daily basis.

Not only this, but remember that we keep discus at a higher temperature than other fresh water species, and this too adds to the equation due to the fact bacteria and parasites reproduce as faster rates in a higher temperature.

The whole "plants are great filters" is a big myth. Or, perhaps better worded as a "half truth". For every one part or real benefit that a plant adds to a tank, the sad truth is the substrate in which the plants needs to grow will more than negate this benefit, resulting in a net loss.

Mechanical filters are great, but, they too can be an issue unless cleaned frequently. All they are really doing is removing the crap from our view, but yet that same crap is still very much in the water column/flow. It's just like a little kid that cleans his/her room by hiding everything under the bed.

As for data, is it really necessary? Is not the word of mouth experiences by those of us that have kept and grown out multiple batches of discus good enough for the OP?

[Greg5OH]

Thanks for the rapid replies. Word of mouth is good but I like to have empirical data infront of me so I know for a fact that "this is like this because of this."
I am not opposed to water changes, I am opposed to extremely frequent water changes. Simply put I don't have the time in the day to be messing with water changes.
What I do like are large water changes. i have no problems doing a 75% WC weekly. Thats almost 100 gallons of changed water in a planted tank, fx5, 6-8 adult discus, 30 neon tetras and a few cories, a light-moderate bioload IMO.

Noew some may say , if you dont have the time to do daily water changes, dont get into the hobby. To this i say, this is why I want empirical, quantifiable data to base a decision on. I will have my own data to go on later this year early next when everything is established, grown out and have the desired stock. I am however taking everyone's advice and going with adult discus and not juvi's. just the frequency of feeding alone doesn't align with my schedule.


As an example, i was reading a thread in the wilds section here, a fellow has 6 or 7 wilds in a 75gallon who does 30% water changes weekly, and has raised them from about 3 or 4 inch to full adults, all look very nice.

Again, every body's set up is unique. Myself, I would like to see what the water parameters are at 2 days, 4 days, 7 days etc in your tank, and mine.

Also, very good point about the higher temps being a better breeding ground for pathogens.

[Second Hand Pat]

Greg, while you may want empirical data the fact is most of us rolled up our sleeves and do the water changes the fish need to thrive. We do not measure and record, we just do. The fish will tell you if something is amiss but the eye for that takes a bit of practice. Also much of the advise you are getting from the more experienced members is not word of mouth but what we practice on a daily basis. So please do your reading and research and go from there. I am concerned that with your current mindset you may not be successful.
Pat

[Greg5OH]

ah see, 2 things that are conflicting,
1-do it just because you do. This is like changing your cars engine oil at 3000 miles when in reality, if one were to actualy get an oil analysis done, one would see the oil is fine up to 7000 miles.

however!

doing it because you see indicators in your fish, which I agree takes a keen eye, similar to a good mechanic diagnosing an issue by ear and feel, is a very good indicator. Eventually you notice the patterns and do preventative maintenance BEFORE your fish give you indicators. Perhaps the patterns suggested you DO need daily water changes, or perhaps the patterns suggested you need it every 3 days, 5 dyas, 7, 10 w.e. it may be.
There is no question that doing daily water changes is good, just like changing your engine oil every week is good (but not filter actually!), but is it NECESSARY, is the question.

And those are two different things. Its the difference between hearing and feeling a failing wheel bearing, vs replacing the entire axle "just to be safe"

[Second Hand Pat]

There also the old adage, "if it ain't broke don't fix it". Perhaps best for you to decide how you wish to approach this and document it here on the forum. Describe your tank, size and number of fish, husbandry planned and document your results with weekly updates with pictures. We have many new members who come to the forum and question the water changes. We generally see one of three results; they disappear, they end up with sick fish and post in the emergency room section or modify their husbandry techniques so they are successful with their discus. Best of luck with whatever you decide to do.
Pat

[Woodduck]

To add to what Pat said, the data is all over this forum. The pictures of peoples's Discus that "heard" or "read" that frequent wc are not necessary that they post when the health of their Discus has gone south and the other pictures of people's wonderfully healthy and robust Discus that have been around long enough to know that it is imperitive to do frequent, if not daily wc of 50 to 100 percent. We had one person recently that came asking, when "knowing" all the answers, that came back when his tank crashed with problems. Not trying to put you down, just want to see you save some heartbreak and $s by starting out correctly.

