New 180gl project - advice needed

[dghby]

Hi all, I am in the process of purchasing a 180gl with stand. I will be combining both of my 75gl Discus tanks into the 180 and selling off my 75's.
Yes, they are 2 different groups ( Asian and German) both groups are very healthy and have been in my house for a couple years, at different times
I have had them with each other, most are German and I have about 5 Asians (16 all together) currently I have the 5 Asians with 3 of my Germans and have been together for about a year.
I grew them all out separately and mixed them slowly to watch for any issues. not saying I won't have any issues but I feel pretty good about preparing for this.

So, back to the new tank. my current opinion is to go with a peninsula type of setup as I feel I have plenty of room for it.
I plan on attaching a 55gl sump to this and have it in the stand. Most of the equipment will be in the sump including a UV sterilizer. ( recommendation on a good one would be welcome)

here is where I need some advice. I will be using an External overflow, no drilling. because of it being a peninsula type setup I will need to put
the overflow and return lines on the short side of the tank that will be against the wall. I will drill holes through the stand for the lines to feed to the sump than the rest of the plumbing will be inside the stand.

here's my question, can I keep both return lines against the wall side of the tank or will I need to run piping for one of them across the top edge of tank so that I have a return line on both sides of the 6ft tank.

hopefully you understand what I am trying to say.

thanks in advance for the help, all suggestions welcome.

Tom

[rickztahone]

The last bit is a bit confusing, but I think I may know what you are saying. If you are still in the process of purchasing the tank, may I suggest simply asking them to drill it for you when purchasing? I will tell you right now, a HOB overflow has a more likely possibility of failing. This isn't to say they aren't good, but many use them because they either do not want to drill the current tank they have, or do not want to deal with the added hassle of plumbing, which I can tell you isn't as bad as many may think.

If at all possibly, check out my overflow build thread, maybe that may give you some ideas. If you are set on the HOB overflow, contact Roland (Farebox (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/member.php?21229-farebox)). He has one that he recommends with enthusiasm.

Also, as far as the return lines through the stand, do you mean to say the stand will be longer than the tank itself and will have available space to drill through and go down to the sump? Do you plan on having a canopy? If so, you can hide the return line along the inside of the canopy with pvc piping. Long runs of pvc pipe to reduce flow significantly however, so keep this in mind. Do you have a filtration setup diagram in mind yet?

[dghby]

Hi Rick, yeah pretty set on an external overflow. been using one with my saltwater for a while and I feel comfortable. of course nothing is full proof.

return lines through the stand, lets go a different route, if I was using the traditional method of the plumbing on the back side of the tank, then all the pvc would run down the back side and into the back of the stand (which is open) because of the peninsula style, the plumbing will have to go down the side of the tank and stand, so I will have no opening for the piping to enter to the sump.

Canopy?? that would definitely be an option to consider. so I take it I definitely want to have a return line on both ends of the 6foot tank?

I haven't yet drawn the sump Diagram out but have a pretty good idea. probably 3 chambers and nothing fancy, I plan on making some shelves for media to sit on.

[rickztahone]

Hi Rick, yeah pretty set on an external overflow. been using one with my saltwater for a while and I feel comfortable. of course nothing is full proof.

return lines through the stand, lets go a different route, if I was using the traditional method of the plumbing on the back side of the tank, then all the pvc would run down the back side and into the back of the stand (which is open) because of the peninsula style, the plumbing will have to go down the side of the tank and stand, so I will have no opening for the piping to enter to the sump.

Canopy?? that would definitely be an option to consider. so I take it I definitely want to have a return line on both ends of the 6foot tank?

I haven't yet drawn the sump Diagram out but have a pretty good idea. probably 3 chambers and nothing fancy, I plan on making some shelves for media to sit on.

If you feel comfortable with that overflow, then use what you know.

I understand the concept of the peninsula tank, my question was whether or not you were going to extend the stand so that the bottom of the tank protrudes just a little more than the tank itself. In this fashion, you can simply drill the stand and route the hoses and equipment through there. This of course would mean you'd have to have some kind of side cover swing doors fabricated of some kind for aesthetics. I wouldn't say you DEFINITELY need to have a return line on the other side. If you have a strong enough pump, then your return line should definitely be able to reach the far side of the tank. You should be aiming to have the return line aiming slight up towards the surface to break surface tension.

I have a 3 chamber sump currently and love it. I DIY'd a 40g breeder and it allows for a whole lot of media.

[DJW]

Using larger pipe reduces line loss. So for example if you have 500 GPH running through an additional 6 feet of pipe, the head loss in feet is as follows:

1/2" pipe: 9 feet of head loss
3/4" pipe: 3 feet of head loss
1" pipe : 1.25 feet of head loss

If you used 1/2" pipe it would be as if your sump was 9 feet lower, which would really slow down most pumps. And then you wouldn't get 500 GPH and need to recalculate...

