New Guy Questions

[Madbadger98]

I'll be picking up my first ever discus here before the end of the year. But before I pick up the group I'm waiting for my setup to be perfect for keeping discus or as perfect as I can get.

Setup:
55 Gallon planter aquarium
2 canister Filters- Marineland C350 and a Fluval 305
Marineland Heater keeping opposite side of tank at 82*

Fish:
5 Discus
2 GBRs
11 Neon Tetras
2 SAE
2 Farlowella catfish

75% weekly water change

My question is would this be sufficient enough to make my first experience with discus a success? Should I amp up the water changes or filtration? Add a smal power head? Any advice is welcome and great fully accepted as this is my first experience with discus

[discuspaul]

Welcome to simply discus.

A 55 gal tank is quite small for the number of livestock you have planned - suggest you confine yourself to just the 5 discus, or the discus & the 2 GBR's, or the discus & 10 Cardinal Tetras (not Neons - they will not do well at the higher discus temp and might become lunch for the discus) instead of the GBR's. Dispense with the catfish & SAE's.

Your planned 75% weekly wc will be insufficient unless you get adult or near adult discus from the outset (not smaller than 5"). If they're smaller than that, you'll need to increase your wcs to daily until they grow out, or at the very least, to every 2nd day, coupled with a thorough tank cleansing routine of glass wipe-downs & substrate vacs with each wc.
Limit your décor & plantings, if any, to minimum levels for best results.

Please do some homework and read all the stickies here in the Beginner's Basics section.
Best of luck to you.

[Madbadger98]

Would I be able to grow out in a 29g for the time being? They're all about 3" now and I'm wanting to get them into a planted tank without problem so I would be able to do later and more frequent water changes on that tank until they were big enough

[Akili]

Take some time and watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXe3VKh7qF8

[Madbadger98]

Actually watching that exact video as we speak

[discuspaul]

Would I be able to grow out in a 29g for the time being? They're all about 3" now and I'm wanting to get them into a planted tank without problem so I would be able to do later and more frequent water changes on that tank until they were big enough

Yes, you should definitely grow them out in that 29 gal, bare-bottom, and do large daily wcs, until they get to over 4", preferably 4.5" or more, before placing them in the planted 55 gal.

[Madbadger98]

That's what I'll probably do then grow them out in the 29 and then transfer them to the 55

[DISCUS STU]

I have a very similar planted, sand tank set up. That having been said, it would ONLY recommend it for fully grown Discus, not growouts. Growouts will probably only get sick in a non bb setup, as they did repeatedly in this setup. It was an experiment that failed as I had never raised adolescent fish in a non bb setup, at least not very recently.

I have numerous Cardinals and Black Tetras, not Neons as they will croak at Discus temps. and do 50% water changes about every three days, which is very low by some of the standards of the people on this forum.

I wouldn't recommend a planted, non bb tank for someone just getting into this. 92584

[Phillydubs]

Take it from another guy with a well stocked (over) 55... Unless you are willing to bust your hump you are asking for disaster...

I wouldn't suggest it... Bare bottom 5 discus you could maybe manage if they were all adults and even then you would need to be doing 3 water changes a week...

[Akili]

Would I be able to grow out in a 29g for the time being? They're all about 3" now and I'm wanting to get them into a planted tank without problem so I would be able to do later and more frequent water changes on that tank until they were big enough


That's what I'll probably do then grow them out in the 29 and then transfer them to the 55

Since they are going to be 3 inch ones and housed in a 29 gallon tank then the best thing to do is to do Water changes everyday (like 50% to 100 %) . As they grow in size more frequent water changes will be required till you move them to the 55.

[Madbadger98]

Okay cool I'm going to probably pay the difference for some bigger ones and just get them like that to avoid the problems. And I'm going to do a water change every 3 days on mine and see if that works out for me

[Madbadger98]

I have a very similar planted, sand tank set up. That having been said, it would ONLY recommend it for fully grown Discus, not growouts. Growouts will probably only get sick in a non bb setup, as they did repeatedly in this setup. It was an experiment that failed as I had never raised adolescent fish in a non bb setup, at least not very recently.