[Rudustin]

I try not to get into these kinds of discussions because it seems since I have been on SD that someone comes out of the wood work demanding or questioning the idea of water changes frequent or otherwise. However, I think Pat brings up a very good point. The fish will tell you whether or not frequent water changes are necessary but unfortunately by the time, especially if someone is inexperienced, the signals are read one could lose fish and that would be sad at best. We have yet to see someone experiment with the likely scenario of not doing the frequent water changes and thus providing data to refute this claim by so many of us here that have taken the frequent water change regime. So, why don't you simply do what you think is best for you and then report to the forum your findings since our empirical data (less or more of it) doesn't seem to be adequate. We welcome an alternative to having to do the water changes but as yet very few if any have been able to show us this proof. We continually ask for an alternative by many people who have questioned this technique but we have seldom seen anyone who has experimented with the idea and had fish to prove their claim. Discus are special in the freshwater world and those of us that keep them have made many mistakes keeping them. I for one have lost many discus over the years from husbandry issues and the cure all for most of my mistakes has been frequent water changes. If someone can come up with a way to avoid those changes I for one would be delighted to hear and see that plan. Best wishes in your decision to keep discus and your plan to do so. Rufus

[MadMatt]

Greg,
Let me share this with you, I have been in the aquarium hobby on and off for over 20 years (more on then off). About 4 years ago I wanted a bit more of a challenge and my wife always loved discus, so it was fitting to do it together, so off we went, we started with a 50g bow front, then we traded up and up and more trades, soon we were buying and selling many tanks in the used market and classified sites left and right. Then we really got the bug when we had a pair spawn and bring us fry, this is when the trouble started...lol and the rest is history. Now we have 120g, 90g, 11 tank breeding hobby (6x20g, 3x30g, 2x55g). When we started we tried to keep ph at 6.2 buffering like crazy, fish all stressed from ph swings, I bought a 6 stage RO system, I had the opinion like you, why change the water when the parameters are perfect, "10% a week would be good" and that's what I did on all my tanks, after aquireing 30 plus discus things were going ok, I didn't have to play with much chemicals because I was only changing 5-10% a week, and we over filtered all our tanks 2-3 times the recommended filtration on each tank.
Things went pretty good for about 6-8 months. But what I didn't know was all my discus ammune system we getting lower and lower as the months went on, I started off with all healthy discus, I bought all quality fish, (looking back I can see why they lasted so long with minimal ill signs because they were so healthy), but looking back they were suffering and I was to ignorant and oblivious to the fact and I couldn't see how sick they were actually getting, you see I was an immature discus owner and I couldn't see how sick my fish actually were. Slowly but surely my discus started to look stress and all their appetites started to dwindle, then bang!!! It happened, after 10 months my first fish stopped eating, she was sick and very sick with a internal infection, we treated her and she did get better, for a bit, but she got sick again, that fist struggle with illness on and off for about 2 years because I was so stupid and stubborn to see the error in my thinking, because "why change more water the parameters are perfect".
To make a long story short I struggled with ill fish on and off because I refused to spead a few bucks on water changes, instead I opted to spead $100's in meds instead and still end up with ill fish.
About 6-7 months ago I started to read on a great forum "simply discus.com", all these crazy discus people just like me, struggling with aweigh different things, most of them doing very well, but one thing in common "they all change water like a nut bag". So I started to change water like them, and I will tell you, the difference is night and day.
I can't argue with the results I have seen.
And I will tell you this and confess to something I am not proud of at all but maybe the experience might help you or maybe someone else reading this.
That first young female discus that suffered from poor water quality did eventually die, I treated her on and off her entire life, she was sick more then healthy, she died stunted beyond and paper thin, with swollen gills from so much medication treatment, she made it to the ripe age of around 4, sick and suffering the entire time. The last 5 months was probably the best time of her life because I changed the water on her tank everyday but she was so sick from me being a bone head she basically crashed out and died from exhausting, her body just to beat-in to live any long.
So if you love discus and respect life take our advice, there are many experienced and far advanced discus owners and breeders then I, and they are all saying the same thing.
Change water like a nut bag and you will have minimal problems.

[Greg5OH]

that story was heart wrenching matt!

Ok so let me ask this from a different angle, the plan are for 30ish cardinal tetras, 6-8 corys and 8 adult 5"+ discus, the discus woudl be last to come. 125 gallon tank, fx5 filter, Heavily planted. According to this, would you guys still say it is necessary to do daily w.c.?
I am thinking I need to set up a built in tube in the tank that allows quick and easy water line hookup from the tap. Just twist on and open the ball valve to start the siphon. Right now I am having to use a wood working clamp to hold the hos eot the top of the tank and another clamp at the laundry sink to hold the hose on, make sure it doesnt slip off and empty 100 gallons on the carpet.

