Using Carbon in filters

[Royalbluewilds420]

Question, Why are some people against using filter cartridges or filter media that has carbon in it?
What are the negative effects to the water quality?

[MD.David]

Carbon removes trace minerals and elements that the discus require for healthy well-being.
Never use carbon for any longer then a few days at most, this maybe used to remove some residual elements of meds.
But more water changes would be better instead of carbon.

[Royalbluewilds420]

Does lava rock have carbon in it?

[MD.David]

I don't beleive so. Many have used lava rock as a source of growing beneficial bacteria, years ago lava rock use to be the rave, now its some type of manufactured "biomedia", most of us that have been at it for a while now just use Hydro sponges.
I am under the beleif system that most Hang on the back filters are usually a breeding ground for unwanted critters, unless very well maintained.
I am partial to my sponge filter.
But many others love HOB or canister filters, I guess it's just what you become use to and maintain better.


Does lava rock have carbon in it?

[SNap0283]

Since discus require large and frequent water changes carbon is not needed and just becomes a waste of money. The point is to not let any toxin build up to the point that it needs to be removed.

[HappyFace]

I've have a 200g tank that I recently converted to a discus tank. It was well established and has a drip system delivering fresh city water into the sump at a rate of 5gph and there's a drain line that drains out the excess water. There is a carbon filter attached to the 1/4" hose before the water enters my sump. This ensures that the city water gets prefiltered with carbon to remove all chlorine. I change this filter out every week. So far I have had the discus 2 weeks and they are all doing great. Are you saying that I must supplement their water with minerals due to the carbon filter? Their water is already hard. What do you recommend me to add to my tank? Not using carbon is not an option. I do not want to change my existing setup but I don't mind supplementing the water. I have a dosing tank I can use to dose the water.

The sump and tank themselves do not have any carbon filtration just incoming water. The sump is 85g half of which is bioballs and matala mats. I have 3 fine sponge filters similar to fluvals polishing pads that catch all waste before it reaches the matala mats and bioballs and I change those out daily.

[pitdogg2]

I've have a 200g tank that I recently converted to a discus tank. It was well established and has a drip system delivering fresh city water into the sump at a rate of 5gph and there's a drain line that drains out the excess water. There is a carbon filter attached to the 1/4" hose before the water enters my sump. This ensures that the city water gets prefiltered with carbon to remove all chlorine. I change this filter out every week. So far I have had the discus 2 weeks and they are all doing great. Are you saying that I must supplement their water with minerals due to the carbon filter? Their water is already hard. What do you recommend me to add to my tank? Not using carbon is not an option. I do not want to change my existing setup but I don't mind supplementing the water. I have a dosing tank I can use to dose the water.

The sump and tank themselves do not have any carbon filtration just incoming water. The sump is 85g half of which is bioballs and matala mats. I have 3 fine sponge filters similar to fluvals polishing pads that catch all waste before it reaches the matala mats and bioballs and I change those out daily.

If you city uses Chlorine and ammonia which bonds to make chloramine then carbon does nothing. Most cities now use the chloramine as it stays in solution much longer all the way to your tap. I'd check with the water dept. to see just what they do use that way you can make an informed decision on how to handle it.

There is no need to supplement any minerals IMHO

[HappyFace]

If you city uses Chlorine and ammonia which bonds to make chloramine then carbon does nothing. Most cities now use the chloramine as it stays in solution much longer all the way to your tap. I'd check with the water dept. to see just what they do use that way you can make an informed decision on how to handle it.

There is no need to supplement any minerals IMHO

I was under the mistaken impression that chlorine nutralizes all chlorine and chlorine byproducts that's what the activated carbon filter I purchased says. I contacted my city right now and left a message for the public works director. Hopefully he will get back with me and let me know what chemicals are used.

I do know our water is underground, comes from 7 different wells around the city. I also know that this past year our water smells extremely strong of chlorine. I was concerned with well water that there would be too many minerals plus the chlorine would require some filtration. That's why I setup carbon prefiltration.

[Las Vegas]

Since I use R/O water and do 50% wc every 2nd to 3rd day, I don't need carbon filtration. Though there is a carbon filtration canister used in the R/O System. My tank filtration seems to provide enough bacteria and the fine filter captures enough waste product where I clean it whenever it gets brown with yuk. I haven't had a discus go bad in over a year. That's the time I started raising Discus again. I used to have angelfish before that in the same tank. So, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I am prepping a new tank, I want to set up a water drip system so I don't have to do water changes. This will be my first time with that type of water system.

