Freeze dried Tubifex cubes

[mkelly66]

Last week I went to the store and bought what I thought were FDBW cubes. What I realized yesterday was that they were actually FD Tubifex. Its a small container so I will just finish it and then order some of Al's FDBW cubes. My guys are loving them are they at least getting some nutrition out of them? I do feed live black worms as well but I would NEVER feed live tubifex. They also get cobalt discus flakes, frozen mysis and blood worms.
Mike Kelly

[MD.David]

Depending on the manufacture, it could give your discus internal intestinal parasites.
I have read many posts about this.
I know a LFS, they always have discus with pinch heads, dark, slime coat disease, anchor worms, etc. And they feed there discus tubiflex worms as well.
I'm not sure how tubiflex worms contribute to poor health or if at all. But I have read many posts that talk about tubiflex worms are not the greatest food for discus.
I'm not sure what I would do, maybe ask other more senior members that possibly a deworming regiment would be in order after a few weeks of the AFDBW.


Last week I went to the store and bought what I thought were FDBW cubes. What I realized yesterday was that they were actually FD Tubifex. Its a small container so I will just finish it and then order some of Al's FDBW cubes. My guys are loving them are they at least getting some nutrition out of them? I do feed live black worms as well but I would NEVER feed live tubifex. They also get cobalt discus flakes, frozen mysis and blood worms.
Mike Kelly

[Akili]

Pathogens can not survive the freeze drying process.Freeze drying is done at minus 20 degrees Celsius (-4 deg Fahrenheit)

[MD.David]

Akili,
I'm not really sure about validity of this comment regarding "Freeze Dried temp and the sterilization process."
I know Al (the owner of SD), is on record here saying "I wouldnt give my worst enemies discus tubifex worms".
I'm sure there is a good reason why Al has said this.
I too would be interested in more information.


Pathogens can not survive the freeze drying process.Freeze drying is done at minus 20 degrees Celsius (-4 deg Fahrenheit)

[Second Hand Pat]

I have read where FD tubifex worms can make discus sick also but do not have any sources. :(
Pat

[Akili]

Akili,
I'm not really sure about validity of this comment regarding "Freeze Dried temp and the sterilization process."
I know Al (the owner of SD), is on record here saying "I wouldnt give my worst enemies discus tubifex worms".
I'm sure there is a good reason why Al has said this.
I too would be interested in more information.I do believe that is in reference to live tubifex.

[Wes]

For as much effort and cost and time we put into our discus. I stay away from tubiflex worms ,freeze dried, or in any other forms.

[DJW]

I avoid freeze dried tubifex not because I think pathogens survive the FD process, but because tubifex are grown in sewage, which means the worms have probably been eating toxins. They are what they eat.

[Akili]

I avoid freeze dried tubifex not because I think pathogens survive the FD process, but because tubifex are grown in sewage, which means the worms have probably been eating toxins. They are what they eat.A very good reason,I can buy that!

[SNap0283]

I do wonder if the tubifex hype is against live worms and not the FD version and we have somehow just assumed it would translate when it would not. Has anyone actually fed FD tubifex and had a problem, rather than speculation and "I was told" and "I read"??


With all the tests people try on this site how has someone not divided a spawn in half and fed FDBW to half and FDTBW to the other half and see where you land in a year....

[DJW]

Some companies, like Hikari, sterilize before freeze drying. Others do not.

In microbiology you revive freeze-fried bacteria.

"BACTERIA AND ALGAE
The preferred method for long-term preservation of bacteria and algae is freeze-drying; however, some bacteria do not survive freeze-drying well and are frozen instead. For freeze dried cultures, using a single tube of the recommended media (5 to 6 mL), withdraw approximately 0.5 to 1.0 mL with a Pasteur or 1.0 mL pipette. Use this to rehydrate the entire pellet, and transfer the entire suspension back into the broth tube and mix well. The last few drops of this suspension may also be transferred to an agar slant. Alternatively, algal cultures must be initiated on agar plates. Please note that anaerobic bacterial cultures must be rehydrated in an anaerobic environment; the viability of the cells decrease rapidly if the vial is rehydrated in an oxygenic environment.

Incubate cultures under the appropriate conditions. Given proper treatment and conditions, most freeze-dried cultures will grow out in a few days. However, some may exhibit a prolonged lag period and should be given twice the normal incubation time before discarding as nonviable."

Source:
https://www.atcc.org/~/media/rfdc.ashx

See also:

http://academic.pgcc.edu/~kroberts/web/recit/rec12.htm

[Filip]

I was wondering the same here and I know from other threads here on SD that member Discus Stu uses them for long time with no issues.
But I'm still scared to use them because of the different brands of tubifex that uses different technology for the prices.So far I would be only confident with the ones Discus Stu uses.

