little cridders in eggs???

[MadMatt]

I noticed little white cridders flying in and out of my Discus eggs, they almost look like little pieces of salt. They move in and out of the eggs pretty quickly.
Anyone ever heard or seen this?

Tank parameters:
55g bare bottom
6 Discus all adults (2 paired and I covered to eggs to verify a successful pair, on the second day I seen the white salt moving)
Aquaclear110
Temp 82
Tds125
Ph8.1
WC's 80% daily, vacuumed & interior wiped daily
Tank has been set up for months, this has been my regiment for over 60 days.

[Kyla]

there are all sorts of little critters than live, often undetected, in our aquariums. check out this link for a description of a few of them. i wouldn't get too worried, as many of them are harmless. i was watching the cyclops in my BB QT the other day, zinging around happily. its a little ecosystem :)

http://www.planetinverts.com/what_is_that_bug_in_my_aquarium.html

[MadMatt]

These guys that I have look like little pieces of salt boucing around, they do seem to being in and out between the eggs, I noticed some Fertilized eggs but then they died, I don't know if these little white bouncing cridders killed the eggs or not.
Who knows, there needs to be a resource page on SD what out lines all of this instead of a turkey like me posting and bugging people.
Embarrassing part is I've done this long enough I should know but I would have better luck finding "dr. Von Braun" then finding a water/Discus expert in my city, that I could actually talk too.
My LFS are a darn embarrassment when it comes to stuff like this, and although SD is great its still just a forum and well, its can be difficult to find someone that knows anything, and even harder for the person on the other end to explain things properly.
Anyways, it appears these little guys won't hurt much of anything and I think my wife is over feeding when I'm not around...lol

[alcastro]

Matt you need to wipe your tanks, those things will kill your eggs, they are in your tank because there is left over food, might also be the reason for low hatch rate.

[MadMatt]

This is in a 55 community tank I use to pair off other new Discus and grow out larger discus, I had a male mature and pair with a pigeon female, this isn't part of my breeding system, so my wife tends to over feed these guys, thus tanks gets vacuumed 3 times a week and 50-75% wc daily, unlike my 6 - 20g breeders are vacuumed multiple times daily, wiped down and 75-100%/daily water changes, my breeding tanks never have this stuff in it, I just wondered what it was because no one really says much about these besides "there harmless", which you believe [much like me] they will actually eat the eggs.
This is good to know, do you know what they are called?


Matt you need to wipe your tanks, those things will kill your eggs, they are in your tank because there is left over food, might also be the reason for low hatch rate.

[alcastro]

I believe is PLanenria i might of spelled it wrong, lots of wipe downs, they wont eat the eggs just kill them they jump around like fleas and turn in to other flat worms later.

[Altum Nut]

Matt...I'm sure it can be frustrating.
My suggestion if you can get a photo or take out any eggs where you see this activity and place under a microscope. This way it can be better identified to narrow who or what is the culprit.

...Ralph

[MadMatt]

Good idea, thanks Ralph.


Matt...I'm sure it can be frustrating.
My suggestion if you can get a photo or take out any eggs where you see this activity and place under a microscope. This way it can be better identified to narrow who or what is the culprit.

...Ralph

[nc0gnet0]

I believe is PLanenria i might of spelled it wrong, lots of wipe downs, they wont eat the eggs just kill them they jump around like fleas and turn in to other flat worms later.

planaria is a worm, what Matt is seeing are copepods. If you have a spare tank, pull the fish, dose with copper at 3x for two days, drain all water, wipe down tank and clean sponges in fresh dechlorinated water. Refill and return fish.......... Problem solved.

[MadMatt]

Thanks Al, I think your right, they are jumping around like flea's. I just vacuumed, and wiped everything down. "She Gone!!!"
It's interesting how the eggs where laid and then these "flea's" all congregated in that corner like a bunch of monkeys around banana's.


I believe is PLanenria i might of spelled it wrong, lots of wipe downs, they wont eat the eggs just kill them they jump around like fleas and turn in to other flat worms later.

[MadMatt]

Thanks Rick.
Copper kills these little guys (copepods)?
I have many tanks so what your suggesting would be easy.
Is this what your suggesting:
"pull the fish (put fish in another tank thats clean, do not treat fish), dose (the old tank still full of old water and copepods) with copper at 3x for two days, drain all water, wipe down tank and clean sponges in fresh dechlorinated water.
Is this correct?


planaria is a worm, what Matt is seeing are copepods. If you have a spare tank, pull the fish, dose with copper at 3x for two days, drain all water, wipe down tank and clean sponges in fresh dechlorinated water. Refill and return fish.......... Problem solved.

[alcastro]

I might of had both at one time and or at the same time, lol

[nc0gnet0]

yes.

In all likelihood a lot of these critters are in your sponge, but when you treat with meth blue it drives them out of the sponge as the blue accumulates there. They are opportunistic little things and in low numbers relatively harmless but can be problematic for young wigglers and eggs. Once the fry are free swimming and eating bbs the tables are turned and the copepods become food.

