Beginner Questions

[Mr. Nikhil S. Asinkar]

To,

The Respected Members,

Simply Discus Forum.

Pl. Note : Only Highly Experienced & Advanced Level Members of this Forum are Sincerely Requested to Opine for this Post.

A Very Good Evening To You All. Myself Mr. Nikhil Intends to Set Up An Aquarium Exclusively for Discus.

Hence, I Seek Your Expert Recommendations for the Following Issue :-

01). Before Purchasing the Suitable Aquarium Along With Those Accessories & Products Which are Essential for Successful Fish Keeping, I Do Intend to Have the Proper Knowledge of My Tap Water Chemistry.

02). Quite 3-4 Years Before, I had Suffered a Huge Financial Loss Regarding Loosing Most Beautiful & Rare Varieties of Discus.

03). This was so Because, As a Beginner, Whenever I Used to Visit the Local Fish Shops for Purchasing Discus & Ask for their Recommendations on Setting Up the New Environment for Discus Fish, None of Their Opinions Proved to Be Beneficial while Starting Up a New Aquarium & There After.

04). It was My Close Observation that Whenever a New Fish was Introduced into My Newly Setup Aquarium, It Used to Sit at the Bottom Surface of the Tank for Prolonged Periods & Always Refused for Having Being Fed High Quality Dry Fish Foods & Live Blood Worms. Also, the Fish Used to Become Hyper Active Very Often & Used to Rub Itself Against the Surface of Objects like Filter & Glass of the Tank & then Eventually Die.

05). As Per the L.F.S. Suggestions, I tried My Levels to the Best for Treating Tap Water in the Following Ways :-

(a). De-Chlorinated Tap Water with an Ordinary De-Chlorinator & Aerated with an Air Pump Heavily for 15 Mins. - Result Failed ;
(b). De-Chlorinated Tap Water with an Ordinary De-Chlorinator & Aerated with an Air Pump Heavily for Exactly an Hour - Result Failed ;
(c). De-Chlorinated Tap Water with a Complete Tap Water Conditioner & Aerated for a Period of 15 Mins. - Result Failed ;
(d). De-Chlorinated Tap Water with a Complete Tap Water Conditioner & Aerated for a Period of 24 Hrs. - Result Failed ;
(d). De-Chlorinated Tap Water with a Complete Tap Water Conditioner & Aerated for a Period of 48 Hrs. - Result Failed ;
(e). De-Chlorinated Tap Water with a Complete Tap Water Conditioner & Added Fresh Water Aquarium Salt & then Aerated for a Period of 15 Mins. ; 01 Hr. ; 24 Hrs. & 48 Hrs. - Result Failed ;

Also, I Used to Properly Acclimate the Fish into the New Aquarium as Recommended by the Experts.

At that Point of Time I Became Very Frustrated & Nervous & Unfortunately Gave Up the Hobby of Fish Keeping. Being Exercised Huge Efforts, Time & Money, I Could Not Save Any of My Fish Under Such Stressful Situations.

Hence, After a Long Time, I Have Decided Once Again to Keep Discus Fish as My Pets & Ready to Do What Ever I Can Do the Best from My Side.

My Tap Water Looks Very Clear & Also There Is No Contamination. But Still, As Mentioned Previously, I Intensely Doubt on the Tap Water pH & Have Decided to Purchase " API FRESH WATER MASTER TEST KIT " so that I Can Monitor the Tap Water pH & Other Essential Parameters There After Setting My Tank.

Dear Members, What Do You Think for This Issue ? According to You, Is Tap Water pH Solely Responsible OR Are There Any Such Factors Beyond My Reach, Which are Affecting the Fish ?

Please Guide Me Properly Through Out this Process & Give Your Valuable Recommendations Regarding the Use of Above Mentioned Test Kit. Does API Fresh Water Master Test Kit Alone Is Enough OR Is There Any Other Test Kit Which Is Far More Beneficial Than API & Will Render Out Exact Parameters of Tap Water ?

Please Reply At Your Earliest.

Sincerely,

Mr. Nikhil S. Asinkar.

[strawberryblonde]

Hi Nikhil and welcome to the forums!

I think that your post would fit better in the beginner section of the forums and that you will be able to get good advice from a number of people in that section. I think that SecondHandPat will move your post for you, so you don't need to repost over there.

In the meantime, I'll begin by laying out how to properly start up and then maintain a discus tank. This method is true for all discus.

1) The level of your pH doesn't matter for discus so long as the pH stays at a steady reading. My pH is very high at 8.2-8.4 and all of my discus are fine with that.