Also, you are referring to multiple return lines. I assume there is only one.

[dghby]

that was really my biggest concern here, so with the proper return pump I can get proper flow and still keep the return lines short and against the wall. I like that.

[dghby]

Using larger pipe reduces line loss. So for example if you have 500 GPH running through an additional 6 feet of pipe, the head loss in feet is as follows:

1/2" pipe: 9 feet of head loss
3/4" pipe: 3 feet of head loss
1" pipe : 1.25 feet of head loss

If you used 1/2" pipe it would be as if your sump was 9 feet lower, which would really slow down most pumps. And then you wouldn't get 500 GPH and need to recalculate...

Also, you are referring to multiple return lines. I assume there is only one.
my plan has always been using 1 inch pipe, maybe down to 3/4 right when the return goes into the DT. I am aware that the return would be one line coming off the Pump, but I would think in most cases for a tank this size and larger you would split into 2 lines to return on both sides of the tank. I do this for my SW setup with no issues in flow.

[rickztahone]

my plan has always been using 1 inch pipe, maybe down to 3/4 right when the return goes into the DT. I am aware that the return would be one line coming off the Pump, but I would think in most cases for a tank this size and larger you would split into 2 lines to return on both sides of the tank. I do this for my SW setup with no issues in flow.

The truth is, it does impact flow, it has to. However, splitting the line may be a means to supply flow to an area that otherwise would not have any. I know it isn't a fair comparison, but my 75g tank (4ft) has a spray bar on the right side. It shoots way across to the other side and flows through the tank well. I would imagine, with a much stronger pump, this could be achieved on your 6ft tank as well. If you haven't seen my thread on the build, check it out. It is in my signature.

[dghby]

The truth is, it does impact flow, it has to. However, splitting the line may be a means to supply flow to an area that otherwise would not have any. I know it isn't a fair comparison, but my 75g tank (4ft) has a spray bar on the right side. It shoots way across to the other side and flows through the tank well. I would imagine, with a much stronger pump, this could be achieved on your 6ft tank as well. If you haven't seen my thread on the build, check it out. It is in my signature.

I have checked your build out Ricardo and will definitely be going back to it often. thanks for the detailed layout. I really love some of the links you offered up as well.

and could I not solve the flow problem by maybe adding a couple loc line links to extend on side out.
OR, does it make better sense to just have one return coming in and have a powerhead at the other side to push the water back or would that be to much flow for the Discus.

[farebox]

If you don't drill your tank, then I highly recommend The Lifereef overflow filter system. The Lifereef Prefilter Siphon Box is an original, unchanged for 26 years. Designed in 1988 (long before any current reef company) to be a safe and reliable method to transfer water from the aquarium to the sump, or wet/dry as it was back then. If it wasn't for the prefilter box being a safe component many hobbyists would not have even set up an aquarium because the reef-ready aquariums were still years away. A safe and reliable hang-on prefilter box was the only thing you could use, and a SAFE AND RELIABLE DESIGN WAS PARAMOUNT!

The Lifereef Prefilter Siphon Box uses a single siphon tube (Double prefilters use two) and the benefit of this is that the water velocity through the siphon tube vs a large siphon wall is much faster so no air bubbles get caught and no cheap going-to-fail air-lifter pump is needed. So you say just increase the pump output to make the water move faster. Won't work. The siphon wall is so large in area compared to a siphon tube that you can never move the water fast enough to keep the air bubbles moving through.

FEATURES OF ALL THE LIFEREEF PREFILTER SIPHON BOX DESIGNS:

