High energy bill?

[HappyFace]

Can aquarium heaters cause a huge spike in energy consumption?

Our PGE bill last year at this time was $230.00. This year it is $570.00. Pge did raise their price 7% this year so that may affect our bill somewhat but our usage is much higher so the price hike cannot account for everything.

The only things we have changed since last year is the 200g is now heated. I have one 500w and two 300w heating the tank to 87 degrees faranheit. I turned it down to 83.5 degrees recently... and we got a 480g- however- I had a 150g aquarium setup in the same spot the 480 is and it had almost the same exact setup (bubbler, 1 powerhead, 2 canister filters, 2 led lights) but my new setup is more powerful.

To make matters worse, as some may people know there was a gas leak in lower CA that caused the gas company to raise all of our bills to help offset their costs. Our gas was typically $75-120.00 at this time for the last 15 years but this month it was $300. The only gas appliance we have is our heater so this isn't the fish's fault.

Our total energy bills this month were $870.00. We can't go solar, we don't qualify on multiple levels and I'm doing everything I can to conserve energy this side of going back to the 1800's.

[DJW]

You can calculate approximately what the heaters are costing. I don't know about PG&E but some power companies have a tiered rate. You would look at your power bill and find the cost per kilowatt hour at the highest tier, or just the standard rate.

Example:

Suppose you have 1100 watts of heater (500+300+300) that are on half the time. (Its easy to get a sense of how much they run if they are on a controller). Thats 550 watts per hour or .55 KWH.

Suppose the cost per KWH is $0.20 (typical for LA)

24 hours x 30.6 days x .55 = 404 KWH per month

404 x $.20 = $80.80 per month.

Dan

[HappyFace]

Thank you Dan for such an informative reply. It is definitely the heaters. I would say they are running 24 hours a day due to the drip system we have. I also had a 300w heater running in the 480g and I'm guessing that was running 24 hours a day too. I just unplugged that. Our koi don't need heat.

Im going to look into a couple of small solar panels and battery packs to put in our back yard where the city cant see them.

[Boyd Luth]

I live in Florida, and have the highest Electric Utility per KWhr. in the State ( Vero Beach ) I Styrofoam my tanks, and seal the tops with minimal gaps on top with glass, has helped in the winter. Hope this helps :-)

[Cosmo]

Impact of your heaters is largely determined by the ambient room temperature in which the tank is located. The colder the room, the more the heaters will run. If, like me, you have heaters in your storage tanks and they are in the basement - and it's cold outside, there's not much you can do about those :( Acrylic tanks retain heat better than glass tanks do. Another thought, if you recently had a smart electric meter installed, there are some locations where they have been caught programming them to overcharge - if they're setup okay, turn off all the electric you can during the day and you'll get cheaper energy at night. Our house is about 110 years old, so our energy bills are high too :(

If you have multiple heaters in your tank, insure they are slaved to a master temp controller so they all go on at once and off at once, otherwise, you'll have them turning on and off light Christmas tree lights all day and all night

I suspect you already knew all this though :p

[DJW]

This old house of mine has less insulation than my fish tanks have.

[brewmaster15]

Thank you Dan for such an informative reply. It is definitely the heaters. I would say they are running 24 hours a day due to the drip system we have. I also had a 300w heater running in the 480g and I'm guessing that was running 24 hours a day too. I just unplugged that. Our koi don't need heat.

Im going to look into a couple of small solar panels and battery packs to put in our back yard where the city cant see them.

Heidi, I have a thread here...

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?117188-An-Alternative-to-a-Generator-The-inverter

on setting up a battery powered back up.... It would be real easy set it up with a few solar panels on a large scale. Theres plenty of info out there on this.


hth,
al

[Las Vegas]

OMG! That was a huge swing in price change. I wouldn't be able to even handle that last year bill price let alone the current one. Is that the price of Discus? I'm getting a 75 gal tank set up with a 300 watt heater. I currently have a 25 gal setup that I use for my 4 discus. But my energy bill is still under $90 a month. Oh my, sorry to hear about that large unexpected bill Happyface. Well your young, you can still make plenty of money. Me, I'm old, depend on my pension, (and gamblimg) to make ends meet. Goodluck to you.