2) Since you use tap water you will want to use a good quality de-chlorinator. If you use Safe or Prime, it costs less and will last longer as you only use a small amount per gallon of fresh water.

3) The most important part of keeping your discus healthy is regular large water changes. Discus can't handle high levels of nitrates in their water column. Use an API test kit to measure the nitrates and keep them below 5ppm at all times and the discus will be fine.

So, to set up a tank for discus, begin by doing the following:

1) To grow out young discus (under 6"/15cm, purchase at least a 50g/190 liter tank.

2) Paint the outside bottom of the tank white, and be sure that any background you use is light colored.

3) Add a heater to warm the water to 82F / 28C.

4) While your discus are growing, do not add any sand or gravel in the tank and no plants or decor. You can add these once the discus are adults.

5) Cycle your tank using a fishless cycle. You can google that or read about a fishless cycle here on the forums.

6) Once the tank is cycled, add your discus. If they are going to be grown out in this tank, then placed in a larger tank, be sure to only purchase 1 discus per 10 gallons of water for the permanent tank. For instance, I have a 120 gallon tank, so 12 discus is the maximum that I can put in there. I understock it by only having 8-10 discus at a time, and that leaves me room to add some tetra's and some driftwood.

7) When you bring your discus home there is no need to acclimate them. Simply lift them out of their bags and place them directly into the tank. They may get a little pale and a few may lay on the bottom for an hour or two, but they will be fine. No panic! Just leave the lights off and wait.

8) Do not feed them the first day. Give them time to adjust to the new tank and then feed lightly on the second day, increasing the amount slowly each day.

9) Change at least 80% of the water every day while they are growing. The younger they are, the more they will eat and the more you will need to change water. This is the essential part of keeping your discus healthy.

10) Foods can be discus flake foods, discus pellets, freeze dried worms and frozen beefheart. If you choose to feed frozen beefheart, be sure to only feed it them one hour before your daily water change so that you can vacuum out any leftovers. This is very important!

And that's it.

For Filtration, sponge filters are the easiest option for growing discus. You can use 2 of them, be sure that they are the largest ones you can buy. Rinse one filter each week in used tank water to remove any detritus from the outside of the sponge material.

You do not need to use carbon or salt in a discus tank.

I hope this helps you get started with your new tank.

[Mr. Nikhil S. Asinkar]

To,

The Respected,

Strawberry Blonde.

First of All, A Very Good Afternoon to You. I Thank You Sincerely for Co-Operating with Me & Replying for My Initial Post.

01). For Your Reference in Respect with Statement No.02 (Regarding Conditioning Tap Water) which You Posted in Reply for My Post, Hereby, I Would Like to Mention that for the First Time, I Have Used a Simple De-Chlorinating Liquid (White-O-Liquid) which Neutralizes Only Chlorine from the Tap Water & is Easily Available with All The Local Fish Shops. But I Couldn't get a Satisfactory Result After Using That Liquid. Then I Used API STRESS COAT+ Along with API STRESS ZYME+ but That Also Made No Difference At All. Once Again I Would Like to Mention That After Having Being Used an Ordinary De-Chlorinator & Complete Water Conditioner (As Mentioned Above) Did Not Prove to be Beneficial At All. The Fish Used to Lay at the Bottom of the Tank for Several Weeks without Any Movement & Strongly Resisted for High Quality Dry Food like TETRA BITS & So On. Very Often They Became Hyper Active with Extreme Movements Around the Tank & Rubbing Themselves Against the Filter & Glass Tank Surface. Also, It Was Observed that the Portion of Their Eyes was Swollen During That Period of Time. The Tap Water (Being De-Chlorinated) which was Used at that Time was Crystal Clear with No Contamination At All. At the Time of Purchasing these Fish from the L.F.S., They Seemed to be Very Fine with that Environment & Did Not Show Any Kind of Abnormal Behaviour. But Whenever I Used to Introduce Them into My Aquarium, They Used to Get Sick Immediately after Introduction. Dear Strawberry, Why Is It So that Fish Always Look to be Happy & Fine & Eat Aggressively Whatever is Being Fed by the Local Pet Shops Though They are Not Properly Cared For ? Do These L.F.S. Owners Hide From Us Those Key Factors Which They Apply & are Responsible for Successful Fish Keeping ?

In Contrast, When We People being Genuine by Nature are Willing to Devote More Time, Exercise Our Best Efforts & Ready to Spend a Huge Amount on the Best Products & Accessories Available as on Today, Do Whatever Best We Can for Providing Optimum Care to Our Lovely Pets. But Still Something, Somewhere is Going Wrong which Cannot be Easily Identified by Me.