I have numerous Cardinals and Black Tetras, not Neons as they will croak at Discus temps. and do 50% water changes about every three days, which is very low by some of the standards of the people on this forum.

I wouldn't recommend a planted, non bb tank for someone just getting into this. 92584

Are those In a 55?

[Akili]

Okay cool I'm going to probably pay the difference for some bigger ones and just get them like that to avoid the problems. And I'm going to do a water change every 3 days on mine and see if that works out for me Every 3 days is Not enough.

[Madbadger98]

Everyday is out of the picture as it's just not do able for me. But even if I buy bigger fish?

[Akili]

Everyday is out of the picture as it's just not do able for me. But even if I buy bigger fish?If that is the case, you will just have to do bigger water changes every 3 days for growing out . Now if you get Adults then that can workout by not doing daily water changes.

[Madbadger98]

I would do 75% every three days when I do or to the base of the canister filters intakes and then if I get bigger I would do Sunday Wednesday and Friday

[DISCUS STU]

Are those In a 55?

Yes, these are in a 55 gal. With 2 Farlowellas, which have become pests for the Discus's slime coat, Cardinal & Black Tetras, Sterbai Corys, One Gold Nugget Pleco, and some Clown Plecos, and some Rams.

I would not do this with grow outs, only adult Discus.

[Filip]

Yes, these are in a 55 gal. With 2 Farlowellas, which have become pests for the Discus's slime coat, Cardinal & Black Tetras, Sterbai Corys, One Gold Nugget Pleco, and some Clown Plecos, and some Rams.

I would not do this with grow outs, only adult Discus.

Im interested in your experience Stu since i got similar tank and number of discus .I would like you to share experience on following questions:

For how long did you keep this discus stable with this routine ?
Did you encounter some health problems during that period e.g. pimples,scratching,darting, low appetite, white poop etc.?
What did you feed them and how many meals daily ?
What was your filtration?

Sorry if i bother you with this many questions , but im also looking for a bit easier long term routines once my discus are fully grown.

[DISCUS STU]

Im interested in your experience Stu since i got similar tank and number of discus .I would like you to share experience on following questions:

For how long did you keep this discus stable with this routine ?
Did you encounter some health problems during that period e.g. pimples,scratching,darting, low appetite, white poop etc.?
What did you feed them and how many meals daily ?
What was your filtration?

Sorry if i bother you with this many questions , but im also looking for a bit easier long term routines once my discus are fully grown.

Hey Filip,

Not a bother.

For how long did you keep this discus stable with this routine?
This is a well established tank of many years, more than 10 years.

Did you encounter some health problems during that period e.g. pimples,scratching,darting, low appetite, white poop etc.?
No real health issues, the tank and the fish are healthy. The health problems I had were with juvenile Discus that I tried to raise in this tank. This led to internal bacterial issues that needed to be treated with antibiotics in a hospital tank. As a result some of those fish did not reach their full growth potential but are otherwise healthy fish now.

What did you feed them and how many meals daily ?
I generally feed in the morning and at night, twice a day. My usual routine is turkey heart (day 1), Tetra Bits or Discus Bio Gold (day 2), and fdtw (freeze dried tubifex worms) (day 3), sometimes flake foods.

What was your filtration?
Water changes are 50% every 2-3 days, tap water using Prime. Filtration is two Eheim 2215's in circuit. The first has all the mechanical stuff, noodles, sponge, filter floss (this filter is cleaned once a month), the second filter is full of Eheim Ehfisubstrat bio substrate. Coming off of this is a Turbo Twist 3x UV at the last stage. The plants, two Radican Swords and Vallisneria also help. The sand is local Hudson River sand.

[Madbadger98]

That's actually helping me too. I'm actually gonna do two canisters similar to that but a smaller fish load and a little bigger maybe 3.5" range and same water changes and monitor there feeding and if a better water change needs to be done or an off schedule wc then I'd do one

[Filip]

Hey Filip,

Not a bother.

For how long did you keep this discus stable with this routine?
This is a well established tank of many years, more than 10 years.

