Parents not darkening up - what gives?

[Fish_Fin-atic]

This particular pair of Altum Flora Turqs, has had several successful batches of fry within this same 20 gallon breeder tank over the last 8 months or so. They are now tending to eggs, and I'm noticing the same thing I did with their last 2 spawns; the fish aren't going dark like they did previously, and they seem to be lacking the aggression they once had towards me cleaning the tank when they had a spawn (especially the male).

The eggs will hatch into wigglers, and when they fall off the PVC, the parents won't even bother picking them up anymore, and they will eventually die, or (I assume) be eaten, as they seem to disappear from the tank floor. I'm stumped - anyone have any ideas for me?

[Second Hand Pat]

Sounds like they need a rest from breeding. Maybe return them to a community setting for a while.
Pat

[rickztahone]

A good sign that they need a break. They have their off cycles. Do you have a community tank you can place them in?

[Fish_Fin-atic]

Hmmm, a vacation away from the kids you say? :) Yup, sounds like an excellent idea. I was going to rest these fish for 3 months or so in the community tank, until last week when I lost a huge batch of their offspring to an airpump malfunction. I am trying to get one more batch out of them before they go out to pasture for a while. Maybe I should just throw in the towel, and give them a break starting right now - some delicious white worms, some FD Black worms, and a bigger tank to stretch their fins in .... they definitely deserve that after all their hard work over the past half year, and it might do them a world of good. Thank you both for the suggestion - my fish thank you too :D

[John_Nicholson]

It is a sign that they are not really that healthy. What are you feeding them?

-john

[Fish_Fin-atic]

It is a sign that they are not really that healthy. What are you feeding them?

-john

Hey John, they get fed well, and have a pretty healthy appetite all the time. I feed my homemade beefheart mix (BH, liver, Halibut, Sockeye, blanched red lettuce, some pureed peas, egg yolks and liquid vitamins) and alternate with Hikari frozen Bloodworms, freeze dried Blackworms, live whiteworms, and the occasional weekly pinch of Tetra color bits.

The pair have been fighting over who gets to fan the eggs - sometimes pretty violent squabbles, so maybe they just need a rest from breeding?

[John_Nicholson]

Not sure. With a good diet I don't normally see this. Nature will probably work it out.

-john

[MadMatt]

These fish have a social order, I have said this many times, they have arguments this each other, sometimes lasts for mins sometimes weeks and a whole range in-between, and possibly longer.
Since they can't speak (and as John likes to say "they have brains the size of pencil lead") I don't think much reasoning goes on.
They do have friendship circles and certain Discus may dislike other Discus for one reason or another.
There is no doubt (IMO) they communicate with each other and having disagreement about something.

[CliffsDiscus]

John is right there is a health problem. The eggs are underdevelope, they have no adhesive gland development. The pair simply will not pay attention to the eggs
they already know. You might have some eggs drop to the floor of the tank, they should form into little clumps of wrigglers those will be the healthy fry. Another way
to tell if the wrigglers are healthy are how active they are compare to slugglish wrigglers, but this take some time for the hobbyist to develope.



Cliff

[Fish_Fin-atic]

John is right there is a health problem. The eggs are underdevelope, they have no adhesive gland development. The pair simply will not pay attention to the eggs
they already know. You might have some eggs drop to the floor of the tank, they should form into little clumps of wrigglers those will be the healthy fry. Another way
to tell if the wrigglers are healthy are how active they are compare to slugglish wrigglers, but this take some time for the hobbyist to develope.



Cliff

Cliff, I don't think there is a "health problem", at least not one I can see. I have extensive experience with aquarium fish of all kinds, and have been keeping/breeding Discus for almost 2 decades now, so I do have a sense of what "active wigglers" look like. I feed these guys really well, and keep their water parameters up with daily wc's . They are very healthy, active fish, and their eggs do not fall off at all. The eggs hatch into wigglers, and when they begin to free swim, some fall to the bottom, and the parents seem to ignore them.

They used to be very vigilant in finding the stray wigglers, and placing them back onto the PVC with their sibblings. Soon, the fry would be feeding off the parents' sides, and everything was fine, but now, they just disappear from the tank, and the parents wait another week or so, and the whole process repeats itself. With the fights the pair has had lately, both parents' faces are scared and battered from them quibbling over who gets to fan/tend to the eggs/wigglers. This is a new phenomenon and has not occurred in any of their previous spawns.
I have to say that it sounds like they really need a break from spawning. This advice seems to be absolutely spot-on, and a good break in the community tank, with some good food and some down time from breeding may be just what the doctor ordered. I think I will do just that, and maybe put them back into a breeding tank in mid to late November and see what happens. Thanks to everyone for their advice :)