From My Point of View, Perhaps, the Above Mentioned De-Chlorinators Must Have Pampered with the pH Level of the Tap Water. The pH Level of My Tap Water must have Lowered Considerably. Many Expert Aquarists Online Do Have the Same Opinion Regarding Such De-Chlorinators.

02). You Have Also Recommended TERTA AQUA SAFE+ OR SEACHEM PRIME. But One Thing I Would Like to State is That PRIME is Highly Regarded Over Most Competing Water Conditioners Till Todays Date. Many Online Websites for e.g., THE GOLDFISH TANK, AQURIUM ADVICE FORUM, etc. Strongly Advice to Use Prime as the Only Solution for Complete Water Care. Also the Manufacturer of PRIME States that It Will Condition the Tap Water Without Disturbing its pH Level. Competing Products Other Than PRIME Do Not Guarantee about Maintaining the Same pH Level. This Information was Just for Your Kind Reference.

03). In Response with Your Statement No. 01 (Regarding Size of the Tank), I Would Like to Mention that I Can Accommodate only a 2 & 1/2 Feet Tank. Hereby I Would like to State the Exact Measurements which I Propose to Get My Tank Assembled With. Height - 23 Inches ; Length - 30 Inches & Width - 15 Inches. Please Let Me Know Regarding How Many Small Sized OR Mid Sized Discus Fish Can I House with the Above Mentioned Size of the Tank. Also, Is There Any Such Test Kit which can Calibrate the Amounts of Chlorine & Chloramine in Fresh Tap Water Along With API FRESH WATER MASTER TEST KIT ? If Yes, Do You Recommend to Use Such a Kit for Complete Water Care with Seachem Prime OR Is It Perfectly OK by You to Just Use Prime without the Need for Knowing the Exact Water Parameters for Chlorine & Chloramine ?

Your Earliest Reply for This Post Would Be Highly Appreciated.

Faithfully Yours,
Mr. Nikhil S. A.

[Akili]

Nikhil,Toni has recommended beef heart and getting beef heart is going to be a problem for you as you are in Mumbai - Maharashtra, India for number of reasons that you are aware of. You can substitute beef heart for lamb,goat,chicken or turkey hearts.Turkey and chicken hearts are smaller which makes it a bit difficult in removing the fat. Let explain to some who do not know "Slaughter of the cow and its progeny is banned in most of India" In Maharashtra: Penalty includes imprisonment up to maximum of 6 months or fine of up to Rs 1,000 or both. I hope No offence meant to Nikhil and do not take it Personal I am sure there is the religious aspect and I think you are a vegetarian.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Nikhil and welcome to Simply,

Lets cover a few basics; did you cycle your tank before introducing fish to it? Did you use API Master Test kit to measure ammonia and nitrite after introducing fish to the tank. Do you know what the nitrogen cycle is?

Regards,
Pat

[strawberryblonde]

Hi again Nikhil,

I think it is fairly safe to say that your use of a dechlorinator was not the reason that your discus died.

Second Hand Pat has asked some very important questions regarding the tank where your discus all died. Answers to her questions will give us much more information on what actually caused the deaths.

This is why I was specific about how to set up a new tank and the fact that you need to do a fishless cycle prior to adding discus. And also why you need to do large daily water changes. When you add discus to any tank, even if it has fully cycled filters, you are likely to experience a mini-cycle due to the increased bio-load of the discus. This means that your ammonia levels, and after that your nitrite levels will spike until the filters have adjusted to the addition of the discus.

When you say that you only have space for a small tank, do you mean that you will never be able to place your discus into a larger tank?

If yes, then at this time I don't recommend trying to grow out discus. Discus require 10 gallons of water each, and should be kept in groups of at least 5-6 fish per tank. This means that you would need a larger tank in order to provide for their needs.

[Akili]

A tank Height - 23 Inches ; Length - 30 Inches & Width - 15 Inches will only hold 44.8gUS. 30 inches in length does not give too much of room to school as Discus are a schooling fish.

[Mr. Nikhil S. Asinkar]

To,

The Respected Members,

Simply Discus Forum.

A Very Good Evening to You All. Once Again, Sincere Thanks for Replying to My Posts.

Strawberry Blonde has Requested to Answer All of the Questions by Second Hand Pat & Also Provide As Much Information that are Responsible for the Death of My Fishes.

Hereby, I Would like to Reply to All the Questions Raised by Second Hand Pat & Provide Maximum Information Thereby.

Q.1). Did I Cycle My New Tank Prior to Adding Fish ?