And what do you do when you go on vacation for a week or two?

[MadMatt]

There was just a thread about going on vacation, however the short of it is pretty simple, do a large water change the day before you go and don't feed them till you get back, an adult Discus can last 4 week plus with out food easily, so not feeding for 1-2 weeks wouldn't be a problem, provided there healthy.
As far as water changes, I have done exactly what your doing with hoses and wood clamps, it works pretty good.
Re: water changes:
I might try 30%-40 daily, I'm sure you could cheat a few times a week then do a large WC (75%).
I would plumb up some pex with valves to regulate temp, I would also plumb a 3 stage filter in so I wouldnt have to use any chemicals and change every night before bed. My 120g is in my master bedroom, me and my wife love watching the water change when I turn it on and pump the siphon, I let it run 20-25mins, that changes about 50%, if I cheated the day before I just left it run longer, if I want to change out 100% I let it run 45mins, some times I've left it on 2hrs accidentally... Lol... The water was clean that day!
:)
Moral of the story is try to be diligent and change as much water as you can and set it up so it takes as little time as possible so you can keep up with ultra clean water regiment.


that story was heart wrenching matt!

Ok so let me ask this from a different angle, the plan are for 30ish cardinal tetras, 6-8 corys and 8 adult 5"+ discus, the discus woudl be last to come. 125 gallon tank, fx5 filter, Heavily planted. According to this, would you guys still say it is necessary to do daily w.c.?
I am thinking I need to set up a built in tube in the tank that allows quick and easy water line hookup from the tap. Just twist on and open the ball valve to start the siphon. Right now I am having to use a wood working clamp to hold the hos eot the top of the tank and another clamp at the laundry sink to hold the hose on, make sure it doesnt slip off and empty 100 gallons on the carpet.

And what do you do when you go on vacation for a week or two?

[Second Hand Pat]

that story was heart wrenching matt!

Ok so let me ask this from a different angle, the plan are for 30ish cardinal tetras, 6-8 corys and 8 adult 5"+ discus, the discus woudl be last to come. 125 gallon tank, fx5 filter, Heavily planted. According to this, would you guys still say it is necessary to do daily w.c.?
I am thinking I need to set up a built in tube in the tank that allows quick and easy water line hookup from the tap. Just twist on and open the ball valve to start the siphon. Right now I am having to use a wood working clamp to hold the hos eot the top of the tank and another clamp at the laundry sink to hold the hose on, make sure it doesnt slip off and empty 100 gallons on the carpet.

And what do you do when you go on vacation for a week or two?

Greg, besides doing the large water change just before leaving you also quit feeding 24 hours before the water change. You quit feeding to allow the fish to empty their gut and you want to remove waste etc so the water remains clean while you are gone.
Pat

[MadMatt]

+1!
:)


Greg, besides doing the large water change just before leaving you also quit feeding 24 hours before the water change. You quit feeding to allow the fish to empty their gut and you want to remove waste etc so the water remains clean while you are gone.
Pat

[MadMatt]

What I did, before I left was 100% wc for three days prior, wipe all the tank down inside and vacuum with each change, stop feeding like Pat said 24hrs before last change, I was gone for 5 days, I came back to happy healthy, very hungry Discus!
:)

[Greg5OH]

went to pick up dog food at local pet store, foudn they have 1 single discus, a juvi, 2.5" long, 22 bucks...had ot pick her up. I believ eit is a female due to the dorsal and anal fins intersecting the tail fin.
She is eating well and is curious, we will see how she matures. Looks to be a white or yellow base with red pigeon, with some blue on the fins.

good eyes, full forehead. Currently feeding freeze dried bloodworms, omega one flake (mainly for neons) and hikari slow sinking baby cichlid pellets.
Have on order 50/50 beefheart/CBW freeze dried cubes.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb147/PolishSasquatch/fish/9A5589EC-A6D1-432C-AD48-ADDD8C8DE1B1_zpssvwqnbbz.jpg (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/PolishSasquatch/media/fish/9A5589EC-A6D1-432C-AD48-ADDD8C8DE1B1_zpssvwqnbbz.jpg.html)
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb147/PolishSasquatch/fish/104BBA93-485E-4322-AA08-09D532E57E36_zpsxqfyqjr6.jpg (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/PolishSasquatch/media/fish/104BBA93-485E-4322-AA08-09D532E57E36_zpsxqfyqjr6.jpg.html)

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Greg, I hope you QTed this fish. It is actually behind in it's growth. If you look at the forehead from the side view this fish should have a nicely rounded forehead. It is also longer then it is tall.
Pat

[Greg5OH]

good observations and good to know! I guess all I can do for it is feed it good food often and keep good water? I had it in a small QT with pranzi for 3 days.
Clearly, still have a bunch of research and learning to do. Definitly will be doing adults in the future though.

in your opinion, you think the fish was not fed enough during its young stages?

