My treatment of constipated discus

[FishFanMan]

My blue sapphire discus stopped eating about a month ago. And I've never seen him poop anything so far but his tummy looks like he's had a nice meal. Big WCs haven't helped him so he is now in a 20L hospital tank and I just put 4 tablespoons of Epsom salt in it. Hoping for improvement soon.

90473

[Frankr409]

What exactly are you feeding? If the first several ingredients have the the word "meal" in it, go look for New Life Spectrum.

[FishFanMan]

Oh believe me, he gets to eat like the kings that they are.

90474

[Frankr409]

The flake looks like this for the first several ingredients: "Salmon Fish Meal, Dried Yeast, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Wheat Flour"
The NLS looks like this for the first several ingredients: "Whole Antarctic Krill, Whole Fish, Whole Wheat Flour, Ulva Seaweed"

If it were me, I would stop feeding the Flake for a while, maybe 2 weeks, and see if the problem persists.

[DISCUS STU]

You may want to post this to the "Disease" section. IME Blue Diamonds have a tendency to intestinal issues. Hope it works out with the Epsom salts, that's the easiest way.

When it hasn't I've treated with Kanamycin (internal infections) and Metro at higher temps, again IME.

Do your fish eat the New Life stuff? Mine mostly ignore it, including their expensive Discus food.

[bluelagoon]

The flake looks like this for the first several ingredients: "Salmon Fish Meal, Dried Yeast, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Wheat Flour"
The NLS looks like this for the first several ingredients: "Whole Antarctic Krill, Whole Fish, Whole Wheat Flour, Ulva Seaweed"

If it were me, I would stop feeding the Flake for a while, maybe 2 weeks, and see if the problem persists.
Salmon fish meal was whole before it was turned into meal.Goes for whole antarctic krill;most is turned into meal (powder) right at sea on factory freezer trawlers.

[Frankr409]

[QUOTE=bluelagoon;1175056]
In theory a McRib also once came from a whole animal (I think), I wouldn't eat that either.

Below is a good read from a company that knows how to make quality fish food. It explains more than I would ever care to try about the quality of fish meal, binders, etc and the relationship to bloat.

I think STU has the right idea about the medical section, a month of not eating isn't right.

http://nlsfishfood.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=29&Itemid=63&limit=1&limitstart=3

[DISCUS STU]

If it's bloat and not constipation, and it may well be, I've had the most success with Maracyn 2, Omoxycycline (sic). Now available once again from Fritz.

[FishFanMan]

How long should I do the salt tx before trying something else?

[DISCUS STU]

I'd give it two days.

[DISCUS STU]

If it's bloat and not constipation, and it may well be, I've had the most success with Maracyn 2, Omoxycycline (sic). Now available once again from Fritz.

Correction, Minocycline, not Omoxycycline. Does the trick for bloat.

[MendoMan]

The flake looks like this for the first several ingredients: "Salmon Fish Meal, Dried Yeast, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Wheat Flour"
The NLS looks like this for the first several ingredients: "Whole Antarctic Krill, Whole Fish, Whole Wheat Flour, Ulva Seaweed"

If it were me, I would stop feeding the Flake for a while, maybe 2 weeks, and see if the problem persists.

It's all in how they word it. Their fish and krill had to be ground into a fine meal before it could be formed into pellets.

[FishFanMan]

No change after one day of tx. Will do a WC now and redose to equal the tds reading from the first dose. I dont think its bloat though. The scales are not puffed out. He just looks like he just a big meal. Should I increase the temp? Would that do something? Temp is currently between 83 and 84.

[Second Hand Pat]

No change after one day of tx. Will do a WC now and redose to equal the tds reading from the first dose. I dont think its bloat though. The scales are not puffed out. He just looks like he just a big meal. Should I increase the temp? Would that do something? Temp is currently between 83 and 84.

If it is a bacterial infection raising the temp could kill the fish.

[FishFanMan]

Forgot to mention he still refusing FDBW. Also Stu, my discus have never liked NLS pellets. They dont really like the flakes either. I feed them these couple times a week but I vacuum a lot of that out. They go wild on FDBWs! Interestingly, I have seen them nibbling on some algae I have in my tank and am trying to figure out how to supplement FDBW with some greens.

