Want some advice for keeping discus

[MatthewJanssen]

Hi,

My name is Matthew, I have been keeping fish for 2 years, and had 2 discus in my 350l community tank in the past. I am going to buy some 2-3cm blue turks to have in a 100l tank alone.

Tank info:
Fully Cycled
Size: 80-100l
Filter: Eheim Classic 2217, with seachem purigen 250g, and other media
Type: Planted
Test results;
PH Level: 6.6-6.8
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0
Ammonia: 0

How many water changes would you guys recommend for these young discus? I want them to grow at a fast rate, they will be moving into a 250l when they are a bit larger.

Thanks, Matt.

[warblad79]

They already have a poll like this before , if you go through some of the thread and the results is always the same. The more water change the better especially for juvenile

[Filip]

How many will you keep in 80 l tank?
Six should be minimal number for discus,but this would be too much for 80 l. Plus its planted too.

[Eddie]

None of the above. 100% daily.

[John_Nicholson]

You need an option for 50% or more a day. You will find that most of your highly successful people do that.

-john

[MatthewJanssen]

Hi,

It is 5 discus (Supplier only has 5), I may get a 6th one at some point). they are only 2-3cm long currently. I will move them into a 250l tank when they reach 5-6cm. So, i've decided that 50% daily WC and cleaning out the substrate once a week would be sufficient? Correct me if i'm wrong.

Thanks, Matt.

[John_Nicholson]

You would do better with no substrate at all......

-john

[Filip]

Hi,

It is 5 discus (Supplier only has 5), I may get a 6th one at some point). they are only 2-3cm long currently. I will move them into a 250l tank when they reach 5-6cm. So, i've decided that 50% daily WC and cleaning out the substrate once a week would be sufficient? Correct me if i'm wrong.

Thanks, Matt.

If you can restrain your self from having substrate in such a small growout tank ,you will have much less headaches and problems.
If you must have it then every day siphoning is a must,givven the 5 massive meals you have to feed them for growing them up.

[Disgirl]

I do 80-90% daily, I don't like them flopping on the tank bottom with no water. No substrate at all, maybe a branch with some Anubias attached. Heater, excellent foods and they will grow fast.
Barb

[Eddie]

2-3 cm is super small. If you are just starting out with discus, you should have the least amount of variables working against you. I would highly suggest fish that are at least 5-6 cm.

2 discus in the past is not much experience IMO.

[MatthewJanssen]

Hi,

Sorry, forgot to mention that I kept 12 young 2cm discus int he past also, with a couple deaths at first, but the rest grew well and were sold on. I will keep the plants at the moment, but will change to bare bottom if i see high levels of nitrates, ammonia, or nitrites.

Thanks, Matt.

[Willie]

Young discus WILL NOT grow in a gravel tank. You asked and everyone has told you the same thing. Oh well.

[MatthewJanssen]

Young discus WILL NOT grow in a gravel tank. You asked and everyone has told you the same thing. Oh well.

Can you tell me why the discus will not grow in a gravel tank? In my experience they have grown with gravel in the tank?

[rickztahone]

Can you tell me why the discus will not grow in a gravel tank? In my experience they have grown with gravel in the tank?

You say they have grown discus before in these conditions, but what does the word "grown" mean to you? How large did these discus get?

[MatthewJanssen]

You say they have grown discus before in these conditions, but what does the word "grown" mean to you? How large did these discus get?

They grew at about 1cm per month, I sold them at around 7-8cm.

[MatthewJanssen]

Also, I only fed them 2-3 times per day.

[rickztahone]

They grew at about 1cm per month, I sold them at around 7-8cm.

I currently have a batch of discus that isn't more than 4 months old and they are much larger now than the discus you describe. The word "grown" is a very subjective matter, and I thank you for sharing it with us.

[MatthewJanssen]

No worries,

At that stage, I was obviously not feeding the enough, they grew, but not at a fast rate.

[Filip]

Their full grown potential is almost if not 3 times as 7cm. So from discus enthusiast POV your past discus are considered more than poor grown and stunted.
Although im sure you enjoyed them and they seemed beautifull to you,im sure that if you see in person. 20 or more CM healthy and fat discus batch,you be more than willing to do everything to pursuite and achieve this kind of growth and quallity discus.
So try it the way most people here advise you and i think you wont regret it.

[MatthewJanssen]

They weren't fully grown yet, they will have continued to grow. But I understand that it was a slow growth rate, and may have stunted them.

As for my new discus. I have added them to the tank, and all is well. Got 6.

I am moving them into a 200l tank in 1-2 weeks and will make that tank a barebottom tank. I'm thinking 20% daily w/c should be fine for that small amount of fish in a 200l tank?

Thanks, Matt.

[MatthewJanssen]

At what size would you reccomend I put them in a planted tank? I will put them in a planted tank when it's suitable.

Thanks, Matt.

