Filter questions...

[Jeffress77]

Hello all...

I was in the hobby a few years back, and spent a lot of time and money and did a lot research and kept my discus fairly well (but with many headaches) until I had to move, and the tank went into storage.

I have that setup currently as a saltwater system and I have another 55g sitting, calling my name. I have decided I am going to get back into the Discus game, and a local person here has a 5" and a 6" pair that she is going to part with once I am ready for them. (Strangely enough, this lady only does 50% water changes once per month in a 110g and only regular tropical flakes). Her Discus are big and healthy and beautiful...I kind of shake my head in awe I guess.

Year back I was originally using a Fluval 405 filter and battling with RO and mixing well water and discus buffer and neutral regulator and softening pillows and blah blah blah...
I have since graduated from this crazy idea that I HAD to have pH of 6.8! I wasn't doing anything but killing myself and my fish!

Now fast forward a few years down the road, I think I am going to ditch the pain in the neck canister filters which can really jack up the nitrate/bioload levels, and just use a couple good sized HOB filters, running with only biological filtration media in them, with prefilter sponges as the sole mechanical filtration on the intakes. I plan on doing a weekly 50% water change and will probably either have a very thin sandbed or bare bottom, some driftwood, and artificial plants. K.I.S.S.

I am NOT going to be growing out any discus. I am getting these 5-6" specimens and possibly an additional two 5"+ discus in the near future. That would give me 4 Discus in a 55 gal. I think that they could survive well in there. My softened, well water from the faucet and also my 0 TDS RO/DI water that I use for my salt system holds at right around 8 for a pH reading, which is what these discus were raised in (only in well water from the tap).

Couple questions... Do the old standard ML Penguin bio wheels actually provide good biological filtration? I was going to get a couple of the larger 350 versions and use the bio-wheels along with some ceramic, porous filter media for biological filtration.

What are all you go-to methods for preparing large pieces of driftwood for the tank?

What are all of your go-to methods for fishless cycling?

[Eddie]

Sounds like a decent plan. Here's a good post on how to make your bio wheel filters into some bio filtration powerhouses.


http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?76945-Turbo-Powered-350-Penguin&highlight=Turbo+penguin

[dprais1]

fishless cycle, blah. I just use tetra safe start, do extra waterchanges and feed lightly for the first week or two.

I have heard many issues with the bio wheels. and in truth an aquaclear hob is a great and versatile filter. really any filter will probably be fine,

[Filip]

If i may , i vote for thin sandbed and at least couple of anubias on the driftwood.Please dont go with any plastics. :)
As for fishless cycle,just use whatever comercial cycle product you got there availible on market, pour some flakes and after couple of days start measure nitrates- NO3 .

[Eddie]

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?121442-Filter-questions&p=1177337#post1177337

[Jeffress77]

Right on the money! Thanks!

[Jeffress77]

fishless cycle, blah. I just use tetra safe start, do extra waterchanges and feed lightly for the first week or two.

I have heard many issues with the bio wheels. and in truth an aquaclear hob is a great and versatile filter. really any filter will probably be fine,
Ok, thanks for the tip!

If i may , i vote for thin sandbed and at least couple of anubias on the driftwood.Please dont go with any plastics. :)
As for fishless cycle,just use whatever comercial cycle product you got there availible on market, pour some flakes and after couple of days start measure nitrates- NO3 .
Thanks! I will look into the Anubias. Something I haven't tried yet.

[Jeffress77]

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?121442-Filter-questions&p=1177337#post1177337

Awesome!

[Driftwood Mike]

Hi Eddie,
Read the link you posted earlier about the bio wheel filters, think it was great. Do you remember the thickness of the Poret foam you used? Thanks and good luck again with that great group you have now!
Mike

[Eddie]

Hi Eddie,
Read the link you posted earlier about the bio wheel filters, think it was great. Do you remember the thickness of the Poret foam you used? Thanks and good luck again with that great group you have now!
Mike

I actually had to custom cut it to thickness. I used a bread knife.

[strawberryblonde]

I actually had to custom cut it to thickness. I used a bread knife.

LOL, I had to do the same thing in order to fit Poret foam into my HOB filters! Works like a charm. =)

Jeffress, can I just call you Jeff? I'm old and the shorter the nickname, the easier it is for me when I'm typing... (uh huh, I'm lazy too!)

