Building My First Discus Tank

[HeyitsSeanT]

As the title says, I'm in the process of building my first discus tank. It's going to be a slow process. I'd be surprised if I had discus in it this time next year. I've gotten my hands on a 75 gallon tank for a good price, but the eventual plan for my dream is a 180, but that's besides the point. Right, wrong or indifferent, I want it to be planted. I can't stand the look of a bare bottom, and yes, I do understand how much easier they are for keeping clean. That being said, the plan is to use sand as a substrate for easier cleaning, coupled with a small army of bottom feeders. My first question is: is using RO/DI water a bad thing? I've got a system already set up and in use that I use for my current 33 gallon and my dad uses the system for both of his saltwater tanks (separate holding barrels). I've heard the RO water has no pH buffering, which is bad. Secondly, if using an RO system is a good thing, would it be a possibility to have it set up so the tank drains directly in to the drain lines of the house and the RO system simply refills it via float valve? I would still supplement a weekly or twice weekly water change of a decent size, but have the system drain say 15 gallons a day. Thirdly, would having a large sump with a big biological filtration area more or less reduce the amount and size of water changes needed? I would still suction any of the detritus out I could find. And lastly, that I can think of for now, how much water turnover is too much? 75 gallon tank with a good 40-50 gallon sump, I was aiming for 1000 gph.

I look forward to reading your replies.

Edit: forgot this one. would having more than one biological filtration section in my sump defeat the purpose? IE, having a wet/dry flow in to K1?

[FishFanMan]

Do have experience with a planted thank? If you don't I'd get that skill under your belt first. You don't want to learn how to do that while learning how to keep discus. Keep it simple is the way to go if you're starting new. Just use tap water and keep it clean, clean, clean like you read in the stickies.

[discuspaul]

Welcome to the forum, Sean.

Quite candidly, it's a tall order for a newcomer to discus to be successful, when wanting to start out with a planted set-up, planning to limit water changes to once or twice weekly, and keeping tank-mates with the discus from the outset.

Looking for ways & means of reducing your wcs and tank cleansing routines is really not a good start-up approach for keeping discus.

Using sand as a substrate, coupled with the addition of a sump system, are of course positive steps, but these alone will not ensure your success.

If you must start out with a planted tank for discus, it should be essential to your thinking to stock the tank only with good quality, healthy adult, or near adult discus (nothing less than 4" or larger) obtained from a known reliable source.

Suggest it would be appropriate for you to do some more homework on keeping discus before jumping in.

The following short set of advices is offered up as a start for you.

All the best of luck to you.


D-I-S-C-U-S - 6 CARDINAL RULES FOR NEWBIES TO FOLLOW

First I'd just like to mention once again that discus are hardier than many people think, and are not difficult to keep, so long as one is prepared to accept and adhere to a few key practices that will provide the best chances of success with discus.

This listing is recorded more or less in order of importance:

1) - D - Do your homework well before delving into discus. Read and research all you can beforehand. Googling will certainly help, as well as spending a good deal of time reading the posts and threads on the simplydiscus.com forum, particularly the stickies in their 'Discus Basics' section, which will provide you with much of the material you need to digest.

2) - I - Investigate and learn of the best sources to get your discus stock. Find those breeders &/or importers that are long time, well-experienced, responsible, reputable, and known to supply high quality, healthy, and well-shaped discus. Buy your discus from one of these sources in order to insure that you get off on the best footing possible.
This is the single, most important factor in succeeding with discus.

3) - S - Set up and plan to follow a strict regular routine of fresh water changes, tank wipe-downs and cleansing, vacuuming of wastes, and regular filter and media cleaning, changes, replacements, and maintenance. Be fully prepared for the kind of commitment it takes to produce and maintain the highest water quality and conditions that you can.

4) - C - Carefully consider the type of tank set up you start with. Make sure the tank size is ample enough to start with 5 or 6 discus. Don't be tempted to begin with a tank of less than 55 or 60 gallons, and don't try to justify going smaller by just getting 1, 2, 3, or 4 discus for cost or other reasons.
Wait till you have sufficient resources to get a proper-sized tank, and the suitable size and number of fish to insure continuing good health and harmonious discus sociability.
Do not start with small, undersized, very juvenile fish which have not yet developed a more mature immune system, are more demanding to raise properly, and much more prone to health problems and other issues. Get fish of at least 3.0" in size, preferably larger.

5) - U - Undertake to start off with a bare bottom tank, unless you're getting fully adult fish and have previous good experience with maintaining a planted tank. If you must have some decor, limit yourself to a very thin sand substrate layer, and perhaps a piece of driftwood with just a couple of small plants attached, or one or two potted plants.
Once you gain several months' of experience getting to know your discus' traits & behavior, and your discus get larger, then you may proceed to an aquascaped environment. Feed a varied diet, several times a day, and learn which foods will achieve a nutritious diet, by researching.