[FishFanMan]

Thanks Pat, I'll keep the temp stable. WC done. Though I have 3 little filters on this tank I have a mini cycle going on. It only had one Bolivian ram so not enough BB for a much bigger fish. Before WC, ammonia was a bit less than 0.25ppm, looked like nitrite was 0 and nitrate was between 0 and 5ppm. TDS before WC was 384, after plus redose is 409; tap is 177.

The guy handled the WC fine, I guess he's used to it even in a strange tank. Hoping fore the best, preparing for the worst. Gonna see who carries maracyn 2 locally. I have metro and prazipro. Anyone have opinion on which to try first? Should I give him some clean water before trying meds? Stu, I know you said try maracyn 2 but he doesn't look bloated. He isn't pooping anything either.

90523

[FishFanMan]

After 2 full days, there's no improvement and still not eating his favorite FDBW. Since it looks to be a digestive issue, I'm going with metro dosing using my new Seachem metro I bought recently. It says dose for up to 3 weeks, so that's what I'm going to do. Hope this guy can last 2 months without eating if this doesn't work. I will post again if things change.

[rickztahone]

After 2 full days, there's no improvement and still not eating his favorite FDBW. Since it looks to be a digestive issue, I'm going with metro dosing using my new Seachem metro I bought recently. It says dose for up to 3 weeks, so that's what I'm going to do. Hope this guy can last 2 months without eating if this doesn't work. I will post again if things change.

Metro should be given for 10 straight days. 2 treatments a day w/ water change in the middle of the day. Discus can go quite a while without food. In excess of a month.

[DISCUS STU]

Forgot to mention he still refusing FDBW. Also Stu, my discus have never liked NLS pellets. They dont really like the flakes either. I feed them these couple times a week but I vacuum a lot of that out. They go wild on FDBWs! Interestingly, I have seen them nibbling on some algae I have in my tank and am trying to figure out how to supplement FDBW with some greens.

Hikari sells a relatively high protein Spirulina Brine Shrimp combo. I used to feed my Discus Spirulina flake, which they liked, but it's relatively low in protein and I don't feed them this anymore. I don't know if they really need a vegetable supplement. They may get what they need from the prepared foods like the Turkey Heart mixture which includes spinach, I use seaweed.
http://www.hikariusa.com/diets/fd-spirulina-brine-shrimp/

Sorry your fish's condition hasn't changed. It appears to be bloat, again the Maracyn 2 works best for me though I'd like to hear what others use. I've tried Kanamycin for this but with little success.

[Lilly]

AZoo makes a Spirulina flake that has great protein... my discus love it! They also love the earth worm flakes.

http://www.azoo-aqua.com/product-info.asp?id=189 great product:)

Hope you guy starts feeling better soon:)

[FishFanMan]

We'll, I've tried so many types of flakes I guess I can try those too. The guy isn't eating still and the belly looks even more swollen today. I'm thinking about stopping metro and starting what Stu suggested for bloat. Or should I put him down now instead of spending time and money trying to get him well? He's in good shape still so it wouldn't surprise me if he lived another 2 to 3 months without eating at all.

[DISCUS STU]

They can go very long periods w/o eating, but the growth at this point may be affected. Other than the investment, the Maracyn 2 couldn't hurt. You may want to rest the fish in between treatments for a day or two. Large daily water changes of at least 50%, if you're not doing that now, are a good idea.

During treatment it may take a few days to see some progress. Unfortunately there's no magic.

[JEP23]

Epsom salt will fix bloating or constipation.. i had a blue turq who would get constipated and bloated and would float to the top of the tank uncontrollably and i put in a good amount of epsom salt and the problem was fixed within a day

[FishFanMan]

Good news! After 11th day of daily double dosing of both metro and prazi he has passed what was blocking is GI track. It's a large piece of crap too. He also produced lots of white stringy poop afterwards I guess and best all he doesn't look bloated anymore.

Here are some pics.

[FishFanMan]

And I just finished an insane amount of WCs like 5 WCs each 75% to bring down the unimaginable bacterial load that was in there and in my filters. I redosed after that. I will see if he has an appetite tomorrow morning. If he does I'm going to soak FDBW in metro concentrate and feed it. Once normal poop shows up, I'll stop all treatments. Is this a decent plan?