THICKER AND STRONGER ACRYLIC
STRONG ONE-PIECE BENT "BACKBONE" DESIGN INSTEAD OF GLUED PIECES
BONDED OUTPUT FITTING WITH A HOSEBARB CONNECTION OR OPTIONAL VACUUM HOSE CONNECTOR
TRUE MAXIMUM WATER FLOW VELOCITY OR GPH
REMOVABLE SIPHON TUBE THAT CAN BE CLEANED, SIPHON WALL PREFILTERS ARE IMPOSSIBLE TO CLEAN AND IF IT IS BLACK ACRYLIC THAT IS DANGEROUS BECAUSE ALGAE WILL STILL GROW IN THERE.
INNER BOX ADJUSTABLE UP/DOWN AND LOCKED INTO A VERTICAL POSITION SO IT CANNOT BE KNOCKED SIDEWAYS
MANY MORE SLOTS/TEETH MEANING LESS WATER NEEDED FROM SUMP TO MAINTAIN FLOW RATE AND LESS DRAINDOWN WHEN POWER GOES OUT OR IS SHUT OFF.
REINFORCED WHERE STRESS IS THE GREATEST
VERTICAL ALIGNMENT TAB/SCREW SO BOX CAN BE ADJUSTED PARALLEL WITH THE AQUARIUM
INNER BOX CAN BE ADJUSTED UP/DOWN INDEPENDENT OF THE OUTER BOX WITHOUT HAVING TO RAISE THE ENTIRE PREFILTER AS IN "TUBELESS" DESIGNS
SIPHON TUBE WILL NOT LOSE WATER WHEN POWER GOES OUT
CLEAR SIPHON TUBE FOR VISUAL SAFETY. SMOKE OR BLACK WILL STILL GROW ALGAE AND BLOCK FLOW.
SIPHON WILL RESUME WATER FLOW WHEN POWER COMES BACK ON
DOES NOT RELY ON ANOTHER CHEAP PRODUCT FOR SAFE OPERATION
OPTIONAL SILENCER AVAILABLE FOR PREFILTERS THAT MAY EXHIBIT NOISE. DEPENDING ON FLOW RATE, AQUARIUM SURFACE AREA, AND HOSE ROUTING, ALL HAVE AN EFFECT ON HOW MUCH IF ANY NOISE IS PRESENT.
ALL CORNERS AND EDGES RADIUSED TO PREVENT FISH DAMAGE, FLAME-POLISHING (AS OTHERS) LEAVES SHARP EDGES
CUSTOM SIZES CAN BE MADE FOR WIDE RIMS. LARGEST TO DATE WAS FOR AN AQUARIUM WITH A 12" RIM SPAN.
CUSTOM DEPTHS CAN BE MADE FOR AQUARIUMS WHERE THE WATER LEVEL IS MANY INCHES BELOW THE RIM
MADE FOR EURO-BRACE RIMS, RED SEA MAX AQUARIUMS, BIO-CUBE AQUARIUMS, ANY AQUARIUM CAN USE A LIFEREEF PREFILTER BOX
INNER BOX COLOR CHOICES OF CLEAR, BLACK, OR BLUE

It is the cheap copies and "tubeless" designs that have given all the good prefilter boxes a bad reputation. The Lifereef Prefilter Siphon Box is the original and only safely designed prefilter still being made today!

If you get any other prefilter box, make sure you get a wet-vac as part of your aquarium maintenance equipment, it will be needed eventually, some sooner than others......

Had my up and running since 8/29/14, turn return pump off 3xdaily for feedings. No problem as of yet re-starting! Contact Jeff, Lifereef.com.

[rickztahone]

I have checked your build out Ricardo and will definitely be going back to it often. thanks for the detailed layout. I really love some of the links you offered up as well.

and could I not solve the flow problem by maybe adding a couple loc line links to extend on side out.
OR, does it make better sense to just have one return coming in and have a powerhead at the other side to push the water back or would that be to much flow for the Discus.

I will be perfectly honest, I think you can definitely do it with one pump only blowing across the top section of your tank. However, and this is a big however, how many gph is your overflow rated at? I only ask because the type of pump I am talking about would have to be in the 900-1200gph by my estimate. Mine is currently rated close to 700 plus a mod that put it closer to 720-750gph and my flow while decent, definitely isn't overpowering. It serves me well, but on a 6ft wide tank, remeber that it has to go through the top section, hit the opposite glass, and make its way back at a good speed. If you go with canopy, it makes this a lot easier as you can run the pvc tucked in the inside of the canopy as I mentioned prior. Lastly, have you discussed this with the people you are purchasing your tank from? They may also have some input on dealing with this seeing as it is a peninsula tank they are selling you they may face this dilemma often.

[dghby]

I will be perfectly honest, I think you can definitely do it with one pump only blowing across the top section of your tank. However, and this is a big however, how many gph is your overflow rated at? I only ask because the type of pump I am talking about would have to be in the 900-1200gph by my estimate. Mine is currently rated close to 700 plus a mod that put it closer to 720-750gph and my flow while decent, definitely isn't overpowering. It serves me well, but on a 6ft wide tank, remeber that it has to go through the top section, hit the opposite glass, and make its way back at a good speed. If you go with canopy, it makes this a lot easier as you can run the pvc tucked in the inside of the canopy as I mentioned prior. Lastly, have you discussed this with the people you are purchasing your tank from? They may also have some input on dealing with this seeing as it is a peninsula tank they are selling you they may face this dilemma often.
Ricardo, this is not a new tank, its used so it is not necessarily a peninsula, I just want to set it up that way. definitely highly considering the canopy.

[dghby]

If you don't drill your tank, then I highly recommend The Lifereef overflow filter system. The Lifereef Prefilter Siphon Box is an original, unchanged for 26 years. Designed in 1988 (long before any current reef company) to be a safe and reliable method to transfer water from the aquarium to the sump, or wet/dry as it was back then. If it wasn't for the prefilter box being a safe component many hobbyists would not have even set up an aquarium because the reef-ready aquariums were still years away. A safe and reliable hang-on prefilter box was the only thing you could use, and a SAFE AND RELIABLE DESIGN WAS PARAMOUNT!