[Second Hand Pat]

A six week QT period is what we recommend for new fish. Hope it grows nicely for you.
Pat

[nc0gnet0]

yikes

[MadMatt]

Asking for disasters on your first Discus experience.
What problems could stunt its growth?
Many things: illnesses, parasites, poor water conditions, poor quality food, possibly all or multiple combinations of above or other things I haven't mentioned.
Not to mention this guy can bring viruses and or parasites into your tank you just set up.
I see problems and more problems in the future.
I hope I'm wrong. :(

[Greg5OH]

well shes definitly not round after taking a good look at juvis posted up over this site, but she is coloring up and is a voracious eater! curious and active fish. Hope she grows well. I feed her a mixed dietr of hikaki discus gold, freezedried 50/50 BH/CBW, and freeze dried blood worms. omega 1 flake food to distract the neons. Pic taken just after feeding.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb147/PolishSasquatch/fish/C23CBB3D-0F52-42DA-AFF1-3CCE2FC6D1AD_zpsczptwkrr.jpg (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/PolishSasquatch/media/fish/C23CBB3D-0F52-42DA-AFF1-3CCE2FC6D1AD_zpsczptwkrr.jpg.html)

[Woodduck]

that story was heart wrenching matt!

Ok so let me ask this from a different angle, the plan are for 30ish cardinal tetras, 6-8 corys and 8 adult 5"+ discus, the discus woudl be last to come. 125 gallon tank, fx5 filter, Heavily planted. According to this, would you guys still say it is necessary to do daily w.c.?
I am thinking I need to set up a built in tube in the tank that allows quick and easy water line hookup from the tap. Just twist on and open the ball valve to start the siphon. Right now I am having to use a wood working clamp to hold the hos eot the top of the tank and another clamp at the laundry sink to hold the hose on, make sure it doesnt slip off and empty 100 gallons on the carpet.

And what do you do when you go on vacation for a week or two?

I have the set up you're refering to. For my fish room, which is my lanai and has an outside door, I simply have a black u tube that comes out of the tank and down in back about level with the bottom of the tank. It has a quick disconnect, so when it's time, and it's ALWAYS time, I just hook that tank's hose (keep your hoses separate), give it a slurp and away we go. I have the tanks marked for 50% 75% and 90%.

[Greg5OH]

the discus is doing great! she feeds from my hand every day, healthy eater, good swimmer very curious. My wife and I seem to agree she has grown a bit, maybe 1/4" or so, her forehead seems to be getting more round (fish body growing vertically). I feed her hikari discus bio gold before work, FD beefheart after work, FD blackworms about 3-4 hours later, then a few more pellets of discus. Doing a 90% WC today. did a 50% 4 days ago. Added a few more plants over last few days. Going to order some anubias soon too.

I asked about vacations and discus, I now know adults will have no problem not eating for a week, but this is a juvi and I want to help her growth as much as I can.
I will be leaving for 9 days end of sept. Other than large WC leading up to our departure, what can I do for the juvi? Just feed her more frequently and alot in the 203 days leading up to the trip?

[Greg5OH]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkjr9PNVBC4

[MadMatt]

Awesome!!!...lol
Gotta love it.
:)
Little guys looks like he/she is doing awesome.
Keep it up brother.
;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkjr9PNVBC4

[Greg5OH]

maintaining 50-60% WC every 3-4 days, and jsut feed her 4 times a day. She appears to be bigger, seems the belly and bottom portion is coming down/becoming rounder and the forehead is starting to to grow higher.
I dont expect her to be a full on super big round discus, ill jsut treat her the best I can, and take it all as a learning experience!

