Question regarding community tanks with Discus

[Davidzil]

I was curious to see what is the explanation on problems in community tanks with multiple Discus.

If a discus in the tank develops a problem, whether it is a bacterial or parasitic ..., why other wish in the tank usually doesn't show these problems, if you are keeping rams or apistos should they show the same problems?

I am reading some of these posts and wondering, shouldn't all the fish in the tank be compromised?

[jmf3460]

I think the reason most of the posts involve discus is because this is a discus forum.

[DISCUS STU]

Bacterial and parasitic problems may exist in a tank and only affect one or very few fish. This may seem random but is more often a result of health/immune issues and the lowering of a particular fish's resistance to these due to an over abundance of harmful bacteria and parasites in the water and environment.

Discus aren't necessarily weak, wilting, "hot house" flowers, they've gotten along just fine for thousands to millions of years in a wide range of waters in South America, but there are definite standards and practices for best health.

Generally tanks that are well maintained find their inhabitants suffering from minimal amounts of this. "Sick" tank syndrome, tanks that have lower hygiene and minimal quarantine standards usually have more of this. Rams, apistos may have different reactions to these issues and may be more or less tolerant. Sometime Rams are the canary in the coal mine that let me know that I need to up my maintenance, they die off.

Healthy tanks with fish that have been thoroughly quarantined and are well maintained, again have less of this. Regardless, fish get sick even in well maintained tanks, it just happens less frequently.

[Davidzil]

I agree with whats stated above, for sure discus are not a weak fish, given as I have seen on some posts hammered by meds for weeks and on, and still kicking.

The question was more of not being sure what the problem is, why would you remove the discus that has the visible problem and treat that discus in a QT tank and then bring that discus back to the community tank, assuming there is no issue with other fish.
Same with doing a dip treatment on the discus that has the visible problem and then putting him back with others.
What I am trying to say, unless you know for sure that is the issue, shouldn't you treat the who tank, yes and we know they are big tanks and will be $$$, but whats the thinking process?

[DISCUS STU]

Bacterial issues for individual fish to the point of needing treatment would be less expensively treated in a qt tank, better, increased maintenance could do the rest for the larger tank.

Full blown parasitic outbreaks once they're definitely identified, may need to have the tank treated.

[Davidzil]

Ok, how do most people, we are talking about general public that just keeps fish for show purposes definitely identifies that they have a parasitic outbreak or even a bacterial issue.
I am not trying to put anyone on the spot here, this is just a general discussion.

[DISCUS STU]

Not to worry, it's a very good question. Short of culturing a slide and identifying these things with a microscope, also done by hobbyists, there are certain observations that may help differentiate one from the other. That having been said, sometimes it ain't easy (lol).

There are diseases that are easier to identify as bacterial, fungal, viral, parasitic, mechanical, or other. And some are much more difficult and may even be the result of a few things. I've had Discus holding one pectoral fin closed and breathing heavily which usually indicates gill flukes, except when it turned out to be a bacterial infection. Sorry if I don't have a better answer for you but sometimes it's difficult and people can end up treating for one problem only to find out that they have something else entirely.

This forum is a good resource if you have sick fish, vis a vis the "Disease Section". Though even with years of experience making a good identification of what your fish may have can again be difficult.

The best course is always preventative; keep healthy fish with good tank maintenance, plenty of clean water, high quality food, etc. and deal with disease issues as they arise with the help of the many experienced hands on this forum.

[Davidzil]

Thank you, and yes for sure this is the place to go when you are not sure whats going on with your discus.

[strawberryblonde]

Here's how it all breaks down for me. They are things I've learned with general community tanks, discus tanks with other fish in them and strictly discus only tanks.

1) Bacteria, fungus, molds and parasites are present in all tanks, regardless of how clean you keep the tank and regardless of whether or not you do prophylactic med treatments on your fish (yep, some people insist on treating for flukes and worms before there is evidence of them in their discus). Healthy fish with strong immune systems can deal with the bacteria and other harmful pathogens in a tank so long as the tank conditions and foods they are fed are good enough to keep the pathogens to a minimum, stress on the fish to a minimum and health at a maximum.

2) Since there are always pathogens in a tank that the fish deal with on a daily basis, once you add any type of stress, be it poor water quality, poor foods, fighting and constant aggression, lack of proper quiet time for rest in the tank (too many hours of light and activity, too few hours of darkness and quiet), breeding activity, etc.... the immune systems of your fish start to suffer. It can take a very long time for signs of illness to show up. The weakest fish show symptoms first, and eventually, if conditions and problems in the tank aren't corrected, all the fish will start to show symptoms as their immune systems become too weak to fight off pathogens.

So that's why there is such a strong emphasis on water changes, clean filters, either no substrate to trap detritus or a thin layer of substrate that is cleaned often and very well, and good foods. Providing those parameters for your discus, and for your other community fish, will keep strong immune systems and will allow the fish to continue handling the pathogens in the tank. The large water changes also keep the level of pathogens to a minimum, which is a best practice!

As for why some discus might get sick and not the rest of the community fish in the tank, it's fairly basic. Different fish handle different pathogens in their own way, depending on their immune systems. For me, my GBR's show symptoms long before my discus do. But then again, I only buy discus from sponsors on these forums and they arrive at my home with very healthy immune systems. Results will vary if you purchase from home breeders and your LFS.

So that leaves how to treat a discus when you see a problem. Since no other fish are showing symptoms, you can assume that the sick discus has a weaker immune system. Therefore, it's best to pull him out of the tank and then treat him in a separate tank. He may, or may not, need medication. He may only need relief from stress in the main tank and lots of clean water and good food in order to regain his healthy immune system again. He will do that better and faster if he isn't in the main tank and living with the stress of the natural bullying and nudging that is part of daily discus life.

You make a good point about the main tank though. When you do see one discus with a problem, or even a few of them, you still need to correct the issues in the main tank that led to the problem. It's often just easier to treat the sick fish in a hospital tank while you are making the corrections so that when you place the fish back into the tank, they won't sicken again.

[Davidzil]

Yes Toni,

I agree on prime stock to be key, I myself don't buy from chain stores or LFS. That is why my issues are at a minimum. I am helping a friend as you been kind to respond to the other post I had. That is where my question is coming from. It's always a learning process.