You said that these discus are big and healthy, and a 6" pair isn't bad, so if you love them, go for it, but, but, but, but... a 5" pair really isn't big. I know you said you've been out of the hobby for a few years, but these days it's super easy to grow out much larger discus. I have females who only reach 6", but the males get much larger, more like 7.5" - 9".

It's not a big deal, but I thought you should know before you buy. The monthly water changes and strictly flake foods might have taken a toll on their growth and their health.

On the other hand, if she's selling them for a decent price then they might be worth a try. Your other option is to check out the sponsors here on the forums. They are all carefully vetted and you can read posts from people who have purchased the discus - and look at pics of the fish they received.

If you decide to do the instant cycling of the tank, be sure to add a teaspoon of non-iodized salt to the tank with the first water change, then replace any lost salt with each subsequent water change (1/2 teaspoon if you do a 50% WC). It will avoid ammonia and/or nitrite poisoning while the tank is cycling.

[DISCUS STU]

My setups use Eheim canisters in circuit with the first in line being a three stage mechanical filtration returning into a second canister full of bio Eheim Substrate Pro, UV's come off of that.

A bit of an investment and I still do 50% water changes every other day or every third day but it works for me.

[DJW]

Stu,

Is the first canister plugged in and the second one like a dummy? And do you take the impeller out of the dummy filter?

[alron2]

Toni,

You said "If you decide to do the instant cycling of the tank, be sure to add a teaspoon of non-iodized salt to the tank with the first water change, then replace any lost salt with each subsequent water change (1/2 teaspoon if you do a 50% WC). It will avoid ammonia and/or nitrite poisoning while the tank is cycling."

Question: 1/2 teaspoon per what? Gallon? 10 gallons? tank?

Thanks
Ron

[strawberryblonde]

Ohhh, he said he has a 55 gallon tank, so that's what I was basing it on. You can actually get away with as little as a 1/4 tsp. salt per 50 gallons, but it's a whole lot easier to measure out a teaspoon and it won't harm the discus since it's a trace amount.

[alron2]

Toni,

Thanks, good information to know.
Ron

[Jeffress77]

Thank you all!

[Jeffress77]

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?121442-Filter-questions&p=1177337#post1177337

Eddie...and anyone else interested - I also found this. Being in the saltwater hobby, I hear about all of those products as well. MarinePure who makes a newer product "bio-filter plates or blocks" has bio-filter slabs specifically designed for the Rite Size C and Rite Size E filters. You can buy the bio-filter stone slab and it slides right into the filter slot. These MarinePure products are HIGHLY regarded in the marine industry...Something to look into.
Here is the link

http://www.cermedia.com/marinepure-products.php

[DISCUS STU]

Stu,

Is the first canister plugged in and the second one like a dummy? And do you take the impeller out of the dummy filter?

They're both active canister filters with fully functioning impellers. Otherwise you'll have pressure building up which can pop the clips. I used to do this with Eheim 2217's feeding into 2215's, one of my setups on the 60 gal. is still this way, but you have to make sure both filters activate at the same time otherwise the clips will burst. This is nothing permanent, except for the water all over the place.

[Jeffress77]

Here are the discus I will be acquiring. Please let me know your thoughts. The second one appears green in the photo, but it is more blue.
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x253/Jeffress77/12009745_1060308793993239_9004511019388269904_n_zp sipbpdxcq.jpg (http://s182.photobucket.com/user/Jeffress77/media/12009745_1060308793993239_9004511019388269904_n_zp sipbpdxcq.jpg.html)
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x253/Jeffress77/12039425_1060308770659908_1452755610881720497_n_zp sbbzanm7m.jpg (http://s182.photobucket.com/user/Jeffress77/media/12039425_1060308770659908_1452755610881720497_n_zp sbbzanm7m.jpg.html)

[Jeffress77]

No comments? good or bad?

[ssevasta]

It looks like a snow leopard and a blue diamond to me. If u really want to go with the KISS strategy I would just go with two of the hydro IV model sponge filters and an air stone or two. That's basically what I'm using and I know a lot of other forum members are running similar setups with great success. I've just heard of a lot of headaches and extra work with the canister filters trapping gunk and leftover food. The sponge filter strategy just seems a lot easier in your situation to me, especially with such a low bio load in your tank. It's also an extremely cost effective and efficient system.