[Greg5OH]

Disco sue is doing well good color good eater always curious.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb147/PolishSasquatch/fish/692C8413-0B9C-427F-A52C-DCC7AC2F9552_zpsqwnn2xzj.jpg (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/PolishSasquatch/media/fish/692C8413-0B9C-427F-A52C-DCC7AC2F9552_zpsqwnn2xzj.jpg.html)

[Jack L]

is this the dirted tank?
what is on the bottom, how is it going? i'm interested in trying dirted.
thanks

[Greg5OH]

is this the dirted tank?
what is on the bottom, how is it going? i'm interested in trying dirted.
thanks

Yes has about 100 lbs top soil, 35 pounds of natural clay kitty litter, and capped with black beuty blasting sand. Been running for 5 months, water is still never 100% clear. Certain plants are really liking it especially the anubias nana which isn't pictured. 75% WC every 3 days.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb147/PolishSasquatch/fish/7A6A1030-6F64-4097-BCF5-56D3FF8EA10F_zpsoa9g9mui.jpg (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/PolishSasquatch/media/fish/7A6A1030-6F64-4097-BCF5-56D3FF8EA10F_zpsoa9g9mui.jpg.html)
bottom pic 1 month old

took this one about a week ago
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb147/PolishSasquatch/fish/B996239A-F499-4C05-8513-BC1E37A139DB_zpsebeczdje.jpg (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/PolishSasquatch/media/fish/B996239A-F499-4C05-8513-BC1E37A139DB_zpsebeczdje.jpg.html)

[Jack L]

like it, thanks for extra details
TFS about the cloudiness. you could try some polishing floss or drops to see if it clears up though.

i can't decide if i want to mess w/ dirt or not.

p.s. do you really need the aerator? thought that robs water of C02 that your plants need.

[Greg5OH]

Indeed the polishing floss helped when I had it but I found the filter would really slow down within a week, the dirt particles would clog it up to much. However-now it may be better as the dirt is pretty well settled.
I have been using the aerator to help break up the protein film up top. On the one side where the filter discharges is fine, but on the other side (where aerator is) always had the film build up, regardless of Water changes. Only way I was able to get rid of it was through more surface agitation, and im not about to drop a HOB on it as the sound annoys me too much. THat being said, I havent noticed detrimental effects to the plants, but that is not to say they wouldnt benefit with it turned off.


Also, my Jack Wattley discus came in on Friday. THey are all assimilating well, establishing dominance and eating well. Very curious, though a few still a bit shy. Great shape to them. Unfortunately they developed ich overnight fri-sat, so I have been treating them with some ich guard and mainting 50% daily WC. Has cleared up alot, 2 fish still exhibit some signs of it on their pectoral fins. maintaining 84F tank temp, took it to 86 but the cories really didn't like it

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb147/PolishSasquatch/fish/36B49906-E6F3-40BD-8CD4-A28F81971AA8_zpsqd082aj7.jpg (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/PolishSasquatch/media/fish/36B49906-E6F3-40BD-8CD4-A28F81971AA8_zpsqd082aj7.jpg.html)
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb147/PolishSasquatch/fish/AAA42359-053E-41BE-AF72-9FF54E2634B1_zpsvvt64ngm.jpg (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/PolishSasquatch/media/fish/AAA42359-053E-41BE-AF72-9FF54E2634B1_zpsvvt64ngm.jpg.html)
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb147/PolishSasquatch/fish/11B0C19D-27FA-4C4F-99D9-50B4F463C1B4_zpsbmrjxzdl.jpg (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/PolishSasquatch/media/fish/11B0C19D-27FA-4C4F-99D9-50B4F463C1B4_zpsbmrjxzdl.jpg.html)

[Las Vegas]

WoW! Using water with ph over 8? I just don't understand how that's possible? I understand, clean, clean water. But I could never keep my discus alive or without health problems when I used hard water. Even after aging tap water in a new cleaned plastic container the water was never good enough. I eventually had to use a R/O water system. When the ph came down and doing everyother day water changes, things became good for the fish. That was in a 75 gal aq with a couple of potted amazon swordtail plants. So I can't agree with using aged tap water at ph 8 or over. So good luck with that.

[Las Vegas]

Oh yea, one more opinion. Water temp. Keep at least at 82 deg. If that water temp gets under 80, the fish go into shock and get sick real fast.

[Jack L]

Indeed the polishing floss helped when I had it but I found the filter would really slow down within a week, the dirt particles would clog it up to much. However-now it may be better as the dirt is pretty well settled.
I have been using the aerator to help break up the protein film up top. On the one side where the filter discharges is fine, but on the other side (where aerator is) always had the film build up, regardless of Water changes. Only way I was able to get rid of it was through more surface agitation, and im not about to drop a HOB on it as the sound annoys me too much. THat being said, I havent noticed detrimental effects to the plants, but that is not to say they wouldnt benefit with it turned off.