Q.2). Did I Use API FRESH WATER MASTER TEST KIT to Monitor the Ammonia & Nitrite Levels in the Tank ?

Q.3). Also, Am I Known to the Process of Nitrogen Cycle ?

The Answer to Q. Nos. 1 & 2 is ABSOLUTELY NO. I didn't Cycle My Tank Before Adding Fish into It because Nobody Told Me about the Nitrification Process when Requested for an Advice to Set Up a New Aquarium. Since, I Couldn't Get a Genuine Advice, No Question Arises Regarding the Use of the Above Mentioned Kit to Detect the Levels of the Above Toxic Substances.

Since, I was Completely New to this Field of Fish Keeping, I Couldn't Get Any Expert Suggestions & Recommendations from the Experts Like You People. Also, In My Contact, I Couldn't Get any Such Person who is Quite Knowledgeable in the Field of Aquatics at that Point of Time. I was Solely Dependant on the Advice Given to Me by the L.F.S. Whenever I Used to Visit the Local Pet Shops for Buying New Fish, the L.F.S. Owners use to Tell that Just De-Chlorinate the Fresh Tap Water using A Commercial De-Chlorinator. Switch on the Filter / Aerate the Water for About 15 Mins. & Float the Bag for Another 15 Mins. for Acclimation & then Release the Fish. While Some of them Opined that Just Aerate the Fresh Tap Water without Using Any Kind of De-Chlorinator for a Day or Two So that Chlorine in that Tap Water Evaporates & then Introduce the Fish.

As Far As the Nitrogen Cycle is Concerned, I Just Know that Through the Process of Cycling, A Colony of Beneficial Bacteria (Nitrifying Bacteria) is Created in the Filter & Substrate of the Aquarium. The First Colony of Bacteria viz., Nitrosomonas Break Down Harmful Substances from Ammonia (Extremely Toxic) to Nitrites (Comparatively Less Toxic than Ammonia) & the Second Colony of Another Bacteria - Nitro Bacter / Nitro Spira Convert Nitrites to Nitrates (Less Toxic at Lower Levels). This Entire Process of Cycling Can Take Up to Several Days OR Weeks Depending Upon the Vol. of Water in the Tank. There are 2 Methods to Cycle the Aquarium, Namely " Fishless Cycling & Fish-In-Cycle ". The Former One is Highly Preferred Over the Later since there are Very Less Chances of Loosing the Fish. When the Cycling Process Gets Completed & at the Time of Adding New Fish, the Fresh Water Master Test Kit should Give the Following Results :-

01). Ammonia - 0 p.p.m. (Parts Per Million) ;
02). Nitrites - 0 p.p.m ;
03). Nitrates - Up to 20 p.p.m. (To Get Nitrates up to this Level, a Major Water Change is Required Around 80-90 % at the End of the Cycling Process. This is so Because, Initially Nitrates will Test Between 40-50 p.p.m which is a Very High Range & May Prove to be Fatal for Fish).

The Sole Aim of Nitrogen Cycle is to Avoid " NEW TANK SYNDROME ". The Most Imp. Thing Required at the Time of Cycling Process is " PATIENCE ".

As Far As the Tank Size is Concerned, I Cannot Accommodate a Fish Tank Larger than the Size which I Mentioned in My Previous Post.

Hope You People Understand Me & Co-Operate At Your Best.

Please Reply for this Post at Your Earliest.

Sincerely,
Mr. Nikhil S. A.

[ericNH]

As Far As the Nitrogen Cycle is Concerned, I Just Know that Through the Process of Cycling, A Colony of Beneficial Bacteria (Nitrifying Bacteria) is Created in the Filter & Substrate of the Aquarium. The First Colony of Bacteria viz., Nitrosomonas Break Down Harmful Substances from Ammonia (Extremely Toxic) to Nitrites (Comparatively Less Toxic than Ammonia) & the Second Colony of Another Bacteria - Nitro Bacter / Nitro Spira Convert Nitrites to Nitrates (Less Toxic at Lower Levels). This Entire Process of Cycling Can Take Up to Several Days OR Weeks Depending Upon the Vol. of Water in the Tank. There are 2 Methods to Cycle the Aquarium, Namely " Fishless Cycling & Fish-In-Cycle ". The Former One is Highly Preferred Over the Later since there are Very Less Chances of Loosing the Fish. When the Cycling Process Gets Completed & at the Time of Adding New Fish, the Fresh Water Master Test Kit should Give the Following Results :-

01). Ammonia - 0 p.p.m. (Parts Per Million) ;
02). Nitrites - 0 p.p.m ;
03). Nitrates - Up to 20 p.p.m. (To Get Nitrates up to this Level, a Major Water Change is Required Around 80-90 % at the End of the Cycling Process. This is so Because, Initially Nitrates will Test Between 40-50 p.p.m which is a Very High Range & May Prove to be Fatal for Fish).

