Gino's 50g Cube with Sump / Refugium Build

[DiscusGino]

Hello,

This thread is going to be my adventure to jumping into Discus (Conversion from my reef tank).

Tank tear down and pics. Super dirty...
http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac53/GinoEla/1_1.jpg (http://s885.photobucket.com/user/GinoEla/media/1_1.jpg.html)
http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac53/GinoEla/2_1.jpg (http://s885.photobucket.com/user/GinoEla/media/2_1.jpg.html)
http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac53/GinoEla/3_1.jpg (http://s885.photobucket.com/user/GinoEla/media/3_1.jpg.html)

Cleaned and water fill up.
http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac53/GinoEla/5_1.jpg (http://s885.photobucket.com/user/GinoEla/media/5_1.jpg.html)

Equipment mess!!!!
http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac53/GinoEla/4_1.jpg (http://s885.photobucket.com/user/GinoEla/media/4_1.jpg.html)

Driftwood on soak.
http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac53/GinoEla/8.jpg (http://s885.photobucket.com/user/GinoEla/media/8.jpg.html)

Up to date sump.
Just placed 5lbs of miracle Mud2 in 2nd chamber
1st chamber will be K1 with two bubble wands for tumbling
3rd chamber is carbon, bag of ceramic media.

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac53/GinoEla/7.jpg (http://s885.photobucket.com/user/GinoEla/media/7.jpg.html)

Thanks for looking!:D

[rickztahone]

Well the carbon isn't needed. The micracle mud is one I rarely see used in a sump, wouldn't it be disturbed too often and end up in your return section possibly clogging it?

Your sump helps with the total volume of the whole system, but does not negate the fact that the tank is very limiting in space for a discus group. I personally feel you will have a difficult time raising/keeping discus in this footprint tank. That is just my opinion however. Good luck.

[Phillydubs]

Hey Gino and welcome! You just got some great advice from a good guy above me here, Rick knows his stuff...

Hate to pile on and burst your bubble, but that is going to be a tough cube to keep any type of group... I know from experience as I tried a long time back with a 47 gallon tall rectangular type tank and it was just not a suitable set-up...

You could have a great setting for a nice big pair in that tank... but that is all I would suggest...

I am big on overstocking as you will see from my previous posts... I enjoy the look and the lack of aggression but its a pain water change and maintenance wise but I do it... That being said, the dimensions of that tank leave no real room for retreat movement...

[DiscusGino]

Thanks for the feedback and please feel free to critique

I've used the miracle mud (marine version) in my salt water setup to grow some macro algae and did not have any issues clogging the return pump. I rarely see this setup in FW so I want to try to venture out and experiment.

I do only plan on only having a pair of discus in the tank and schooling Rummy Nose / Cardinals.

I drove and prospected around the LFS in socal to see what they have to offer but did not look to well. I might just have to buy a mature pair online after my tank cycles and the water parameters are stable.

[rickztahone]

Thanks for the feedback and please feel free to critique

I've used the miracle mud (marine version) in my salt water setup to grow some macro algae and did not have any issues clogging the return pump. I rarely see this setup in FW so I want to try to venture out and experiment.

I do only plan on only having a pair of discus in the tank and schooling Rummy Nose / Cardinals.

I drove and prospected around the LFS in socal to see what they have to offer but did not look to well. I might just have to buy a mature pair online after my tank cycles and the water parameters are stable.

Someone is currently selling a very nice pair of Penang's in our for sale section. However, I am not sure if they ship. Another option would be to go with our sponsor Eric or Hans for confirmed pairs. It will not be cheap, but may be cheaper than buying a group of 5-6 discus (depending on size). That tank would be great for a pair though. Good luck Gino.

[Phillydubs]

Gino,

If that is your planned set-up then you should just be just fine...

DO NOT GO TO THE LFS!!!

Do yourself a huge gigantic favor and buy fish from our sponsors here... You will thank us all later... Again, heed my advice, I was in your position years ago before I found simply and did it all wrong... To help someone like you who is currently in the position I was once in makes me feel like I can do good based off my mistakes and heartbreak!