[HappyFace]

I found my city water treatment info on the net. Our city uses Chlorine CL2 0.2-2 ppt.

Wikipedia states that activated carbon filtration is effective at removing chlorine:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_filtering

Also chemicals byproducts in our tap water due to water treatment are haloacetic acid and trihalomethanes.
Here I found articles that activated carbon removes both of these chemicals:
http://www.waterrf.org/ExecutiveSummaryLibrary/91041F_2825_profile.pdf
http://cfpub.epa.gov/si/si_public_record_Report.cfm?dirEntryId=29716

We also have 111ppt TCP in our water. It is a soil fumigant, used as paint varnish remover and a degreaser. We are an agricultural community so pesticide/soil treatment chemicals are in our underground water supply. Carbon also removes this:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1018364712000468

[HappyFace]

Since I use R/O water and do 50% wc every 2nd to 3rd day, I don't need carbon filtration. Though there is a carbon filtration canister used in the R/O System. My tank filtration seems to provide enough bacteria and the fine filter captures enough waste product where I clean it whenever it gets brown with yuk. I haven't had a discus go bad in over a year. That's the time I started raising Discus again. I used to have angelfish before that in the same tank. So, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I am prepping a new tank, I want to set up a water drip system so I don't have to do water changes. This will be my first time with that type of water system.

I highly recommend the drip system. You will love it.

I bought a meter from Key Instruments that regulates exactly how many gallons are going into the tank each hour. The only downside is if you don't have a sump then you will be introducing water in the tank that is not heated and you may experience cold spots. We have our water trickling into the sump where I have 3 heaters and it gets mixed up before going to the tank.

[DISCUS STU]

Discus require more than average water changes so carbon isn't really necessary anyway. Once I stopped using the expensive carbon additives like Chemi-Zorb and Chemipure I found the various issues I used to have like HTH and Lateral Line, pretty much disappeared.

Carbon and carbon additives can be deceptive because you think you have a lot covered with them but don't really know when they're exhausted and may also be adding toxins back into the water, they do this, or so I've read.

[mee]

I found my city water treatment info on the net. Our city uses Chlorine CL2 0.2-2 ppt.

Wikipedia states that activated carbon filtration is effective at removing chlorine:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_filtering

Also chemicals byproducts in our tap water due to water treatment are haloacetic acid and trihalomethanes.
Here I found articles that activated carbon removes both of these chemicals:
http://www.waterrf.org/ExecutiveSummaryLibrary/91041F_2825_profile.pdf
http://cfpub.epa.gov/si/si_public_record_Report.cfm?dirEntryId=29716

We also have 111ppt TCP in our water. It is a soil fumigant, used as paint varnish remover and a degreaser. We are an agricultural community so pesticide/soil treatment chemicals are in our underground water supply. Carbon also removes this:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1018364712000468



I realize your post was awhile ago, but if I am reading it right it seems you are lumping Chlorine and Chloramines together. Chloramines are much more complex, and actually bond Chlorine and Ammonia together, which is creepy considering the ammonia and chlorine together usually make deadly gas... but it is considered "safe" for people, however Chloramines are very bad for fish. To the best of my knowledge Carbon does not take care of Chloramines, you need a conditioner which does and not all do. Prime and most the newer ones out do, but seriously check, the bottle. Personally I use carbon in one of my canisters, and will add it to the other soon. I find it hard to believe with daily water changes the carbon is removing minerals fast enough to harm the fish. I like carbon for one reason.. reduced smell. The tank I use carbon in stay's notably fresher smelling. It is some high grade Japanese carbon in it's own sealed bag, and seems to last longer than most carbon products.

[DJW]

Mee, I have read that carbon breaks the chlorine apart from the ammonia, then removes the chlorine, leaving the ammonia. The Prime detoxifies the ammonia and the biofilter consumes it. There are some old threads here about this, I'll see if I can find them.

[mee]

Mee, I have read that carbon breaks the chlorine apart from the ammonia, then removes the chlorine, leaving the ammonia. The Prime detoxifies the ammonia and the biofilter consumes it. There are some old threads here about this, I'll see if I can find them.

interesting. Did not know that... or maybe I forgot :D