6) - S - Simplify. Keep things as simple as you can to start. Don't complicate your start with discus, at least at first, by placing them in a heavily planted environment, using CO2 and a strict fertilization regime. Make sure your tank is fully cycled before adding the fish, and don't be tempted to alter or change the pH of your water, or modify your water conditions and params by using chemicals of any kind. No need to use RO water or adopt any other procedures that would tend to complicate what should be a simple start to your discus launch.

Follow these 'rules', and there's little doubt you will succeed with discus !

[HeyitsSeanT]

I wasn't planning on limiting water changes, I simply was curious if the idea that I had would work. If I have to do 20 gallons a day manually, that's what I have to do. I had every intention of paying the extra and starting with near adult discus. The reason I'm making this post is to do my research. Like I said, I'd be surprised if I had discus in my tank within the next year.

[discuspaul]

It's encouraging to hear your further comments, which speak well of your positive commitment to success.
As I said earlier, I wish you all the best of luck with your program.

Hopefully others will chime in regarding your thoughts on partial daily draining & refilling of your tank as a complement to the usual water-changing procedures you're prepared to adopt.

[HeyitsSeanT]

Anyone have any other input on my other questions?

[Filip]

1. Plain Ro water is not suitable for any fish nor plants in aquarium becouse it has none of the minerals needed.
Most of RO users mix the Ro- Water with tap in certain ratio 50-50 for instance for re-mineralization and for Kh -buffering as you mention,or add different things product for this purpose.

2.Drip systems are not that efficient for the hygiene that discus need.Large Wc are much more efficient.
Surely they can supplement your regular maintenance, but 15 gallons via drip on 75 gallon is next to nothing.You will have to add gallons to this daily drip to make any difference.

3. Bigger and more biofiltration is always better and never enough,and surely will help you in maintaining your tank, and maybe cheat occasionally on your WC routines.But only occasionally.

4. On the pump.I don't use sump and I don't know how much flow is needed for sumps.
I know that if I put 1000 gph in my 65g. tank without sump,fish will be spinning like clothes in washing mashine :).

[John_Nicholson]

Your plan is flawed. Your water quality will deteriorate and your fish will suffer. Plain as that. I am always amazed by new folks that have never had discus but yet they try to dream up methods that allow them to be lazy. Do you really think the rest of us get our jollies by changing water like we do? Not really. We change water like we do because that is what works well. If your desire is to have small poorly shaped fish with big eyes than ignore all of the good advise that you have been given and try it your way. For the record nearly all of us started our discus journey with a planted tank, we just learned from it. I still have planted tanks, they just don't have discus in them. If you are serious at all about discus you need to look into going to the huge NADA show in Chicago in July. You can learn more there over 3 days than you could in years of just keeping the fish. The biggest thing you will see is what discus are supposed to look like when they are grown out in the proper environment.

Good luck.

-john

[farebox]

May I suggest just start out with an 75G, bare bottom tank, with six 3" discus fish from an SD sponsor. Plan on feeding 4 x daily some quality food, do 50%+ WC daily. Also use sponge or Aquaclear HOB filter. Once they grow out some, then transfer to an planted tank with tankmates. Check out the video done our SD leader on keeping discus. Good luck and enjoy the hobby! Lots of good people here to assist you keeping your fish happy and healthy for a long time.

[rickztahone]

May I suggest just start out with an 75G, bare bottom tank, with six 3" discus fish from an SD sponsor. Plan on feeding 4 x daily some quality food, do 50%+ WC daily. Also use sponge or Aquaclear HOB filter. Once they grow out some, then transfer to an planted tank with tankmates. Check out the video done our SD leader on keeping discus. Good luck and enjoy the hobby! Lots of good people here to assist you keeping your fish happy and healthy for a long time.

This is the video Roland is referring to btw:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXe3VKh7qF8

[HeyitsSeanT]

Alright, major revision to my idea. Firstly, I've seen that video, and I agree it's worth more than a single viewing. Al did a wonderful job on the presentation and Joey did great camera work. Now, that being said, I've managed to find myself a 180 gallon for a great price that I'm picking up this week. The build will still be slow, and again, discus by this time next year would surprise me. My tentative plan is to use the 180 as my main, planted tank. By planted, I don't mean heavily at all. I'm going for a minimalistic look. I'm either going to use the 75 I already have as a sump, hope I find another 75 to use as the sump and use the other as a grow out tank, or build a sump out of acrylic and use the 75 as a grow out tank. A couple more questions: firstly, using a 75 as a grow out tank starting with 3" juvies, could I start with 12 and grow them for 4-6 months following the guidelines for growing out, which I've read a million times, or should I stick with 6, grow out, move them to the larger tank, then get 6 more, grow out, and move to the larger tank? Secondly, with either choice I go with, can I have the 180 functioning as a "community" tank that the discus will simply be added to later, or should I have the 180 more or less empty but running, add discus, then add tank mates after quarantine?

I assume when people say when they do their water changes, they aren't taking a bucket out, pouring it out, rinse and repeat, then doing the same from a holding tank until full. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Is RO water necessary? Or is tap water just fine, as long as it is warmed, aerated and treated with a capful of Prime?

I'd also still love to hear back from someone regarding water turnover rate.