There are amazing sponsors on this site all of whom have pairs for sale or prospective pairs, Hans, Eric from Carolina to name a few... You will spend a pretty penny but it will provide you years of enjoyment... If you go to the LFS all the hard work you put in to re-doing this tank will go to waste with fish that will never reach a slight % of the life a sponsors fish will...

[farebox]

I second that what Phillydubs said. Good luck my friend, want as many people to get into the hobby and start off right.

[DiscusGino]

Thanks for the info and the support! I will definitely get one from the sponsors. I've been actually checking out Han's video's for the past week lol. Now, I need to figure out which strain I want... Now the pain staking waiting game cycling the tank....

[Phillydubs]

Patience my friend!!! Not easy but necessary! Wait it out and in the long run you will be thankful... Aquariums and fish are no fun when you are medicating and looking after sick fish, it is quite enjoyable and rewarding when you can enjoy healthy thriving fish!! Remember that!

[DiscusGino]

Update this past week:
K1 media installed
Placed wisteria in refugium chamber
Placed fluval peat granules
boiled the driftwoods that sank and temporarily placed in tank. Still have 4 pcs being cured.
contemplated on adding sand... placed light white fine sand after not liking the BB look since my foam under the tank is like a tinfoil cover and reflects to much light.
trying out a couple of water lettuce. I like the long roots...

Any advise on how much peat to use and or the frequency on changing them? my PH was at 8.1-8.2, now dropping down slowly after 24hrs.

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac53/GinoEla/IMG_4519.jpg (http://s885.photobucket.com/user/GinoEla/media/IMG_4519.jpg.html)
http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac53/GinoEla/IMG_4520.jpg (http://s885.photobucket.com/user/GinoEla/media/IMG_4520.jpg.html)
http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac53/GinoEla/IMG_4521.jpg (http://s885.photobucket.com/user/GinoEla/media/IMG_4521.jpg.html)

[rickztahone]

Love the water lettuce roots. I have used it in the past and they grow so huge in such a short amount of time.

[DiscusGino]

Love the water lettuce roots. I have used it in the past and they grow so huge in such a short amount of time.

Thanks Rick. I love the way they slowly move and spin around the tank!

[Hart24601]

Those roots are really cool. Hmmmmmm.... Maybe I will copy you!


Always nice to see another reef to discus person!

[DiscusGino]

While waiting for the tank to fully cycle. Here is my plan for automatic water change which I will have the plumbing complete this week and programmed hopefully.

For now I will start with draining 1.5g every day at 6pm except for Sunday since Sat after 6 to Monday before the 6pm drain schedule will be my reservoir fill up / aging / airation / dechlorination day (Which I plan to plumb and drip Prime )

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac53/GinoEla/aautomatic%20water%20change.jpg (http://s885.photobucket.com/user/GinoEla/media/aautomatic%20water%20change.jpg.html)

[Hart24601]

Will you paste the code for that? Very interesting. So the 10g tank fills until the float triggers with solenoid to shut off via the apex. 2 pumps turn on, one that pumps from the 10g to the sump and another from sump to drain. There is ATO pump too linked to another float or is that the return pump? Guessing you turn that off during the W/C? And the backup sump float shuts off the ATO and the WC pump from the 10g?

Will you remove the "old" water from the tank before adding new? How much water loss can the sump take before the pump runs dry, or will you have that off? How often and how large WC will you do with this system?

[Boyd Luth]

Nice set up on the Cube, and refug. Great suggestions from Rick. I have a 160 with cardinals and rummies, neat to watch them school together. Only problem I have seen is at certain times the Discus will attempt to capture them :-) they are fast ! with a 50 square, and root system they should have room to hide. Careful on the quantity, ( stocking them ) they will/should have room to school/swim openly. Just a thought. Good fortune, and welcome.

[DiscusGino]

The Solenoid will be on timer. I will time how long it takes to fill up the 10g and use the float valve as a backup. The float valve I have on the 10g I got from BRS where it stops the water flow completely when closed (like a toilet float valve). I made a mistake on the drawing, this float is not hooked on the apex since its self closing based on the water level but might put a safety float on there also just incase.

