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modealings
01-25-2016, 06:51 PM
So really quickly because the fish are currently nose-up sucking for air...

Just did a 80% wc. Used aged water in a barrel i got 3 days ago. Barrel is food grade and never had anything in it before. I rinsed in out and used it for a wc yesterday with no problem. I also just got rid of a bunch of african cichlids and bleached everything yesterday. Was as careful as I could be to rinse everything multiple times yesterday. Again no problems until right now.

After I did the wc, the fish started to swim near the top, gasping for air. Fins started to clamp. Breathing quite heavily. I watched this progressively go downhill, quickly netted them and put them in a nearby clean tank (with just tap water and Prime). Now they all continue to have mouths to the surface and breathing heavy.

There had to be some chemical that got in there somehow. I used all the same equipment as yesterday tho, after the bleaching. I tested my tap water and nothing out of the ordinary.

In the holding tank ive got a sponge filter, heater, airstone. Anything else to do? Im thinking it's now a waiting game to see which way this goes...

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
See above

2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).
Swimming near top sucking for air, turning darker with stress bars.

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
N/A


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
75 gal, 5 fish 4-6in

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
80-90% wc daily

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
BB running for 3 months

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
Just started this week. pH swing 0.5-0.7. aged 24 hrs.

8. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp _____86

- ph _____8.2

- ammonia reading ____0

- nitrite reading ____0

- nitrate reading ____10

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water ____x

- RO water ____


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
no

10. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

rickztahone
01-25-2016, 07:03 PM
There is definitely something in the water. Do you have carbon available in case it is something toxic? Do you have a clean tank and clean tap water you can throw them in to in the meantime? Make sure to run a lot of air right now as well. Max on the air pumps and more is better

modealings
01-25-2016, 07:07 PM
I transferred them to a clean tank with tap water treated with prime right away. Unfortunately I dont have carbon. Running an airstone + the sponge filter for aeration.

rickztahone
01-25-2016, 07:18 PM
I transferred them to a clean tank with tap water treated with prime right away. Unfortunately I dont have carbon. Running an airstone + the sponge filter for aeration.

Are you sure any possible contaminant could not have gotten in to that tank? You will have to retrace your steps. Do you think the BB is affected? You will need to save it if it is not, it will die on its own with nothing to produce waste.

modealings
01-25-2016, 07:33 PM
Thanks for your help Ricardo. OK so the fish have come down from the surface. Looking better. Probably not out of the woods but heading that way. Literally all this went down in <1hr.

I've retraced my steps. Cant think of anything but obviously something got in there. The fish are doing better now so it has to be something from the barrel, the equipment, or my hands. I'm also really surprised at how fast this happened and then turned around in the other tank (<1hr). Can the effects of a chemical come and go that fast? If this water hadnt been aged I'd be thinking microbubbles for sure right now.

modealings
01-26-2016, 07:17 AM
OK haha I was up half the night trying to figure out what happened and here's my fish clinic note with differential diagnosis:

Sx's: Fish flashing, rising to surface to suck air, fins clamped, turning dark.

Ddx:
1. I didnt add Prime to my aging barrel. In my ignorance I thought aging the water took care of all this but some searches show it chloramine doesnt go away with aging. Interestingly when I moved the fish over to the tap water that WAS treated with Prime then they recovered in an hr or so. Im still surprised a chemical poisoning can come and go this fast though. Anyone have any experience with this? I'm calling my water company today to ask about recent treatments (haha lots of time on my hands this week.)

2. Left over bleach from the sanitizing the day before. A possibility although I was very careful to rinse everything. I also used this equipment after the bleaching with no problems. But again per above, no Prime added so this combination could be an issue. Again per searching, I should have treated with double dose of prime after rinsing away the bleach.

3. Another chemical? Only thing I can think of is I threw some clothes in the dryer while the tank was draining and then added a dryer sheet. Haha would I win an award for the most unique way to kill a fish - death from dryer sheet chemicals?

4. Microbubbles. Very unlikely as I aged the water but the symptoms just fit. Anyway - last on my list.

Tx:
Moved to spare tank with tap water treated with prime. Added airstone, sponge filter, and heater.

