why do breeders try to breed the communication bars out of the strain?

[Jack L]

subject is the question, i haven't found an answer searching, but i'm sure it has been asked/answered.

seems to me that the communication bars are something that make Ds more interesting/unique fish.

wondering if anyone knew why it is breed out of strains.

[Filip]

seems to me that the communication bars are something that make Ds more interesting/unique fish.

Nice question, Jack .
i also think that bars makes discus more unique and appealing and always liked strains with visible bars more .

[John_Nicholson]

It is all about what sells the best.

-john

[Ryan]

Why do we breed them taller? Why breed them solid colors?

It's about aesthetics. Different people like different things.

Bars are not unique to discus. Almost every South American cichlid has some form of barring. I'd say it's probably more unique to see a discus without it, than with it.

[Jack L]

what other fish have bars that turn on an off like that if you don't mind sharing?

what I have noticed with the blue diamond is that instead of bars, the entire fish turns dark.

[Ryan]

Heros (severums), Mesonauta (festivums), several Geophagus species, a few of the Krobia types, and to some extent Satanoperca are all South American cichlid genera that use vertical bars as communication, camouflage, and stress coloration. As with discus, the behavior happens less as they reach maturity.

[pitdogg2]

what other fish have bars that turn on an off like that if you don't mind sharing?

Red Terrors, Tri-mac's, Black Belts there is a long list....

[Jack L]

festivums
these look like ones i've seen in wild videos of Discus in nature??

besides severums,....of all the others mentioned, i googled them, i haven't seen them much if ever. wasn't aware, thanks

[mee]

I would add some Malawi cichlids, victorian cichlids, and tagnikya cichlids to the list that can turn on and off bars at will. Don't ask me for names, as I have
been away from that world for 5 years.

[jmf3460]

festivums
these look like ones i've seen in wild videos of Discus in nature??

besides severums,....of all the others mentioned, i googled them, i haven't seen them much if ever. wasn't aware, thanks

festivums are often seen with discus in the wild. I kept a group of 5 for a few years and they grew to large sized, adult discus size. they are a lovely fish and have good personalities but they got really aggressive and ended up killing each other off before I sold them. I did get a pair of festivum, I have a thread on them here http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?116193-SA-Biotope-(poor-mans-discus)-My-version/page3

I do not recommend festivum with discus. they are voracious eaters compared to discus, and mine were too aggressive. they did well with my l. dorsigera.

by the way all the genus laetacara, nannacara, guianacara and aquiedens also show stress bar

[DISCUS STU]

As above it's about aesthetics and personal taste. The communication bars often communicate to me that the fish is stressed or may be sick and that I need to do something to help it, though it can often just be there when a less dominant fish is lower in the pecking order and is more stressed as a result.

The stress bars can be helpful to me as one indicator that action need to be taken. I've often had Pigeon Bloods (no stress bars to this strain) that seemed relatively fine only to find that they were unexpectedly dead or dying and that it was a little too late to do much for them, especially after they died (lol).

[plecocicho]

Its asian aesthetic, no bars and intensive colours, some of this strains are pejoretevely called candy discus. The resurgence of wild discus keepers is the direct result of dominance of this strains. Stress bars is a wrong defenition, mood bars is more correct. Dark bars, dots, lines and combination of them are species specific and act as our face expressions or tail postures in dogs. Stressed discus show bars as a sign of subdominance, ie dont hurt me, i am not challenging you, i dont feel well. Wild discus show full spectre of bar attenuations and there you can see a rich spectrume of their communications through bars.

[Jack L]

festivums are often seen with discus in the wild. I kept a group of 5 for a few years and they grew to large sized, adult discus size. they are a lovely fish and have good personalities but they got really aggressive and ended up killing each other off before I sold them. I did get a pair of festivum, I have a thread on them here http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?116193-SA-Biotope-(poor-mans-discus)-My-version/page3

I do not recommend festivum with discus. they are voracious eaters compared to discus, and mine were too aggressive. they did well with my l. dorsigera.

by the way all the genus laetacara, nannacara, guianacara and aquiedens also show stress bar

went through thread, nice.

did they show communication bars much?

that was your tank your wilds are in now isn't it?