[Filip]

Its much easier to grow them Barebottom and 200 l. Is much more stable water enviroment to handle than 80 l.So you ve done a good decesion here so far.
If you can up the WCs to at least 50 % daily with through siphoning and glass wipeing you can get them to grow decently.Or try at least to do 2-3 times a week large 80% along With your everyday 20-30% small siphoning Wcs.
The thing that differs discus from all other fish and ussualy confuses allready experienced aquarists is that its not only nitratres in water here to consider, but you need clean ,fresh water to keep bacterial and Parasite levels down and low.
And you cant measure that,so thats why you need as much fresh water as you can change.

[MatthewJanssen]

Its much easier to grow them Barebottom and 200 l. Is much more stable water enviroment to handle than 80 l.So you ve done a good decesion here so far.
If you can up the WCs to at least 50 % daily with through siphoning and glass wipeing you can get them to grow decently.Or try at least to do 2-3 times a week large 80% along With your everyday 20-30% small siphoning Wcs.
The thing that differs discus from all other fish and ussualy confuses allready experienced aquarists is that its not only nitratres in water here to consider, but you need clean ,fresh water to keep bacterial and Parasite levels down and low.
And you cant measure that,so thats why you need as much fresh water as you can change.

Thanks for the info. At what stage could I introduce plants and gravel to the 200l tank?

Thanks, Matt.

[Eddie]

Then what is the purpose of this poll if you know already? Lol

[Filip]

Thanks for the info. At what stage could I introduce plants and gravel to the 200l tank?

Thanks, Matt.

4-5 months from now when they reach 10-12 cm ,and their immune system establishes Its considered safer to intoduce sand and plants.
They will still be young semi adults by then,and will still continiue to grow in following 10-12 months.

[John_Nicholson]

When young they should grow at roughly 1 inch per month....that is 2.54cm. Well above the 1 cm that you saw. While you did not realize it you were stunting the discus. This is the problem that new people run in to. They have never seen what a really healthy discus looks like so they think they are doing a good job when in reality they are not even close. Not a slam of you. You have no way of knowing what you don't know....LOL. The trouble lies as follows.....To reach their full potential they needs lots of high protein food. This leads to a lot of waste produced. They also need very clean water. It is pretty hard to keep the water clean when at the same time you are putting in tons of waste. Gravel just makes it harder to keep the water clean and no your plants do not significantly help you in that regard. You raise out a few set of discus in a bare bottom tank properly and you will be amazed at the volume of waste that they produce.

Now for a plug........Many years ago some of us got together and started the North American Discus Association. (NADA) It is a fish show with speakers and vendors. The purpose was to have a hell of a lot of fun, to show people what nice discus really look like, and to educate people on how to have success with discus. Long story short we have been really successful in achieving this goal. If I had a dollar for every time someone has said man I did not realize that discus could look like this. I thought my fish were big or I thought my fish were nice. In fact Skip said while he was at his first show that when he got home he was going to kill all of his discus and start over....LOL. The show is in July in Chicago. You can learn more in that 3 day span than you could in 10 years on your own and have one hell of a good time doing it.

Good luck.

-john

[Jack L]

this is not a wind up.....

is there a window of growth opportunity here, or do you Discus pros just want to grow them big ASAP so you can cull the rejects?

meaning does a D have a max potential that has to be reached within X months of life or it will never reach it compared to a D on a slower feeding plan that will get to the same genetic potential size...., but slower?

sorry if i asked this before.

[Jack L]

When young they should grow at roughly 1 inch per month....that is 2.54cm. Well above the 1 cm that you saw. While you did not realize it you were stunting the discus. This is the problem that new people run in to. They have never seen what a really healthy discus looks like so they think they are doing a good job when in reality they are not even close. Not a slam of you. You have no way of knowing what you don't know....LOL. The trouble lies as follows.....To reach their full potential they needs lots of high protein food. This leads to a lot of waste produced. They also need very clean water. It is pretty hard to keep the water clean when at the same time you are putting in tons of waste. Gravel just makes it harder to keep the water clean and no your plants do not significantly help you in that regard. You raise out a few set of discus in a bare bottom tank properly and you will be amazed at the volume of waste that they produce.

Now for a plug........Many years ago some of us got together and started the North American Discus Association. (NADA) It is a fish show with speakers and vendors. The purpose was to have a hell of a lot of fun, to show people what nice discus really look like, and to educate people on how to have success with discus. Long story short we have been really successful in achieving this goal. If I had a dollar for every time someone has said man I did not realize that discus could look like this. I thought my fish were big or I thought my fish were nice. In fact Skip said while he was at his first show that when he got home he was going to kill all of his discus and start over....LOL. The show is in July in Chicago. You can learn more in that 3 day span than you could in 10 years on your own and have one hell of a good time doing it.

Good luck.