Did you encounter some health problems during that period e.g. pimples,scratching,darting, low appetite, white poop etc.?
No real health issues, the tank and the fish are healthy. The health problems I had were with juvenile Discus that I tried to raise in this tank. This led to internal bacterial issues that needed to be treated with antibiotics in a hospital tank. As a result some of those fish did not reach their full growth potential but are otherwise healthy fish now.

What did you feed them and how many meals daily ?
I generally feed in the morning and at night, twice a day. My usual routine is turkey heart (day 1), Tetra Bits or Discus Bio Gold (day 2), and fdtw (freeze dried tubifex worms) (day 3), sometimes flake foods.

What was your filtration?
Water changes are 50% every 2-3 days, tap water using Prime. Filtration is two Eheim 2215's in circuit. The first has all the mechanical stuff, noodles, sponge, filter floss (this filter is cleaned once a month), the second filter is full of Eheim Ehfisubstrat bio substrate. Coming off of this is a Turbo Twist 3x UV at the last stage. The plants, two Radican Swords and Vallisneria also help. The sand is local Hudson River sand.


TFS your experience Stu . i just might try the same routine once my discus are adults and i stop feeding them large portions of food.
BTW. you thought me something else here.
i have always thought FDTW as a product made out of Tubifex worms are notorious for carring pathogens in them , but yet you feed them with no issues.
Are here other members that feed FDTW on discus?

[Filip]

That's actually helping me too. I'm actually gonna do two canisters similar to that but a smaller fish load and a little bigger maybe 3.5" range and same water changes and monitor there feeding and if a better water change needs to be done or an off schedule wc then I'd do one

Madbadger, we are talking about fully grown discus here,at least older than 18 months.
3.5 inch you plan to buy are still youngsters , and as Stu stated in his experience, they might experience illnes with this WC routine .
You need at least 90% every second day with them until they reach adulthood.

[Madbadger98]

Okay about what size would be considered adult hood? I've heard 4" and I've heard 6". I'm just looking for a size that will allow me to make it the easiest to start

[strawberryblonde]

Hi Malek.

4" is a sub-adult discus. At that size they still require the heavy duty water changes and several feedings a day.

6" is what I consider to be the minimal size for an adult discus. Many choose to stop the constant water changes and to reduce the feeding schedule at this point. And it's fine to do that.

I choose to continue daily or every other day water changes when they reach 6" because I've learned that they will continue to grow to much larger over the course of the next year of life if I keep up with the routine.

The thing with discus is that you have to be committed to doing whatever it takes to keep your discus tank healthy. For some that's once a week water changes, for others that's every other day (for adult discus) water changes. A lot depends on the size of the tank, the quality and composition of your water and the quality and health of the discus you purchase.

For me, I think it's probably best to just create a good setup for super easy water changes right from the start, and then to commit to doing those water changes. Discus aren't hard to keep healthy, but they do have more stringent needs than other freshwater tropicals.

[DISCUS STU]

...i have always thought FDTW as a product made out of Tubifex worms are notorious for carring pathogens in them , but yet you feed them with no issues.
Are here other members that feed FDTW on discus?

Once upon a time when I was younger Discus keeper (lol) I used to feed live tubifex and saw great results and even greater disasters as a result. I have not fed this since sometime in the early 90's, even if I could easily find them anymore, which I can't. Very few lfs's around here carry live food anymore, the few lfs's that are left.

Though I will state this w/o much fear of contradiction :confused: The freeze dried tubifex worms I feed should be free of pathogens as they are a completely dried, flash frozen product lacking any moisture to carry pathogens. I'm sure there may be someone out there reading this that may have something more to offer on this and possibly even a study!

I find them to be accepted even more readily than the FDBW I was feeding from the same provider, California Blackworm (yes, I know they're not a sponsor here), and they're a little less expensive also.

[Filip]

Once upon a time when I was younger Discus keeper (lol) I used to feed live tubifex and saw great results and even greater disasters as a result. I have not fed this since sometime in the early 90's, even if I could easily find them anymore, which I can't. Very few lfs's around here carry live food anymore, the few lfs's that are left.