[nc0gnet0]

I might of had both at one time and or at the same time, lol

Very possible, but two different creatures

[strawberryblonde]

Ok, gotta go off topic for just a sec here to clear up any confusion about what those little worms are.

Matt, this isn't about your copepods, ok? For that problem, follow Rick's advice. =)

It's the Planaria thing. Somehow along the way, and mostly thanks to the internet, Planaria has become the common term for detritus worms. They are NOT the same thing.

Detritus worms (Annelids) come from a different family of worms and are composting worms that can exist in large numbers in gravel and filter materials. They're normal inhabitants in a tank and are only a problem when water quality is low, allowing them to multiply to the point that they can starve a tank of oxygen.

Planaria are flatworms. They are very tiny and they are carnivores. They generally exist in ponds, and can sometimes be brought into our fish tanks with plants, either ones that were grown in ponds or systems already infected with them.

Planaria numbers are usually fairly small in fish tanks and are easy to eradicate using the typical flatworm treatments.

The problem with them being identified as detritus worms is that people who are seeing white wiggly worms all over their tank are told to use things like levamasol to eradicate true detritus worms. People typically only see detritus worms once they have reached the point of clinging to the sides of the tank glass because water quality is so poor that the population has exploded. So you add levamasol to the tank, kill ALL The detritus worms, and in that poor quality, low oxygen content water you've now added a high level of dead, decomposing worms. It's a recipe for wiping out fish in a big hurry.

Lowering populations of detritus worms is as simple as correcting the problems that led to the poor water quality in the first place. Increased water changes, vacuuming or removing gravel, cleaning filters, not overfeeding, etc.

Sorry to hijack your thread Matt, just need to add this info whenever I see someone identifying detritus worms as Planaria.

Back to your copepod problem... =)

[MadMatt]

Thanks Rick.
Copper kills these little guys (copepods)?
I have many tanks so what your suggesting would be easy.
Is this what your suggesting:
"pull the fish (put fish in another tank thats clean, do not treat fish), dose (the old tank still full of old water and copepods) with copper at 3x for two days, drain all water, wipe down tank and clean sponges in fresh dechlorinated water.
Is this correct?

[nc0gnet0]

yes

[Second Hand Pat]

Ok, gotta go off topic for just a sec here to clear up any confusion about what those little worms are.

Matt, this isn't about your copepods, ok? For that problem, follow Rick's advice. =)

It's the Planaria thing. Somehow along the way, and mostly thanks to the internet, Planaria has become the common term for detritus worms. They are NOT the same thing.

Detritus worms (Annelids) come from a different family of worms and are composting worms that can exist in large numbers in gravel and filter materials. They're normal inhabitants in a tank and are only a problem when water quality is low, allowing them to multiply to the point that they can starve a tank of oxygen.

Planaria are flatworms. They are very tiny and they are carnivores. They generally exist in ponds, and can sometimes be brought into our fish tanks with plants, either ones that were grown in ponds or systems already infected with them.

Planaria numbers are usually fairly small in fish tanks and are easy to eradicate using the typical flatworm treatments.

The problem with them being identified as detritus worms is that people who are seeing white wiggly worms all over their tank are told to use things like levamasol to eradicate true detritus worms. People typically only see detritus worms once they have reached the point of clinging to the sides of the tank glass because water quality is so poor that the population has exploded. So you add levamasol to the tank, kill ALL The detritus worms, and in that poor quality, low oxygen content water you've now added a high level of dead, decomposing worms. It's a recipe for wiping out fish in a big hurry.

Lowering populations of detritus worms is as simple as correcting the problems that led to the poor water quality in the first place. Increased water changes, vacuuming or removing gravel, cleaning filters, not overfeeding, etc.

Sorry to hijack your thread Matt, just need to add this info whenever I see someone identifying detritus worms as Planaria.

Back to your copepod problem... =)

That is good information to have Toni :)
Pat

[MadMatt]

Thanks everyone.

[Kyla]

the way u describe them as jumping i would guess they were cyclops, which sort of swim in a jerky motion where they jolt forward, pause, jolt forward, pause, etc

its going to be very difficult to eradicate them completely. every tank ive looked closely at has contained all sorts of critters, even after using copper and clout in my QT several months ago there were still cyclops present.

i like my water bugs lol

hydra and large planaria are the only ones i'd ever consider removal of, and only if their populations got out of control or if i felt the hydra were a danger to my fry. but personally i've never felt the need to remove either of them.

are u guys sure copepods will attack viable fish eggs? i just cant imagine them going after eggs unless they were already compromised, especially with the parents present. my tanks have cyclops and i have a pretty good hatch rate...

but im always open to learning new things. anyone have any links?

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum/showthread.php/34333-Bugs-you-might-encounter-in-your-aquarium

[Kyla]

well i have found a couple references to them attacking tiny fry, and discus fry def are tiny. learn something new every day!!

but i still <3 my vicious cyclops ;)

http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/worms.htm