[Jeffress77]

I am not using canisters anymore. I had one a few years ago, but now I have two Emperor 400 HOB filters setup with 3 different types of bio-filtration only. MarinePure, Seachem Matrix, and Eheim Substrat Pro. The only mechanical filtration are the two prefilter sponges on the intake tubes. (thanks Eddie!)

Nothing should create/hold nitrates except the prefilter sponges, and they will be washed each water change.

[Eddie]

No comments? good or bad?

I wouldn't buy them. That's just me. Are they free?

[pitdogg2]

Eddie...and anyone else interested - I also found this. Being in the saltwater hobby, I hear about all of those products as well. MarinePure who makes a newer product "bio-filter plates or blocks" has bio-filter slabs specifically designed for the Rite Size C and Rite Size E filters. You can buy the bio-filter stone slab and it slides right into the filter slot. These MarinePure products are HIGHLY regarded in the marine industry...Something to look into.
Here is the link

http://www.cermedia.com/marinepure-products.php

my question is how solid are these. I ask because years ago something just like this was so fragile that it basically disintegrated from use and touch somewhat. After a year it had become more or less useless because what was once square would now be round.

think potato chip fragile

[Jeffress77]

I wouldn't buy them. That's just me. Are they free?

Well, no they aren't free, but I am only going to pay $35 each for them . What do you see that could be wrong with them? I'm not planning on breeding them, or reselling them. I just want to couple nice fish to enjoy. But, nevertheless, what do you see it could be an issue? I realize the environment that they currently are in looks less than ideal, but I think the fish look healthy myself.

[Jeffress77]

my question is how solid are these. I ask because years ago something just like this was so fragile that it basically disintegrated from use and touch somewhat. After a year it had become more or less useless because what was once square would now be round.

think potato chip fragile

It is not potato chip fragile, but it would break if you dropped it. Whether or not you are using crumbled pieces of this media, or specific shapes, it still does the exact same thing and is still efficient.

[Eddie]

Well, no they aren't free, but I am only going to pay $35 each for them . What do you see that could be wrong with them? I'm not planning on breeding them, or reselling them. I just want to couple nice fish to enjoy. But, nevertheless, what do you see it could be an issue? I realize the environment that they currently are in looks less than ideal, but I think the fish look healthy myself.

You are asking for a straightforward answer. I don't like their shape, especially the blue. Discus are supposed to be round, both are not. They are both behind on growth as can be seen in the eye size to body ratio.

It's not about breeding. It's definitely about what YOU want but those fish are not very good quality.

[Jeffress77]

Ok, thanks for the honest answer! Does anyone else have any input?

[DISCUS STU]

The pictures aren't ideal but at $35 they don't look like such a bad deal. I see ridiculous prices for Discus at lfs's that make thee look decent. I'm not sure what size they are. I don't seem to see the same issues that some of the others see. I don't see the same bad ratio of eye to body size on the Blue Diamond.

[ssevasta]

This might sound cruel but it's better to learn with cheap fish like these while you get back into the hobby. There's nothing worse than spending over a thousand dollars on fish and then losing them because you did something that you shouldn't have. The snow leopard doesn't look too bad but the blue diamond is definitely way behind on growth. That doesn't mean that you wouldn't be able to use them for breeding in the future if you wanted to. It's not the fault of the fish's genetics that its initial owner didn't know how to properly grow it out. I'd love to get a snow leopard that was near adult size and healthy for $35.

[Jeffress77]

Here are a couple videos of them for a better view. Still not the best view, but they are better than a still image. I will have them at my home tomorrow, so I will post pics/videos of them in their new environment.

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x253/Jeffress77/Mobile%20Uploads/th_Video_zpsrmaqp8ew.mp4 (http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x253/Jeffress77/Mobile%20Uploads/Video_zpsrmaqp8ew.mp4)
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x253/Jeffress77/Mobile%20Uploads/th_Video_zpsepgx8yj5.mp4 (http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x253/Jeffress77/Mobile%20Uploads/Video_zpsepgx8yj5.mp4)