Mad

[dj200]

Hello again to all.... I got a pair of discus that lay like crazy but I had a problem with my water, fix that now come other problem. Discus lay 90% egg good and I move the dad put him in new tank as he was pushing the mom from the eggs he do this quiet alot. Egg start to hatch mom start eating like crazy wat to do.
Is that normal for parent to egg wigglers, should I move mom and leave dad with egg next time wat do u all tink. peace out

[Second Hand Pat]

Try removing the mom next time and leave dad with the spawn. Many domestic discus breeders consider the dad the better parent.
Pat

[dj200]

thank you I did not know I think mom was best

[Discuschill]

Try removing the mom next time and leave dad with the spawn. Many domestic discus breeders consider the dad the better parent.
Pat

I think so, too, Pat.

We recently took White Dragon eggs away from parents who repeatedly ate their own. We put the cone in a five gallon in full RO water with a TDS of 30 and doused with methylene blue. After they became free swimming we put them back with very good Penang parents, who initially took care of them immediately. Unfortunately, the Penangs then laid eggs, so that was the end of that!! Has anyone else had any success with foster parenting?? Seriously considering this for perennial egg and wriggler eaters.

Thanks!

-kathy

[dj200]

I save about 20 of the wigglers any info how to care for them? I am going to give it a go and try raising them any info? there r about to go free swimming tomorrow

[Altum Nut]

Researching the many threads here on SD have guided many new hobbyist but at this point I can offer little advise to move you along.
- Is the male back in and female out?
- Once fry are free swimming they will tend to get attracted to dark shadows within the tank which is why parents turn dark so fry get the start they need feeding off parents sides.
- Lowering the water level with assist with fry finding parents.
- Water quality is to be maintained so be careful not sucking up fry.
- They can stay with parents or parent for 3 weeks or longer and after this stage you can start feeding fresh hatched baby brine shrimp which is very easy to do.
- At 4-5 weeks you can introduce solid foods your feeding your adults.
- Again I can't stress enough the importance of water quality and essential minerals required for proper fry development.
- Once fry are eating other foods they can stay in breeder tank without parents or move them in a cycled tank.
- Don't be discouraged if the 20 fry don't make...keep your head up high and start again as some never make it to this stage.

...Ralph

[dj200]

yea male and female back in tank but the wigglers r in a tank in the same tank which parent can see

[Altum Nut]

Just let nature take it's course...
It's possible and very common that parents may not take the time to care for a small batch.

...Ralph

[MadMatt]

They eat them for a hand full of reasons, (deformities that we don't see but they do, young and inexperienced) I had a pair eat them in all stages till they got to their 5th try then it was like a light came on in the fishes coconut or something and now they are all good. I have another pair that just pair and their first spawn was marginally successful and they didn't eat at all, I know it's crazy frustrating when you get over the first hurdle only to find more problems as you go, Pat has helped me a lot. For some reason with my experience I would say the Dads are always better parents and the moms tend to be "Peep peeps" sometimes, this usually ends in lost fry.
I think you might have to try it several times until the pair get the hang of it, I usually let them go at eating whatever for 3-4 times before I start to intervene.
How many times has this happened?



Hello again to all.... I got a pair of discus that lay like crazy but I had a problem with my water, fix that now come other problem. Discus lay 90% egg good and I move the dad put him in new tank as he was pushing the mom from the eggs he do this quiet alot. Egg start to hatch mom start eating like crazy wat to do.
Is that normal for parent to egg wigglers, should I move mom and leave dad with egg next time wat do u all tink. peace out

[dj200]

Well I just get the water right so I would say first time, they have eat eggs before but that was when the water was not good and most of eggs turn white

[Second Hand Pat]

They eat them for a hand full of reasons, (deformities that we don't see but they do, young and inexperienced) I had a pair eat them in all stages till they got to their 5th try then it was like a light came on in the fishes coconut or something and now they are all good. I have another pair that just pair and their first spawn was marginally successful and they didn't eat at all, I know it's crazy frustrating when you get over the first hurdle only to find more problems as you go, Pat has helped me a lot. For some reason with my experience I would say the Dads are always better parents and the moms tend to be "Peep peeps" sometimes, this usually ends in lost fry.
I think you might have to try it several times until the pair get the hang of it, I usually let them go at eating whatever for 3-4 times before I start to intervene.
How many times has this happened?

Matt, many here will tell you that the parents do not eat their fry due to deformities. That is left to us humans lol.


Well I just get the water right so I would say first time, they have eat eggs before but that was when the water was not good and most of eggs turn white

There are a couple reasons that I know of where the eggs will turn white, one is water (too hard), the male is immature, does not cover the eggs or is infertile. Also diet can play a role in the pair's fertility.

[mmdiscus1]

Dj,

Dont do anything, let them eat all they want- its should all be in the natural course. You can check my thread here, i waited about three month of try and fail with new parents, until they learned not to eat wriglers and eggs)) i am totally happy i waited, thanks to John and all others on SD who have suggested me not to intervene. There was a point where male would frustrate female so much thst she would eat eggs and wriglers, oughhhggg, dont even want to remember those days.