As the water drains, the ATO will kick in naturally. I have 2 sections in my first chamber (1st section slightly overflowing to the second section). 1st section will have the drain (where the drain of the tank goes directly to) the 2nd section is where the water ATO fills. This avoids new water accidentally getting sucked out. I will have pictures so its more visual and maybe a video once its up and running.

As far as water levels, evaporation, etc. I will have to experiment with it once I have a week or two of run time and I can adjust my programming and also adjust the % water change and might have to fill the 10g 2-3x a week. But my baseline for now is once a week.

All the automatic water changes I see if where they all have "well" water and do not need to have a reservoir to cure and age the water. This is the idea I came up with and hope it works out.



Will you paste the code for that? Very interesting. So the 10g tank fills until the float triggers with solenoid to shut off via the apex. 2 pumps turn on, one that pumps from the 10g to the sump and another from sump to drain. There is ATO pump too linked to another float or is that the return pump? Guessing you turn that off during the W/C? And the backup sump float shuts off the ATO and the WC pump from the 10g?

Will you remove the "old" water from the tank before adding new? How much water loss can the sump take before the pump runs dry, or will you have that off? How often and how large WC will you do with this system?

[Hart24601]

Can't wait to see how it works out for you! I have used those auto-shutoff floats from BRS on quite a few applications without issue, although when I made my current discus setup and put one in the sump I also hooked it to a solenoid and backup float via apex just as another way to prevent a mess!!

[DiscusGino]

Do you have pics fo your sump setup?

Here are my codes so far:

DRAINPUMP
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Time 17:59 to 18:00 Then ON
Defer 001:00 Then ON
If DoW ------S Then OFF

ATOPUMP
Set OFF
Fallback OFF
If ATOSW OPEN Then ON
If SUMPSW CLOSED Then OFF

FWSOLENOID
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Time 18:30 to 18:59 Then ON
If DoW SMTWTF- Then OFF

I had to get some fittings for the solenoid since I accidentally thought the damn garden hose connection was 1/2". So I had to run to Lowes and get a 3/4"F to 1/2"M and 1/2"M to 3/4"M. Also hooked a 12VDC 6A power supply to the solenoid.

Hope to have it running over the weekend break.

Things to do:
Drill a hole on the wall for plumbing & electrical IN/OUT
Setup my doser for PRIME & calculate dosage to 10g reservoir and setup to pump on sunday at 6:30pm.
Install pump/bubble maker in the 10g (always on)


Can't wait to see how it works out for you! I have used those auto-shutoff floats from BRS on quite a few applications without issue, although when I made my current discus setup and put one in the sump I also hooked it to a solenoid and backup float via apex just as another way to prevent a mess!!

[Hart24601]

Thanks! It's easier for me to visualize with the code.

[DiscusGino]

Ran a full cycle for Atomated Water Change today. Everything went well. I am just missing the prime dosing section. I was going to use my Jebao DP-4 but noticed after a while the clock timer on this unit is a tad faster than the standard time after pairing it off ti my apex units time twice up to the seconds.... Now I just need to bite the bullet to get an aqualifter or a BRS single dosing pump and hook it up to my apex. But for now, manual dosing of prime will do...

I have also decided to do daily water change which is 8-9gallons / day and plan to top off the reservoir right after for the next water change.

Here are some of the pictures of the setup so far.

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac53/GinoEla/IMG_4550.jpg (http://s885.photobucket.com/user/GinoEla/media/IMG_4550.jpg.html)
http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac53/GinoEla/IMG_4552.jpg (http://s885.photobucket.com/user/GinoEla/media/IMG_4552.jpg.html)
http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac53/GinoEla/IMG_4553.jpg (http://s885.photobucket.com/user/GinoEla/media/IMG_4553.jpg.html)

[rickztahone]

looking nice. Keep it up.

[DiscusGino]

Update for today.