[Filip]

I ment different technology for the freeze- dry proces up in my post.

[DanCBW]

I avoid freeze dried tubifex not because I think pathogens survive the FD process, but because tubifex are grown in sewage, which means the worms have probably been eating toxins. They are what they eat.

In the old days when Freeze Dried Tubifex came from Taiwan, some still do. They were harvested from run off ditches and river banks.
The Freeze Dried that come from Tianjin, China are actually Commercially Pond raised as are the Bloodworms that come from the same area.
In fact some of the Farms raise both Tubifex and Bloodworms on the same farm.

Dan
Aquatic Foods Blackworm Co.

[rickztahone]

I do wonder if the tubifex hype is against live worms and not the FD version and we have somehow just assumed it would translate when it would not. Has anyone actually fed FD tubifex and had a problem, rather than speculation and "I was told" and "I read"??


With all the tests people try on this site how has someone not divided a spawn in half and fed FDBW to half and FDTBW to the other half and see where you land in a year....

To what end? If I can simply avoid a food that is contreversial, a food that is also lacking in nutrients, why risk it? I really see no reason to feed tubifex worms if it can be avoided. There is so much more other good food out there.

[Filip]

To what end? If I can simply avoid a food that is contreversial, a food that is also lacking in nutrients, why risk it? I really see no reason to feed tubifex worms if it can be avoided. There is so much more other good food out there.

I know that live tubifex is loaded with proteins ,its proven that it works wonders on growing fish and its devoured in seconds from all freshwater fish.
I presume that FD version would have similar protein nutrition.
Cheap price and its availability are also good reason for at least to consider it as an option.

I personally don't use it on my discus because of all the controversy about it,but I would consider it as an available and cheap option if i have read or heard other members positive experiences.

[SNap0283]

To what end? If I can simply avoid a food that is contreversial, a food that is also lacking in nutrients, why risk it? I really see no reason to feed tubifex worms if it can be avoided. There is so much more other good food out there.

What if its all just an "old wives tale"? What if the same tale was started 30 years ago about blackworms and we all just believed it without testing it, we would be missing out on one of the great foods available to us. I just never like to believe things that someone heard from someone that read it in a book written by someone who was told it back when they were a kid.

Im not saying they are good or they are bad, im only saying I don't know. And id like to hear if anyone has any first hand experience long term with them?

[rickztahone]

What if its all just an "old wives tale"? What if the same tale was started 30 years ago about blackworms and we all just believed it without testing it, we would be missing out on one of the great foods available to us. I just never like to believe things that someone heard from someone that read it in a book written by someone who was told it back when they were a kid.

Im not saying they are good or they are bad, im only saying I don't know. And id like to hear if anyone has any first hand experience long term with them?

You are a vet of the forum, more so than me. You know as well as I do that we have members that come through here that can be relied upon to give their honest opinion and expriences. Over the years, I have heard from members that I value here that tubifex need to be avoided. I don't question it, because I trust these members. Now, if a new member said something like this and that member was the only one saying it, then I wouldn't take it at face value.

At the end of the day, we all choose to do what we like with our money and livestock, I am simply stating why I would not take a risk with mine.

[MD.David]

I believe what Snap is saying is its good to question things and do research. This is a good ideology, this is what makes us smarter, makes us strive for betterness, brighter and more practical solutions.
But I can see the other side as well, more experienced members, keepers, and breeders alike are socially responsible to provide the best fool proof information on a public forum such as SimplyDiscus, to better help more juvenile discus keepers and beginners.


What if its all just an "old wives tale"? What if the same tale was started 30 years ago about blackworms and we all just believed it without testing it, we would be missing out on one of the great foods available to us. I just never like to believe things that someone heard from someone that read it in a book written by someone who was told it back when they were a kid.

Im not saying they are good or they are bad, im only saying I don't know. And id like to hear if anyone has any first hand experience long term with them?




You are a vet of the forum, more so than me. You know as well as I do that we have members that come through here that can be relied upon to give their honest opinion and expriences. Over the years, I have heard from members that I value here that tubifex need to be avoided. I don't question it, because I trust these members. Now, if a new member said something like this and that member was the only one saying it, then I wouldn't take it at face value.

At the end of the day, we all choose to do what we like with our money and livestock, I am simply stating why I would not take a risk with mine.

[gunnerschh2]

Iwould not use any food product from CHINA. Remember what they did to dog food,baby food, soaking cardboard in boric acid as a meat filler. Harry