-john

Does NADA ever make it to east coast?

also, does the hotel need to be warned their water bill is going to SPIKE when NADA comes to town ; )

[Eddie]

this is not a wind up.....

is there a window of growth opportunity here, or do you Discus pros just want to grow them big ASAP so you can cull the rejects?

meaning does a D have a max potential that has to be reached within X months of life or it will never reach it compared to a D on a slower feeding plan that will get to the same genetic potential size...., but slower?

sorry if i asked this before.

Absolutely! The early months are crucial and it tapers off as the fish reach 9 months (average) they continue to grow a little and will fatten up but the substantial growth is in the early months.

[MatthewJanssen]

I've got a 200l to keep them in without gravel tomorrow. I am currently feeding the discus grated beefheart, and I have ordered some Cobalt Aquatics Pro Breeder Pellet. Will this be sufficient for the fish?

Thanks, Matt.

[Eddie]

I've got a 200l to keep them in without gravel tomorrow. I am currently feeding the discus grated beefheart, and I have ordered some Cobalt Aquatics Pro Breeder Pellet. Will this be sufficient for the fish?

Thanks, Matt.

I don't see why not. Feed what you want if it seems to work.

[John_Nicholson]

Does NADA ever make it to east coast?

also, does the hotel need to be warned their water bill is going to SPIKE when NADA comes to town ; )


We take bids from local clubs and then try to decide where we will have the most impact. We would have not problems coming to the east coast but we will need anestablished club to make a bid.

-john

[FishFanMan]

Chicago is a great location. Plenty of clean freshwater from lake michigan! Gulp...

[Jack L]

Absolutely! The early months are crucial and it tapers off as the fish reach 9 months (average) they continue to grow a little and will fatten up but the substantial growth is in the early months.


okay, thanks....when i look up info say on bluegill, it is more straight line growth charts over a few years. i haven't found any for discus though.

[Eddie]

okay, thanks....when i look up info say on bluegill, it is more straight line growth charts over a few years. i haven't found any for discus though.

In captivity or in nature?

[Jack L]

In nature, fishery reports, university studies, things of that nature

[Eddie]

In nature, fishery reports, university studies, things of that nature

Yeah, totally different than being kept in a glass cage.

[MatthewJanssen]

Hi Guys,

I have the 6 2-4cm discus in a 200 litre tank now, with two canister filters which would normally be sufficient for 250 litres each.

Will I need to do 50% w/c daily, or could I go down to 20% daily, as it is only 6 small discus in the tank?

Thanks, Matt.

[warblad79]

Hi Guys,

I have the 6 2-4cm discus in a 200 litre tank now, with two canister filters which would normally be sufficient for 250 litres each.

Will I need to do 50% w/c daily, or could I go down to 20% daily, as it is only 6 small discus in the tank?

Thanks, Matt.

You could, why not! depending on your goal. The more water change, the faster they grow mostly like will pass 6" inches mark.

[John_Nicholson]

Do you want them to thrive or merely survive?

-john


Hi Guys,

I have the 6 2-4cm discus in a 200 litre tank now, with two canister filters which would normally be sufficient for 250 litres each.

Will I need to do 50% w/c daily, or could I go down to 20% daily, as it is only 6 small discus in the tank?

Thanks, Matt.

[DJW]

I find that its just as easy to do 50% w/c as 20% since you go through the same motions. If it takes much longer for the additional 15 gallons you can try a larger siphon tube and pump to speed it up.

[MatthewJanssen]

My problem was that I only had buckets to do my water change lol, I have a better setup now and am doing 70-80% daily now.

Thanks, Matt.

[MatthewJanssen]

My current WC Schedule is;
Monday 30-50%
Tuesday 30-50%
Wednesday 70-80%
Thursday 30-50%
Friday 30-50%
Saturday 30-50%
Sunday 70-80%

I am also siphoning 1-2 times daily. When I have these 6 grown out, I plan on selling 4 of them on and buying some other strains. What sort of quarantine process should I go through?

Thanks, Matt.

[Filip]

My current WC Schedule is;
Monday 30-50%
Tuesday 30-50%
Wednesday 70-80%
Thursday 30-50%
Friday 30-50%
Saturday 30-50%
Sunday 70-80%

I am also siphoning 1-2 times daily. When I have these 6 grown out, I plan on selling 4 of them on and buying some other strains. What sort of quarantine process should I go through?

Thanks, Matt.

Why would you want to sell them after you put so much energy, time and effort on them?
And why keep only 2 and sell 4?
BTW Quarantine proces last 6 weeks and some people only Deworm the fish during this period.

[MatthewJanssen]

I only want 6 discus, and I think that having different strains would look nicer. I might not do this, I might end up with a larger tank and have 12 discus.

Thanks, Matt.

[Filip]

I hope you do know that Qt only lowers the chances of cross-contamination,but does not eliminates them.
Mixing discus is always risky no matter the proper Qt procedure.