Though I will state this w/o much fear of contradiction :confused: The freeze dried tubifex worms I feed should be free of pathogens as they are a completely dried, flash frozen product lacking any moisture to carry pathogens. I'm sure there may be someone out there reading this that may have something more to offer on this and possibly even a study!

I find them to be accepted even more readily than the FDBW I was feeding from the same provider, California Blackworm (yes, I know they're not a sponsor here), and they're a little less expensive also.

I got interested in FDTW feeding because I cant find FDBW where I live. FdTW are the only type available here.
I have also fed live TW in the past,and I know that they are Russian roulette experience :)
But I'm still scared even from the dried cubes :) that is why I ask this question.
This is encouraging, but I would still like to here If others have something else to say on this subject.
I was also thinking to post a thread on this in food section,to see more views on this.
Thank you Stu.

[Filip]

Okay about what size would be considered adult hood? I've heard 4" and I've heard 6". I'm just looking for a size that will allow me to make it the easiest to start


Size is more a subjective matter depending on many factors such as genes, health,food,water quality your experience and many other variables.
I would consider their age as a better and more accurate pinpoint for you than their size.

So IMO if you buy 3.5 incharge discus they should be about 4-5 months age(more/less)
They grow rapidly until 10 months(more/less) and still grow slower and reach full adulthood with 18 months(again more/less ).

So IMO, if you buy 3-4 inchers,go for at least 10 months of heavy duty routine, and after that you can slowly start cutting Wc s and meals.

[DISCUS STU]

Size is more a subjective matter depending on many factors such as genes, health,food,water quality your experience and many other variables.
I would consider their age as a better and more accurate pinpoint for you than their size.

So IMO if you buy 3.5 incharge discus they should be about 4-5 months age(more/less)
They grow rapidly until 10 months(more/less) and still grow slower and reach full adulthood with 18 months(again more/less ).

So IMO, if you buy 3-4 inchers,go for at least 10 months of heavy duty routine, and after that you can slowly start cutting Wc s and meals.

Size and age have to be taken together. 6"+ inches under optimum conditions and the right genetics but of course not all adult Discus reach their full growth potential.

[Madbadger98]

So look for something around 10+ months healthy good size good shape and just keep up on my water?

[Filip]

So look for something around 10+ months healthy good size good shape and just keep up on my water?

I cant understand this question?

[Second Hand Pat]

...

I find them to be accepted even more readily than the FDBW I was feeding from the same provider, California Blackworm (yes, I know they're not a sponsor here), and they're a little less expensive also.

Stu, California Blackworm are actually a sponsor here http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?55-California-Blackworm-Co-Fresno-California

[Second Hand Pat]

I got interested in FDTW feeding because I cant find FDBW where I live. FdTW are the only type available here.
I have also fed live TW in the past,and I know that they are Russian roulette experience :)
But I'm still scared even from the dried cubes :) that is why I ask this question.
This is encouraging, but I would still like to here If others have something else to say on this subject.
I was also thinking to post a thread on this in food section,to see more views on this.
Thank you Stu.

Filip, you might consider checking this Al (brewmaster15). He sells FD blackworms and might be able to ship them to your location.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

So look for something around 10+ months healthy good size good shape and just keep up on my water?

Hi Malek and welcome to SimplyDiscus. I would suggest looking to the SimplyDiscus sponsors for your discus. Our sponsors have be vetted by Al for quality healthy fish. I would suggest targeting in the 5.5 inch range. Fish this size should be the six to ten month range depending on strain (some strains grow slower). I would also suggest doing as many water changes as possible until your fish are fully settled, eating and you are comfortable with them.
Pat

[Madbadger98]

I'm actually good friends with the new sponsor Dalatdiscus and all my fish will actually be through him. I'm going to look for the bigger

[Filip]

Filip, you might consider checking this Al (brewmaster15). He sells FD blackworms and might be able to ship them to your location.
Pat

Thanks Pat.
i doubt that Al can ship his product oversea in Europe , but ill try my chances and ask him anyway :).