The Sole Aim of Nitrogen Cycle is to Avoid " NEW TANK SYNDROME ". The Most Imp. Thing Required at the Time of Cycling Process is " PATIENCE ".

It sounds like you have a fairly good understanding of the nitrogen cycle. One thing I want to mention, though, is that many of the experienced members on SD recommend keeping the nitrates in your tank at 5 ppm or less - most often accomplished through frequent water changes plus having fully-cycled filtration.

[Mr. Nikhil S. Asinkar]

To,

The Respected Members,
Simply Discus Forum.

Pls. Note : Only Highly Experienced / Advanced Members are Requested to Reply for this Post.

A Very Good Afternoon to You All.

Myself Mr. Nikhil intends to CYCLE My Aquarium Prior to the Introduction of New Discus Fish (THE NITROGEN CYCLE).

I have Personally Chosen the '' Fishless Cycling Method ''. According to you People, Is Fishless Cycling the Most Trust Worthy MethodOR Is there Any Other Method, Much Better than Fishless Cycling ? Please Guide Me Precisely Regarding All the Essential Requirements for that Method which You People Personally Recommend for Successfully Cycling My New Fish Tank.

Also, Please Refer to Me the Most Advanced & Experienced Members form All Around & the Medium through which I can Easily Communicate with them & who can Guide me Systematically throughout the Process of Nitrification.

Sincerely Yours,
Mr. Nikhil S. A.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Nikhil, try this link http://www.wikihow.com/Do-a-Fishless-Cycle. Breaks down the fishless cycle pretty well.
Pat

[Mr. Nikhil S. Asinkar]

To,

The Respected Members,
Simply Discus Forum.

Pls. Note : Only Advanced & Highly Experienced Members of the Forum are Requested to Give Their Expert Opinion.

In My Previous Posts, I have Discussed with You People Regarding Setting Up the Aquarium for Discus & Once Again I am Sincerely Thankful to You All for Your Kind Support.

Now, I Intend to Know Regarding the Use of Filtered Water for the Purpose of Aquarium.

I Reside In Such A Place where there is a System of Co-Operative Housing Society. The Main Water Storage Tanks are Housed on the Terrace of our Bldgs. For Over Years these Tanks are Not At All Cleaned. It can be Easily Observed that there is a Thick Layer of Mud Resting at the Bottom Surface of the Tank.

Hence, At My Home, I have Installed an Ordinary Water Purification System which Consists of A SINGLE CARTRIDGE THAT CONTAINS ACTIVATED CARBON as the ONLY FILTERATION MEDIA WITH SILVER IMPREGNATION.

Can I Use Such a Type of Filter for Aquarium since It Removes the Water Contamination in Respect with DIRT, DUST & MUD ?

When I Consulted My Technician who Services My Water Purification System Periodically, He Said that Such Type of Filters Do Neutralize Chlorine for About 60-65 % .

For Complete Removal of Chlorine & Other Toxic Substances from Fresh Tap Water, Can I Use SEACHEM PRIME ALONG WITH THE FILTERED WATER ? Also, Please Let Me Know WHEN WATER IS PURIFIED THROUGH ACTIVATED CARBON, DOES ACTIVATED CARBON DISTURBS THE ORIGINAL LEVEL OF TAP WATER pH ? IF IT DOES SO WITH SOME CHANGES IN THE pH, CAN I STILL USE IT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PURIFICATION ? FOR YOUR REFERENCE MY TAP WATER pH IS BETWEEN 7.0-7.5.

Also, I am Very Well Aware of the Fact that RO & DI WATER PURIFIERS do the Best for Water Purification. But When I Consulted My Local Fish Breeder of Discus, He Opined that Such Units are NOT AT ALL NECESSARY SINCE THE WATER QUALITY IN OUR LOCATION (MUMBAI) IS VERY SUITABLE FOR THE PURPOSE OF AQUARIUM.

Lastly, I Sincerely Urge to You People for Your Expert Opinion Regarding the USE OF FILTERED WATER THROUGH ACTIVATED CARBON & ALSO USING SEACHEM PRIME ALONG WITH IT FOR COMPLETE DE-TOXIFICATION OF TAP WATER.

Please Reply At Your Earliest.

Faithfully Yours,
Mr. Nikhil S. A.