[JEP23]

next time use epsom salt.. Those Meds did nothing to help him, he probably just got rid of it on his own.. Epsom salts are a natual laxative


Also alot of people confuse white poo on discus for shedding of the intenstines.. . Discus shed their intenstinals tract

[FishFanMan]

I see, what dosing of epsom salt has worked for you and typically how long did it take for you?

[jmf3460]

next time use epsom salt.. Those Meds did nothing to help him, he probably just got rid of it on his own.. Epsom salts are a natual laxative


Also alot of people confuse white poo on discus for shedding of the intenstines.. . Discus shed their intenstinals tract

he did try Epsom salt, the original post of this thread explains that he tried Epsom salt originally and when it didn't work he needed other options. OP I am happy that you think he is doing better, the large water changes can only make things even better from this point on.

[DISCUS STU]

Glad to hear it's doing better and hope it starts eating soon, it probably will shortly.

The Blue Diamonds are more prone to this type of intestinal blockage than other strains. I've lost at least one to extreme constipation. When one of my Blue Diamonds passes food it generally looks the way it does in your picture. They seem to need higher quality food than some of my other Discus. I think it happens more when they pig out on lower grade flake food, IME.

Here's a female that I brought back from the brink in similar circumstances. 90887

[FishFanMan]

Thanks Stu, that's a gorgeous discus. Hope mine grows to be like that. Mine is not eating still and he passed another big brown poo today so that's a good sign I guess. I might try raising the temp up a bit and also dipping the FDBW in fresh garlic juice.

[FishFanMan]

After 19 days of daily dosing of metro, he still does not eat. He doesn't even try to eat FDBW. He will pickup FDBW soaked in garlic juice but after a few chews he spits it out. So my plan is to give his a few days of clean water and then start a round of either maracyn 2 or kanaplex. If that fails, he's going into the freezer. Must move on.

[krislewis3]

How long should I do the salt tx before trying something else?


I had great success with 10 days of 1tbs. Epsom salt for each 10 gallons! I was hesitant to do this so long, until it was advised by a reputable breeder here on sd!

[Second Hand Pat]

After 19 days of daily dosing of metro, he still does not eat. He doesn't even try to eat FDBW. He will pickup FDBW soaked in garlic juice but after a few chews he spits it out. So my plan is to give his a few days of clean water and then start a round of either maracyn 2 or kanaplex. If that fails, he's going into the freezer. Must move on.

You need to allow the fish to rest after medication and give it a chance to resume eating.
Pat

[Eddie]

You need to allow the fish to rest after medication and give it a chance to resume eating.
Pat

This

And 19 days is LONG

[FishFanMan]

It does seem like a long time but Seachem says dose up to 3 weeks as you can see. Ok, so I will give him 2 weeks of fresh water via 75% daily WCs now that I've stopped all meds. If that fails, I'll do 10 days of Epsom salt, then try maracyn 2 or kanaplex as a final treatment regimen. I think that's all I can muster to help this guy recover. Will keep you posted. Thanks.

91081

[Eddie]

Seems like your set on medicating. The best way to treat a discus is to never have to. Unless there is an emergency, medications should be a last resort. Medicating can do more harm than good in some cases.

People have had fish go months without eating and the fish do just fine. Do you have a picture of the fish.

[FishFanMan]

His tummy is still a bit bloated, no other external issues that I can see. Here is a picture I just took of him. He has not produced any kind of poop for the last 3 to 4 days. He has not eaten for about 2 months.



91101

[Eddie]

Yeah, that looks a bit different than constipation.

If you try kanamycin, better to skip kanaplex. It's not close to enough for proper treatment and you'll need a bunch. Order from Jehmco or AngelsPlus.

[FishFanMan]

Good news is that he's starting to eat FDblood worms but has not pooped at all and he has a really big belly. So I've initiated 2 tbsp per 10 gal of Epsom salt to see if it will help him poop.

[FishFanMan]

Eddie, you said that looks different than constipation. Why do you say that? What does it look like? To me it's like his GI system has stopped working, no BM you know.

[FishFanMan]

Just wanted post my last update on this discus. After another 10 days of epsom salt and about 5 days of feeding him FDBWs soaked in metro water, he is back to eating really good. His tummy still looks a bit swollen but he's eating well. So he is back in the main tank and has been doing well for the last couple days. Can't say exactly what got him eating again but I threw everything at this guy. It took 3 months but he seems good now, a bit thin but still feisty with his old pals so that's great. Oh here comes more kids, gotta go!