46LS and 46LSxGreen Alenquer

[mee]

I am fortunate to live close to one of the best breeders in Japan Sadaki Hachiya. Originally I acquired a group of 6 of his HFSB Watley's as juveniles and ended up with a few fry which are reaching maturity. This last year I also picked up several more fish from him. Two were from one of his top lines called 46Ls (leopard Skin). They were the last two of a spawn and I knew they would not be the best lookers, but I was after the genes, not show fish. A third fish was bred from a Female that was half 46Ls and Half Wild Green Alenquer, and a male 46Ls. All three fish were slow growers, but honestly last year was not a great year for my water routine. Since May that has changed, and I am now on a tight regime and they are growing quicker for sure, and coloring up nicely. The two 46Ls don't have the tight LS pattern like his show fish but I like them none the less. Pics aren't the best, but I will try for more soon.

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[Phillydubs]

Very cool! Different looking! I like... Keep the pics and updates coming!

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Mee, what is a wild green Alenquer? A wild green/Alenquer cross? The only wild Alenguers I know are sold as either Red Alenguers or Blue Alenquers.
Pat

[mee]

Hi Pat, I also thought this, and paused a moment and repeated it to him, and he said yes. I will double check when I see him next (maybe tomorrow), as I do from time to time have brain farts. I did search around when I first got it and found just a couple links to others calling fish Wild Green Alenquers. Granted you never know on the internet what is real, but with Sadaki I usually take him at his word. Whatever the fish is, I am still kicking myself for not getting more. I got this one because he said it is almost certainly female, and I wanted it for breeding with my lone Altum Flora Heckel. However some of the others from this brood has some wonderful solid orange trailers which my fish lacks.

Phillydubs I will definitely keep the pics coming.

[mee]

Funny, I was just cleaning my closet (long overdue) and I came across an old notepad. It had the info I scribbled down while talking to Sadaki during one of my visits. I wrote down both leopard Skin, and Leopard Stripe next to 46Ls. This could be my mistake or simply sadaki misspoke. I didn't write down anything about the "Alenquer green X 46Ls, cause this was a good year before he had that spawn. Interestingly I wrote down a Schmit Focke Strain, plus my Watley strain and a couple others. Kinda a cool find, as I suspect it was either my first or second visit with him, and I remember relentlessly asking him about each and every fish pretty much, but clearly didn't write it all down, I think I just wrote the ones that looked best to me, and some that were proven pairs. Anyhow, I will send him a line tonight, if he is open tomorrow I will do my best to make my way out there with a good pen and pad.

[Second Hand Pat]

Mee, thanks for checking in with him :)
Pat

[mee]

Not a problem Pat. Unfortunately I couldn't get out there today. Saturday will be my next chance, but I may put it off till after pay day.

[mee]

Just took in more information about these fish than I can remember from Mr. Sadaki, but luckily it is all saved on me electric noggin thingy. I will be updating and asking the Administrators to let me change the title of this thread soon as I got the names wrong. Will also post pics at the same time (aiming for tomorrow/later today your time). They are not huge fish yet, but they are steadily growing, and getting a bit better shape imho.

[Phillydubs]

Any uodated pics ??

[mee]

They're coming Phillydubs. Today is going to be pretty busy for me until late afternoon, or even mid evening (it's late morning right now), but I will do my best to snap some shots when possible, and add the updated information about these strains.

[mee]

Coffee, water changes, and hopefully photo's before I fall asleep. Tomorrow's my pseudo day off, so if not tonight I have time then!

[mee]

I snapped some shots, but need sleep. Soooooon.

[mee]

OK, here goes my attempt to revise the information on these fish based on what Sadaki Hachiya told me. I realize the info is not 100% complete, and I will do my best next time I talk to him to clarify anything I may have missed or misunderstood during our conversation

The fish I will refer to as the Wild Cross is a WR46xWild Green xWR19Ls. Which means "Red Strain 46 (Madira solid red) x Wild Green (spotted green) x Red Strain 19 (red spot green) Leopard Skin. It seems he doesn't know specifically the Wild Green used, as they were not from his breeding, but from Taiwan (not sure when he got them). The red strains are "South Coast Alenquer"

The other two fish he was not sure, but he said either 46Ls or 19Ls cross. Not sure what the cross refers to, but suspect he just means they are cross themselves of alenquer and cobalt/greens, and will ask him next time.

So simplified the pattern seems to come from a cobalt/green with Alenquer for the base color. His solid version of these are amazing, and high on my list of fish to get.

So after looking over my photo's I was not too happy, but for the time being here are a couple decent shots of the WR46xWild Green xWR19Ls. In the second shot you can see one of the 46Ls or 19Ls crosses. Unfortunately all 3 were not at their best as I moved around some fish the night before, and two large flora heckels were going back and forth between mating behavior and agression towards all. There are also two large Watley males in the tank trying their best to be the boss, but the WR46xWild Green xWR19Ls only backs down to the Heckels, not the watley's despite being smaller. This fish has put on a little more size than the other two and is really fun to watch. I will do my best to get better pics of all three soon, and may very well be moving them to their own tank with a couple of similar sized watley's to try and give them a bit more confidence/color P.S. The second pic is much more true to the color

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[mee]

Doing deep cleaning today, and to my suprise found the original bags these fish came in with Mr Sadaki's hand writing on it. The two he wasn't sure if they were 19Ls, or 46Ls, are indeed 46Ls. Interesting the other bag says 46Ls x Ls cross, which mostly goes with what he told me in our recent conversation, but either I got confused somewhere, or maybe he was thinking of another similar strain. I will probably wait till our next meeting to pester him about it. I have been having a tough week of work and also trying to organize 5 years of clutter at the same time. More pics will definitely come, but please be patient.

[rickztahone]

Very cool Mee. It is nice that you are able to "pester" someone with so much knowledge :)

[mee]

yes it is, I try to limit my pestering though, cause I feel he is too generous sometimes in the typical Japanese matter.

[mee]

OK, So I should be steadily getting more active on this forum again. Keeping it short for now, the 46LsXgreen type fish turned out to be a female and went back to back 4 or 5 spawns in about 2 weeks with a very beautiful male I recently acquired. The final spawn resulted in about 80 fry which are doing well. I put most in a tank and started feeding decapsulated brine shrimp, and about 30 are still with the parents just as an experiment. I assume the father has had experience based on his size and behavior, but know it is the females first spawn since I got her as a juvie, but am really impressed with how well she is doing. The Wattley's I have definitely tend to take more practice to get it right. I will start a new thread for these two and the fry very soon with photos. I am pretty excited, and expecting some very interesting fry as a result of this spawn.

[Phillydubs]

Sounds very cool!

Would love to see some pics!