Result:
All fish came down from surface in about 30-45min. Fins unclamped, better color. And most importantly, survived the night.

DonMD
01-26-2016, 07:26 AM
I'm glad to hear that the fish are recovering. I'd say definitely a chemical poisoning, and perhaps a combination of residual chlorine from the bleach (even a very small amount could have an effect, I think) and the chloramines from the tap water.

I have an aging barrel also but I never add dechlorinator to it. I used to add it, but after time the sides of the barrel would get very slimy. Now the chlorine in the water keeps the barrel clean. For over a year when I do water changes I add straight from the barrel, so my fish are indeed exposed to the chloramines (added to my water by water company), but as soon as I finish the w/c, I add Prime. Never had any issues doing it this way. I figure any irritation during the w/c from untreated city water would be short.

My guess is that there was residual bleach. Even though you rinsed it out well, I think if you let it air dry that would have helped the bleach evaporate.

Good luck, let us know how it works out. -Don

modealings
01-26-2016, 07:55 AM
Thanks Don, that seems like a good idea. Probably easier to control the prime dosing that way too. Haha so the guy at the lfs where i got these says he never treats his tap water because "the chlorine burns off all the parasites". Needless to say, I wont be going back there.

rickztahone
01-26-2016, 03:12 PM
I just recently started adding the SAFE to the water right before a WC. I used to do it as soon as I put the water in the barrel but started getting the dreaded "slime" in the barrel.

Chose to add it before a WC to let the untreated water work on the barrel. It worked, however, the reason I never liked doing it this way is because I have the worst memory of all time! I have to write myself a note on the barrel to add SAFE right before. Coincidentally enough, yesterday while doing my daily WC, I was at the sink rinsing pre-filters and I ran to the tank to add SAFE because I had forgotten!

Anyways, that should have been the first question I ask, because it tends to be one of the more common ones. I'm glad you figured it out and I hope your discus are back to normal.

modealings
01-26-2016, 06:53 PM
Thanks guys. Haha I think I'll write myself a note too! Anyway the fish are all back to normal today so I'll take it as a learning experience.

I called my water company today and they were quick to say the tap water is not aquarium safe. The next round of chloramine treatment is scheduled for Friday. I think I'll be double dosing after that for awhile...

rickztahone
01-26-2016, 07:15 PM
Thanks guys. Haha I think I'll write myself a note too! Anyway the fish are all back to normal today so I'll take it as a learning experience.

I called my water company today and they were quick to say the tap water is not aquarium safe. The next round of chloramine treatment is scheduled for Friday. I think I'll be double dosing after that for awhile...

It is weird that they would say that. Did you ask them if it was safe to drink? If it is safe to drink, it should be safe for fish to swim in it.

There are many people who lessen their WC routine in the colder months because of the water company adding chemicals.

modealings
01-26-2016, 07:52 PM
I just explained my situation and asked what type of chlorination they used bc I have an aquarium. I was put on hold and then told it is not suitable for aquariums bc it is treated with free chlorine. She then said this Friday they would be dosing with chloramine as well. After the current events going on in Flint maybe I should be asking if it's safe to drink. But my wife and I have a Brita filter so we should be fine haha...

rickztahone
01-27-2016, 01:06 PM
I just explained my situation and asked what type of chlorination they used bc I have an aquarium. I was put on hold and then told it is not suitable for aquariums bc it is treated with free chlorine. She then said this Friday they would be dosing with chloramine as well. After the current events going on in Flint maybe I should be asking if it's safe to drink. But my wife and I have a Brita filter so we should be fine haha...

Still, it is good to know. You can inform your family or friends that may not have a filtering system. Water management is a huge issue in our local communities, voice your concerns and they will take notice after a while.

modealings
01-27-2016, 03:25 PM
Will do. Thanks again.

brewmaster15
01-27-2016, 05:16 PM
I would assume from now on that they use chloramines in your water...aging will remove only chlorine...not chloramines.

Hth,
Al

modealings
01-28-2016, 10:22 AM
Thanks Al - I've got my reminder note to add prime on the barrel so hopefully this doesnt happen again!