Also, my Jack Wattley discus came in on Friday. THey are all assimilating well, establishing dominance and eating well. Very curious, though a few still a bit shy. Great shape to them. Unfortunately they developed ich overnight fri-sat, so I have been treating them with some ich guard and mainting 50% daily WC. Has cleared up alot, 2 fish still exhibit some signs of it on their pectoral fins. maintaining 84F tank temp, took it to 86 but the cories really didn't like it

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb147/PolishSasquatch/fish/36B49906-E6F3-40BD-8CD4-A28F81971AA8_zpsqd082aj7.jpg (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/PolishSasquatch/media/fish/36B49906-E6F3-40BD-8CD4-A28F81971AA8_zpsqd082aj7.jpg.html)
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb147/PolishSasquatch/fish/AAA42359-053E-41BE-AF72-9FF54E2634B1_zpsvvt64ngm.jpg (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/PolishSasquatch/media/fish/AAA42359-053E-41BE-AF72-9FF54E2634B1_zpsvvt64ngm.jpg.html)
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb147/PolishSasquatch/fish/11B0C19D-27FA-4C4F-99D9-50B4F463C1B4_zpsbmrjxzdl.jpg (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/PolishSasquatch/media/fish/11B0C19D-27FA-4C4F-99D9-50B4F463C1B4_zpsbmrjxzdl.jpg.html)

they look nice w/ the dark substrate. i had a issue with ICH with this school. FWIW pay attention to the breath count, they still had it in their gills even though there wasn't visible ich on body until it would work down their immune system and show on body again.

there is some info on board and TONS on the web on it.

[Greg5OH]

they look nice w/ the dark substrate. i had a issue with ICH with this school. FWIW pay attention to the breath count, they still had it in their gills even though there wasn't visible ich on body until it would work down their immune system and show on body again.

there is some info on board and TONS on the web on it.


Thank you, the body and fins are totally clear as of yesterday, I shall monitor their gills. Still doing 50% WC a day. yes the PH is high, but its very stable, and very soft actually. It all runs through the house softener. IM on well water, i dont age or do R/O or any of that stuff. My tank temp I am maintaining 83F now, the discus are active, all of them are growing infront of my eyes, school together, and are voracious eaters! Water is now crystal clear. My oldest discus is getting so big round and full! my wife and I very much enjoy watching their interactions.
One of the smallest/weaker fish when we first got them last week was bullied, now turned aroudn and is the most aggressive in the tank, fiercely defending its beefheart chunks she rips off. Fins always up.
The discus interactions amongst themselves is very cool. Definitly brought my older/lone discus really alive. her colors are even more vibrant. Very tame fish, likes to be tickled.
tank is stable with 0 amm, 0 nitrites, 2-4 ppm nitrites (pretty much all yello, cant make out if there is any orange in the water sample)

I am trying to ween the new discus off of beefheart and onto the black worms, as its a cheaper and cleaner food source, btu man they love the beefheart. Trying to go 2 meals black, 2 meals beef, eventually will work it down to 203 days black, and select single meals of beef. Also get some hikari discus micro pellets. The blackworms and beefheart mix I get from california black worm co.

[Greg5OH]

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb147/PolishSasquatch/fish/11B0C19D-27FA-4C4F-99D9-50B4F463C1B4_zpslpumowlp.jpg (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/PolishSasquatch/media/fish/11B0C19D-27FA-4C4F-99D9-50B4F463C1B4_zpslpumowlp.jpg.html)

here is the aggressive one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbuUoPN6Dhc

[Photojames]

I am with the rest of guys on most of the information. As being fairly new to the discus hobby, I suggest you take in two factors regarding your plans with discus. If you buy smaller discus and want to raise them a bare bottom tank is a must. I repet a must. If you just want to enjoy discus by adults and put them in your planted tank. You pay more short-term, but when you consider the amount of time and expense of water changes you are not gaining anything by raising young over buying adults. You may think that you will be able to get around this as many of us aquarium people think that we can do something that many have tried and failed at. Young discus need to have lots of food and lots of clean water. One requires the other! If you pay less money for adults you will not get the quality of a higher-priced fish also not near the beauty. I have spent more money trying to keep poor quality fish alive that I would have if I had paid the price first. I know you can cut corners with discus, but you need the experience first and experience costs. It sounds to me like you're trying to save money and have a beautiful discus tank. Not to take away from the discus hobby but, I would suggest you put angelfish in you're planted tank. They are still beautiful but require less expense and maintenance. Just a thought.