Installed starboard bottom this past week.
Updated coding on my apex to do 2x water change (around 8 gal/change) at 6am and 6pm
Added extra airpump to tumble K1 media
Calibrated my PH probe. I kept on scratching my head why my tap was 8.1-8.4 ***? corrected after calibration.
Completed setting up to do prime dosing dosing to the reservoir

Water change is easy! hands free! I just have to syphon crap from the bottom here and there.

Tank is cycled and now waiting for Discus shipment from Kenny!

Should I start slowly raise my temp to 84F?

92417

[strawberryblonde]

It's a fascinating read!

The only thing I've seen that gives me pause is your automated water change schedule and I'm surprised that no one else has mentioned it.

Your system might work for you, I can't say for sure that it won't, but in general, it would be much better to simply do a nearly complete water change once per week as opposed to such tiny daily water changes.

I know that the amounts you're planning to change are normal to high-side for a reef tank, but discus are more demanding of clean water. It's not the nitrates that you need to worry about (plants will take care of that) it's the slow build up of pathogens and the decrease in minerals in the water column. Those, from what I've experienced, are the kiss of death for discus.

A 90% water change once a week is only going to take you 30 minutes and for adults in a 50 gallon, they might be sufficient to keep them healthy so long as you aren't overstocked on tetra's. (Just as an FYI, most breeders here use 40g tanks and change water every day or every other day)

As far as your pH goes, there's really no need to use peat to lower it. Discus do quite well at any pH, so long as it remains steady. My own tanks are all at 8.2-8.4 pH and my discus are healthy and even breed well... something I'd rather they DIDN'T do! LOL

If you do decide to try the auto water changes and the peat, I"ll follow along on this thread to see how it turns out for you.

[DiscusGino]

Thank you for the feedback. I kind of like the peat water color actually. For now, I will keep my auto water change schedule and probably try to do a 50% water change every week. I wish I have room for a brute trash can to age water. I'm not comfortable putting a straight hose to my tank for some reason without prime mixing through it first.


It's a fascinating read!

The only thing I've seen that gives me pause is your automated water change schedule and I'm surprised that no one else has mentioned it.

Your system might work for you, I can't say for sure that it won't, but in general, it would be much better to simply do a nearly complete water change once per week as opposed to such tiny daily water changes.

I know that the amounts you're planning to change are normal to high-side for a reef tank, but discus are more demanding of clean water. It's not the nitrates that you need to worry about (plants will take care of that) it's the slow build up of pathogens and the decrease in minerals in the water column. Those, from what I've experienced, are the kiss of death for discus.

A 90% water change once a week is only going to take you 30 minutes and for adults in a 50 gallon, they might be sufficient to keep them healthy so long as you aren't overstocked on tetra's. (Just as an FYI, most breeders here use 40g tanks and change water every day or every other day)

As far as your pH goes, there's really no need to use peat to lower it. Discus do quite well at any pH, so long as it remains steady. My own tanks are all at 8.2-8.4 pH and my discus are healthy and even breed well... something I'd rather they DIDN'T do! LOL

If you do decide to try the auto water changes and the peat, I"ll follow along on this thread to see how it turns out for you.

[strawberryblonde]

Awww, I know it sounds scary to go straight from the tap to the tank, but if you're using Prime or Safe (much cheaper and same product) it's perfectly safe. I've been doing it that way for years now and never lost a single discus to a water change.

If you like the color of peat, but don't want to worry about the pH, you can always use Rooibos tea leaves. They stain the water a lovely shade, just like peat, but don't alter pH. They also have phenol compounds that are beneficial to the fish.

[rickztahone]

Awww, I know it sounds scary to go straight from the tap to the tank, but if you're using Prime or Safe (much cheaper and same product) it's perfectly safe. I've been doing it that way for years now and never lost a single discus to a water change.

If you like the color of peat, but don't want to worry about the pH, you can always use Rooibos tea leaves. They stain the water a lovely shade, just like peat, but don't alter pH. They also have phenol compounds that are beneficial to the fish.

+1. I have been using it for years with no problems. Simply add enough powder to cover the entire tank volume and not only the amount you are changing.

[Dhavalsp]

that is one fancy setup.

Any updates? are they flying yet?