[Jack L]

As above it's about aesthetics and personal taste. The communication bars often communicate to me that the fish is stressed or may be sick and that I need to do something to help it, though it can often just be there when a less dominant fish is lower in the pecking order and is more stressed as a result.

The stress bars can be helpful to me as one indicator that action need to be taken. I've often had Pigeon Bloods (no stress bars to this strain) that seemed relatively fine only to find that they were unexpectedly dead or dying and that it was a little too late to do much for them, especially after they died (lol).

it is amazing to me how they turn them on and off so quickly.

[Jack L]

Its asian aesthetic, no bars and intensive colours, some of this strains are pejoretevely called candy discus. The resurgence of wild discus keepers is the direct result of dominance of this strains. Stress bars is a wrong defenition, mood bars is more correct. Dark bars, dots, lines and combination of them are species specific and act as our face expressions or tail postures in dogs. Stressed discus show bars as a sign of subdominance, ie dont hurt me, i am not challenging you, i dont feel well. Wild discus show full spectre of bar attenuations and there you can see a rich spectrume of their communications through bars.

w/ the bars communicating so many different things, it is a little hard to know what the situation is, but i do see a lot of barring when its food time, and that isn't a stressful time. expect maybe defense of food.

[Kyla]

i have an angel that bars up when i approach the tank to feed and esp when i stick FDBW to the glass its bars can go super dark while it watches excitedly. bars are not always a sign of discomfort

[Second Hand Pat]

w/ the bars communicating so many different things, it is a little hard to know what the situation is, but i do see a lot of barring when its food time, and that isn't a stressful time. expect maybe defense of food.

Pecking order :)
Pat

[mee]

One of the all time best cichlid bar displays IMHO is Zaire Frontosa aka Zaire Gibberosa. With them the thick black bars remain almost contantly (catch them sleeping they turn light violet) but the white spaces beteen the bars can flash from light blue to deep blue to purple tones very quickly. and if you look close their are thin deep blue lines edging their black bars. Simply stunning in the flesh.

[jmf3460]

went through thread, nice. did they show communication bars much? that was your tank your wilds are in now isn't it?

yea they were wild festivum also from john and they showed their bars just as often as my wild discus do. Yes that is the same tank my wild discus are in. the festivum came first and were a good fish to learn about water changes to prepare for discus. they got really aggressive and I ended up selling them to other hobbiest as singles or doubles and one confirmed pair that has since spawned 4 times.

[aquadon2222]

A lot of people prefer the non-bar look, just a preference like small eyes and high fins. When I started the hobby I preferred the domestic bright colors and no bars, but I've gravitated more towards the wild look w/ bars.
Fwiw someone told me that they do it with tiny muscles that tilt their scales at a different angle where the bars are and they look darker, like a cat puffing up its fur. I think its primarily a camouflage mechanism to blend in w/ the vertical flora of their native waters when threatened and/or a "don't mess with me" signal to other discus, but I don't know that for sure.

[mee]

If I am not mistaken it is their cells contracting and expanding that causes the color change. Basically the color is always there, but as the cell expands changes from a tiny invisible to the naked eye dot to a larger dot that when combined with many creates a full picture, it is essentially muscle contractions/expansion, and there also may be some change of angle for visibility as well I am unaware of.

Don't take what I said as gospel for cichlids, but I know this is how color change works with many aquatic species.

[DISCUS STU]

i have an angel that bars up when i approach the tank to feed and esp when i stick FDBW to the glass its bars can go super dark while it watches excitedly. bars are not always a sign of discomfort

Angels may use and display barring differently than Discus, these are two separate, distinct species regardless of the fact that they are related. My Discus normally display barring when stressed, including environmental stress. My Altum Angels often display pale barring and show stronger patterns when they are less stressed and better environmentally adjusted.