The Lifereef Prefilter Siphon Box uses a single siphon tube (Double prefilters use two) and the benefit of this is that the water velocity through the siphon tube vs a large siphon wall is much faster so no air bubbles get caught and no cheap going-to-fail air-lifter pump is needed. So you say just increase the pump output to make the water move faster. Won't work. The siphon wall is so large in area compared to a siphon tube that you can never move the water fast enough to keep the air bubbles moving through.

FEATURES OF ALL THE LIFEREEF PREFILTER SIPHON BOX DESIGNS:

THICKER AND STRONGER ACRYLIC
STRONG ONE-PIECE BENT "BACKBONE" DESIGN INSTEAD OF GLUED PIECES
BONDED OUTPUT FITTING WITH A HOSEBARB CONNECTION OR OPTIONAL VACUUM HOSE CONNECTOR
TRUE MAXIMUM WATER FLOW VELOCITY OR GPH
REMOVABLE SIPHON TUBE THAT CAN BE CLEANED, SIPHON WALL PREFILTERS ARE IMPOSSIBLE TO CLEAN AND IF IT IS BLACK ACRYLIC THAT IS DANGEROUS BECAUSE ALGAE WILL STILL GROW IN THERE.
INNER BOX ADJUSTABLE UP/DOWN AND LOCKED INTO A VERTICAL POSITION SO IT CANNOT BE KNOCKED SIDEWAYS
MANY MORE SLOTS/TEETH MEANING LESS WATER NEEDED FROM SUMP TO MAINTAIN FLOW RATE AND LESS DRAINDOWN WHEN POWER GOES OUT OR IS SHUT OFF.
REINFORCED WHERE STRESS IS THE GREATEST
VERTICAL ALIGNMENT TAB/SCREW SO BOX CAN BE ADJUSTED PARALLEL WITH THE AQUARIUM
INNER BOX CAN BE ADJUSTED UP/DOWN INDEPENDENT OF THE OUTER BOX WITHOUT HAVING TO RAISE THE ENTIRE PREFILTER AS IN "TUBELESS" DESIGNS
SIPHON TUBE WILL NOT LOSE WATER WHEN POWER GOES OUT
CLEAR SIPHON TUBE FOR VISUAL SAFETY. SMOKE OR BLACK WILL STILL GROW ALGAE AND BLOCK FLOW.
SIPHON WILL RESUME WATER FLOW WHEN POWER COMES BACK ON
DOES NOT RELY ON ANOTHER CHEAP PRODUCT FOR SAFE OPERATION
OPTIONAL SILENCER AVAILABLE FOR PREFILTERS THAT MAY EXHIBIT NOISE. DEPENDING ON FLOW RATE, AQUARIUM SURFACE AREA, AND HOSE ROUTING, ALL HAVE AN EFFECT ON HOW MUCH IF ANY NOISE IS PRESENT.
ALL CORNERS AND EDGES RADIUSED TO PREVENT FISH DAMAGE, FLAME-POLISHING (AS OTHERS) LEAVES SHARP EDGES
CUSTOM SIZES CAN BE MADE FOR WIDE RIMS. LARGEST TO DATE WAS FOR AN AQUARIUM WITH A 12" RIM SPAN.
CUSTOM DEPTHS CAN BE MADE FOR AQUARIUMS WHERE THE WATER LEVEL IS MANY INCHES BELOW THE RIM
MADE FOR EURO-BRACE RIMS, RED SEA MAX AQUARIUMS, BIO-CUBE AQUARIUMS, ANY AQUARIUM CAN USE A LIFEREEF PREFILTER BOX
INNER BOX COLOR CHOICES OF CLEAR, BLACK, OR BLUE

It is the cheap copies and "tubeless" designs that have given all the good prefilter boxes a bad reputation. The Lifereef Prefilter Siphon Box is the original and only safely designed prefilter still being made today!

If you get any other prefilter box, make sure you get a wet-vac as part of your aquarium maintenance equipment, it will be needed eventually, some sooner than others......

Had my up and running since 8/29/14, turn return pump off 3xdaily for feedings. No problem as of yet re-starting! Contact Jeff, Lifereef.com.

Will definitely look into this, thanks Firefox

[DJW]

I second what farebox says about the overflow, its really important that the siphon portion have rapid flow. I learned this the hard way after ruining a new hardwood floor in the dining room. I have always wanted a fish room with a nice drain in the floor.

[rickztahone]

I second what farebox says about the overflow, its really important that the siphon portion have rapid flow. I learned this the hard way after ruining a new hardwood floor in the dining room. I have always wanted a fish room with a nice drain in the floor.

If you dream it, it CAN be done :)