[discuspaul]

Your revised program seems quite sound.

In your stated circumstances, it would seem appropriate, assuming your wallet permits, to get the 12 fish all at once for placement in the 180 gal 'minimalist' tank at the outset.

If the tank kept well cleansed, with large frequent wcs, it won't take long for the 3" fish to reach near adult size of 5", perhaps as little as 2-3 months or so.
Then, proceed to add whatever tank-mates you wish, following a suitable quarantine of course, which includes exposing one discus separately to the tank-mates' quarantine tank to ensure no cross-contamination takes place.

I'm sure you'll find a more or less 'automatic' python drain & refill approach will deal with your wcs as needed.
No RO water needed - tap will be fine, aged if need be, to ensure relative stability in the pH from tap to tank - anything from 6.0 to 8.0 is just fine.

Turnover rate ? Needn't be high, or even moderately high, by any means. Nothing to overly concern yourself with, assuming filtration capacity is adequate given tank size.

Good luck to you. Please post pics as you proceed - we'd all love to see them.

[HeyitsSeanT]

9160491605

Well, I got myself a 180 gallon tank. Needs to be cleaned thoroughly, I know, and I need to build a stand for it, which leads me to my first question: simplest/least expensive way to build? My plan right now is to build it out of untreated 4x4's and leave as much room as I can underneath for my sump.

Secondly, I understand the glass around the edges and middle are braces, but are they necessary? I'll keep the one in the middle for sure, but I don't much care for the look of the edge pieces.

[Filip]

Keep the middle bar as it brings strength and security to your tank.
Other edges serves the purpose for holding glass lids to cap the tank.

[pastry]

Get a submersible pump to make wc's easier. Still need to syphon but at least a pump will do most work for you. Your dad may not want you using his if he has one in order to keep integrity of health. How old are you by the way?

[Boyd Luth]

Welcome Sean to SD. Tons of great info. I enjoy reading all of our info :-) you will I am certain make mistakes :-) Read, and encourage yourself to keep it simple. A few Months ago, I became bored, and decided to change my water chemistry, by additional additives, etc. Fortunately a few members suggested to leave alone if all is working well, lol....I merely use City water, in a large ( 275 gallon tote ) with a pump, and air stones, leaving it to age a day or so, and Chlorine/Chloramine removal, tank is great. I can not agree more with what Paul suggested D-I-S-C-U-S. My fish are healthy, take your time, and keep it simple, good fortune :-)

[rickztahone]

9160491605

Well, I got myself a 180 gallon tank. Needs to be cleaned thoroughly, I know, and I need to build a stand for it, which leads me to my first question: simplest/least expensive way to build? My plan right now is to build it out of untreated 4x4's and leave as much room as I can underneath for my sump.

Secondly, I understand the glass around the edges and middle are braces, but are they necessary? I'll keep the one in the middle for sure, but I don't much care for the look of the edge pieces.

Keep the middle brace as well as the two outer ones.

[Rich Schram]

This is the video Roland is referring to btw:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXe3VKh7qF8

Thank you very much for posting this video. I am a hobbyist that was really considering setting up a discus biotope. I am extremely interested in the Amazon, and I still believe discus are the most beautiful fish from the region. I had been going through this forum and reading books, and the one thing I did not understand was what made these fish so fragile that they required near-daily water changes. It's not that I didn't believe it, but I was looking for more of an explanation of why instead of just a list of consequences of failing to do so. Understanding the natural situation of the discus and how it translates to the home aquarium was incredibly helpful. While I have decided based on the video that I am not ready for discus at this point in my life (too busy with work, family to guarantee I will get to the upkeep/water changes on a daily/every other day basis), I am confident that someday I will be able to handle them based on what I have read. The video does a great job of being informative without being condescending. Please consider making this link to the video a sticky, and encourage all newcomers to view it. Thank you!

[Jason.M]

Discus are a species that is originally from waters that are acidic with low bacteria count and are not equipped to deal with large bacterial numbers that occur in the home aquarium. Smaller and wild caught are more at risk than adult. More water changes keep the bacterial count down. Others can correct any wrong info, but that is my understanding of it in my research.

[rickztahone]

Thank you very much for posting this video. I am a hobbyist that was really considering setting up a discus biotope. I am extremely interested in the Amazon, and I still believe discus are the most beautiful fish from the region. I had been going through this forum and reading books, and the one thing I did not understand was what made these fish so fragile that they required near-daily water changes. It's not that I didn't believe it, but I was looking for more of an explanation of why instead of just a list of consequences of failing to do so. Understanding the natural situation of the discus and how it translates to the home aquarium was incredibly helpful. While I have decided based on the video that I am not ready for discus at this point in my life (too busy with work, family to guarantee I will get to the upkeep/water changes on a daily/every other day basis), I am confident that someday I will be able to handle them based on what I have read. The video does a great job of being informative without being condescending. Please consider making this link to the video a sticky, and encourage all newcomers to view it. Thank you!

Done, I made it a sticky.
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?122038-Are-you-new-to-discus-Watch-this-video!&p=1185178#post1185178