Setting up first discus tank - Did I mess up already?

[Cael]

Hello,

I am in the process of trying to set up my first discus tank, and although I'm only a few days in, I fear I might have made a big mistake already...

The tank is a 50 gallon long. (I'd love a larger one, but we have a tiny house.) I'm lucky in the sense that my tap water here has a pH of 7.2, carbonate hardness of 40 ppm and general hardness of 60 ppm. I researched substrates and decided on flourite with a layer of caribsea super naturals sand (for freshwater aquariums) over top. I washed both the flourite and sand A LOT. But when I put it in and filled the tank (using a bowl on the bottom to deflect) the water looked like chocolate milk. I waited until the next day and did a water change. The next day I moved the plants in, added flourish comprehensive and flourish excel, and of course stirred it all up again in the process. I have an Aquaclear 70 and an Aquaclear 30 going, with polyester pillow batting stuffed in the 70. The water is still horribly cloudy (I can barely see the back of the tank) and there's a fine layer of silt over all the driftwood and plants. This morning I decided to take some readings and although the pH and carbonate hardness are the same, the general hardness has tripled. It's at 180 ppm.

My questions are:
1) Is that too high for discus?
2) Is there any way to lower it effectively without chemicals?
3) I'm assuming the substrate is causing it... will it ever go down as long as I have that substrate?
4) Will the water clear up eventually or will it always look murky?
5) If it will always look murky, will that affect the light reaching the plants?
6) How do I keep the water from seriously clouding up every time something moves in the tank? I have kuhli loaches waiting to go into that tank so things will move in the substrate a lot.
7) Is there a technique people use for water changes with this type of substrate? (I've only ever had gravel before.)

Sorry for so many questions, I'm just really hoping I didn't screw up my discus plans already...

[ericNH]

Setting up a new tank will cause anxiety and doubt if you're not a seasoned veteran - that's normal. Allow more time for the smoke to clear and the dust to settle, so to speak. I'm sure the tank will eventually clear up.

But if you're new to keeping discus and also new to this site, you may find that starting with a planted discus tank is not the best way to go. Yes, it can be done. But I started the same way, and my tank is nothing like the ones I see posted here. It's going to take a complete overhaul to bring it up to snuff, and I just haven't committed to that yet.

Good luck! Have patience, and read, read, read up on all the valuable information on this site.

[rickztahone]

Setting up a new tank will cause anxiety and doubt if you're not a seasoned veteran - that's normal. Allow more time for the smoke to clear and the dust to settle, so to speak. I'm sure the tank will eventually clear up.

But if you're new to keeping discus and also new to this site, you may find that starting with a planted discus tank is not the best way to go. Yes, it can be done. But I started the same way, and my tank is nothing like the ones I see posted here. It's going to take a complete overhaul to bring it up to snuff, and I just haven't committed to that yet.

Good luck! Have patience, and read, read, read up on all the valuable information on this site.

Good point by Eric. Typically in this stage you want to make sure you are cleaning your filter media regularly, almost daily. The free floating dirt is the one you want to trap in your media and get rid of. Use a lot of filter floss in your first line of filtration and remove it and replace it regularly. Your tank will clear up soon.

[Filip]

It will clear up eventually, don't worry.
Just do your cleaning and WCs more often and it should go away.

Do not put discus in it for at least 2 months,so that water parameters and cycling settels up.and rich substrates slows down with the leaching of nutrients.

And buy your self grown 5 inch discus,cause growing discus for the first timers in substrate planted tank is next to impossible.

Good luck and have patience.

[Cael]

Thanks for the reassurance! I will continue to do water changes and swap out the batting in the filter daily. It's looking much better tonight, although it is still cloudy. Will the GH go down as the water clears and the substrate slows down the nutrient leaching? I measured it again tonight and it was still 180 ppm.

I was planning to get younger discus for obvious $$ reasons, but I'm open to getting larger ones if my tank isn't suitable for developing juveniles. I haven't even decided on a number yet. Wavering between 4 and 5... Thankfully I wasn't planning to add the discus until at least February or March so I still have plenty of time to read everything on this forum.

[Filip]

Thanks for the reassurance! I will continue to do water changes and swap out the batting in the filter daily. It's looking much better tonight, although it is still cloudy. Will the GH go down as the water clears and the substrate slows down the nutrient leaching? I measured it again tonight and it was still 180 ppm.

I was planning to get younger discus for obvious $$ reasons, but I'm open to getting larger ones if my tank isn't suitable for developing juveniles. I haven't even decided on a number yet. Wavering between 4 and 5... Thankfully I wasn't planning to add the discus until at least February or March so I still have plenty of time to read everything on this forum.