Patience, my friend.

[MadMatt]

This is mostly true and I agree with you, most of the time they don't, but there is a possibility they do.
Anyways, the hardness of the water can play a huge role in this, we only know too well! :)
Not only hardness but some minerals will cause the shell to be ultra hard and the wigglers will die in mid wiggle because they can't break out.
I wonder if this is what's happening here?
Maybe they die in mid wiggle and then the parents eat them?
I'm only speculating, but water chemimistry plays a large role in a successful spawn.
Rick had a great test for this.
When they lay eggs and their done there thing, take the cone out, place in bucket with store bought distiller water, heated and aerated, if you get wigglers and they look good then your water is pooped and you have to do something to it like filter it or use RO or a combination of both.
My water has some type of high mineral content and or problems, took me a long time to figure it out.
Pat, Rick, John, Toni, Liz, Al were instrumental in my success during my trouble shooting process.


Matt, many here will tell you that the parents do not eat their fry due to deformities. That is left to us humans lol.



There are a couple reasons that I know of where the eggs will turn white, one is water (too hard), the male is immature, does not cover the eggs or is infertile. Also diet can play a role in the pair's fertility.

[Len]

This is mostly true and I agree with you, most of the time they don't, but there is a possibility they do.
Anyways, the hardness of the water can play a huge role in this, we only know too well! :)
Not only hardness but some minerals will cause the shell to be ultra hard and the wigglers will die in mid wiggle because they can't break out.
I wonder if this is what's happening here?
Maybe they die in mid wiggle and then the parents eat them?
I'm only speculating, but water chemimistry plays a large role in a successful spawn.
Rick had a great test for this.
When they lay eggs and their done there thing, take the cone out, place in bucket with store bought distiller water, heated and aerated, if you get wigglers and they look good then your water is pooped and you have to do something to it like filter it or use RO or a combination of both.
My water has some type of high mineral content and or problems, took me a long time to figure it out.
Pat, Rick, John, Toni, Liz, Al were instrumental in my success during my trouble shooting process.

If the parents are spawning and then the eggs are hatching, I'd be hard pressed to attribute eating the fry with water hardness.

It may be best to just leave the parents to figure it out on their own. When my wilds started breeding it took half a dozen tries or more before they stopped eating the fry and actually started caring for them. It's frustrating to see it time again, but sometimes the best thing we can do is avoid the temptation of interfering. One thing that did seem to help some was lowring the temperature during that time to about 78F. It seemed to calm the fish somewhat and things went more smootly, but that was the extent of changes I made and it worked out well.

[MadMatt]

I would have to agree with Len that its probably best to let them try a bunch of times.
However, If the hardness of the water is killing them in mid wiggle, (what i mean is what happened to me, my water was causing the shell of the egg to be so hard that the embryo was unable to totally break out of the shell thus dieing in mid hatch). I would suggest this could be possible here and once the embryo dies the parents merely eat the dead ones one by one. however I am only speculating.
So in a sense your correct hardness of the water wouldnt make them eat their spawn, More-over if the hardness was making the shell unhatchable or (partially unhatchable) the parents would eat the dead embryo(s), thus "appearing" they are eating there spawn, when in-fact they are only eating the dead ones.
Again total speculation, but I believe our friend here has had water problems before?

Regardless, I believe Len is correct in letting them try many times and see what happens, (I believe) I would do that same.
:)


If the parents are spawning and then the eggs are hatching, I'd be hard pressed to attribute eating the fry with water hardness.

It may be best to just leave the parents to figure it out on their own. When my wilds started breeding it took half a dozen tries or more before they stopped eating the fry and actually started caring for them. It's frustrating to see it time again, but sometimes the best thing we can do is avoid the temptation of interfering. One thing that did seem to help some was lowring the temperature during that time to about 78F. It seemed to calm the fish somewhat and things went more smootly, but that was the extent of changes I made and it worked out well.

[dj200]

The water if fine as I have about 20 free swimmer which I will try to artificially raise my self so I know water if fine. I will just leave them to it next time and c wat happen. thanks for the input u all put in to help me understand peace out.

[warblad79]

I have the same issue, my would 2 pairs lay eggs and even with the screen cover, the female will force herself to eat the eggs and fry.

[MadMatt]

The water if fine as I have about 20 free swimmer which I will try to artificially raise my self so I know water if fine. I will just leave them to it next time and c wat happen. thanks for the input u all put in to help me understand peace out.
so it appears the water is great!... this is a good thing :)
I even had a male that would suck the eggs thru the screen, still working on wigglers with this boy, everytime they spawn i have to partition the cone off.

keep us posted, very interested to see how many times it takes.
:o

[dj200]

will do

[mmdiscus1]

It happened to my continuously for the course of a few months. All i did was patiently wait, and follow advice of people here.

Ive seen it all- egg eating, wriglers being eaten, parents beating pecking each other, etc.. All i did is wait, and it worked.