If your tap hardness differs that much from your tankwater hardness my guess is that new substrates leeching minerals in water and it should slow down with time.

About young discus.
Buying smallest discus to save money and put them in a display planted tank is the most common mistake that discus first-timers does and it's usually doomed to problems and failure.
5 semi adult discus 4-5 inch big is a good number and size to start with.

[rickztahone]

5 is a better number than 4, but conversely, 6 is better than 5 :). With that said, your tank may pose problems. Simply put, it is a very small tank and it will easily get overstocked. 5 is going to be your number if you absolutely need to go with this setup.

[Cael]

I agree 5 would be the absolute max for my tank. Any particular reason 4 wouldn't be good? Is it just because they're schooling fish and would feel more comfortable in larger numbers?

I did another 50% water change last night, which brought the gh down to 120 ppm, and then a 70% water change this morning, which brought it down to 100 ppm. I'll just keep up with them and hopefully it'll be back to normal soon. The water has also cleared up nicely. That was much quicker than I thought possible. Now I'm slightly embarrassed when I look back at my clearly panicked first post. Thank you for all the advice!

[rickztahone]

I agree 5 would be the absolute max for my tank. Any particular reason 4 wouldn't be good? Is it just because they're schooling fish and would feel more comfortable in larger numbers?

I did another 50% water change last night, which brought the gh down to 120 ppm, and then a 70% water change this morning, which brought it down to 100 ppm. I'll just keep up with them and hopefully it'll be back to normal soon. The water has also cleared up nicely. That was much quicker than I thought possible. Now I'm slightly embarrassed when I look back at my clearly panicked first post. Thank you for all the advice!

I have personally done 4 when one of my discus died (originally 5) and the dynamic change in the tank was immediately noticeable. They were much more aggressive and never really went back to their normal selves. This, and others recount of their similar experiences have made it so that most of us will recommend a group of at least 5 or 6 if you can wing it.

[Cael]

Ok, well I don't want aggression to happen, although I guess that's always a risk. I'll learn from all your experience and go with 5. A bit worried about overstocking though... I have a lovely pair of pearl gouramis in there and 4 kuhli loaches. Was thinking of Congo tetras, but I'd better leave those out. I have an Aquaclear 70 and an Aquatop with surface skimmer, as well as a small sponge filter and submersible UV sterilizer in there. Combined with regular maintenance, hopefully that will be enough to keep the water pristine. Now I guess it's just a waiting game to get my readings to stabilize. Thanks!

[ericNH]

I have an Aquaclear 70 and an Aquatop with surface skimmer, as well as a small sponge filter and submersible UV sterilizer in there. Combined with regular maintenance, hopefully that will be enough to keep the water pristine.

I've learned that water changes are far more effective than filtration. I also found that I just wouldn't do them regularly until I made it convenient. I recommend that you think about developing a practical and fairly simple water-changing procedure.

[Cael]

Yep, I used to do 50% once a week, but I'll certainly have to increase and tighten up my routine for discus. I bought an aquavac a few years ago, which helps. Lost all my bucket-hauling arm muscles, but it sure makes water changes faster! I have been just running tap water right to the tank and treating it in there, but I know that's a crappy way to do it. I'm thinking tap to barrel, test and treat it in the barrel, and then use a pond pump to get the treated water back into the tank. Unless anyone has a better way... I'm open.

[ericNH]

I'm thinking tap to barrel, test and treat it in the barrel, and then use a pond pump to get the treated water back into the tank.

That sounds great. I do exactly that - tap to a barrel, age overnight, then pump from barrel into 50% drained tank. What makes it easy for me is that I pump the tank water right out my window, which is right next to the tank and the barrel. My hostas like the frequent doses of fishy-water.

[Cael]

Oh nice. I also have hostas right outside my window. I'll keep that in mind when spring comes. Right now they're buried under snow. I ordered my pump a few days ago so it should be here in a week and I can start the barrel method. Really looking forward to it as the GH continues to creep up unless I do water changes every 2 days. It may be a long wait before I can put discus in there...

[Filip]

Oh nice. I also have hostas right outside my window. I'll keep that in mind when spring comes. Right now they're buried under snow. I ordered my pump a few days ago so it should be here in a week and I can start the barrel method. Really looking forward to it as the GH continues to creep up unless I do water changes every 2 days. It may be a long wait before I can put discus in there...

All indoor and outdoor plants love aquarium water,especially the dirty poop mud after cleaning the mechanical filtration.it's a natural all in one fertilizer for them. Hydroponic systems work that way feeding off fish waste.

Don't worry about high Gh,discus wont mind it. The key with discus is consistency in parameters.
So even if you buy them in a week or so it won't matter as long as you do daily large WCs which won't allow for gh or other parameters to creep up.