[Cosmo]

This old house of mine has less insulation than my fish tanks have.

lol, tell me about it :p

[HappyFace]

I live in Florida, and have the highest Electric Utility per KWhr. in the State ( Vero Beach ) I Styrofoam my tanks, and seal the tops with minimal gaps on top with glass, has helped in the winter. Hope this helps :-)

Great advise. Thank you Boyd. My tank is sealed tight but my sump has an open top. Maybe I can get styrofoam to put on top my sump to help conserve heat.

[HappyFace]

Impact of your heaters is largely determined by the ambient room temperature in which the tank is located. The colder the room, the more the heaters will run. If, like me, you have heaters in your storage tanks and they are in the basement - and it's cold outside, there's not much you can do about those :( Acrylic tanks retain heat better than glass tanks do. Another thought, if you recently had a smart electric meter installed, there are some locations where they have been caught programming them to overcharge - if they're setup okay, turn off all the electric you can during the day and you'll get cheaper energy at night. Our house is about 110 years old, so our energy bills are high too :(

If you have multiple heaters in your tank, insure they are slaved to a master temp controller so they all go on at once and off at once, otherwise, you'll have them turning on and off light Christmas tree lights all day and all night

I suspect you already knew all this though :p

Mine is glass :( I have the heaters all setup separate, not on a temp control. I feel more comfortable with it that way. If one heater goes out it's not a disaster the others 2 pick up the slack but if I set all the heaters to one controller and the controller goes bad then it could fry my tank or make it cold.

I started thinking about it and my husband began plugging his truck engine heater in 24 hours a day for the last month. I found out it's 1500w so his heater accounts for $160.00 of our bill this month.

[HappyFace]

Thank you Mark. The bills are really killing us. I haven't been working much for hte last few months due to rain and illness.

Your bill should not be that high with only one heater and you don't run a drip system like me where fresh cold water is entering into the sump 24/7 and needs to be heated.

[HappyFace]

Heidi, I have a thread here...

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?117188-An-Alternative-to-a-Generator-The-inverter

on setting up a battery powered back up.... It would be real easy set it up with a few solar panels on a large scale. Theres plenty of info out there on this.


hth,
al

Great thread! Thank you for sharing it!:)

[CliffsDiscus]

I have the same electric company but pay almost nothing, just got to know what are your options
Is you meter running TOO fast as a result of high billing or was you old meter running slow, phone as ask for a meter testing of the light load and full load
there should be no more then 1 percent difference between light and full. If the meter is running correctly then yous next option is to a different rate schedule,
something like the TOU metering these are meters use at business operation, they get a cheaper rate when the business is open.

Also other discounts are available such as the CARE PROGRAM(30% discount) any disabilities(20%discount)

There was a discount given to customer but probably not available that is the E8 rate schedule for customer using more then 1000KHW per month.

There now is the new 7 percent increase but also there is the winter rate too.

Energy audit is available by the utility company too.

Electric rate is higher after 1pm, so run your high wattage appliance earlier.

Cliff

[Boyd Luth]

Great advise. Thank you Boyd. My tank is sealed tight but my sump has an open top. Maybe I can get styrofoam to put on top my sump to help conserve heat.
I also have insulated my sump, and storage area, every little bit helps, the glass tops helped :-)

[Keith Perkins]

I have the same electric company but pay almost nothing, just got to know what are your options
Is you meter running TOO fast as a result of high billing or was you old meter running slow, phone as ask for a meter testing of the light load and full load
there should be no more then 1 percent difference between light and full. If the meter is running correctly then yous next option is to a different rate schedule,
something like the TOU metering these are meters use at business operation, they get a cheaper rate when the business is open.

Also other discounts are available such as the CARE PROGRAM(30% discount) any disabilities(20%discount)

There was a discount given to customer but probably not available that is the E8 rate schedule for customer using more then 1000KHW per month.

There now is the new 7 percent increase but also there is the winter rate too.

Energy audit is available by the utility company too.

Electric rate is higher after 1pm, so run your high wattage appliance earlier.

Cliff

I would definitely check into the things Cliff has suggested. Now I don't use a drip system, but I've got a lot more wattage in heaters running than you do and my electric bill hasn't proportionally gone up nearly as much as yours.

[DJW]

Something that hasn't been mentioned is that during winter all the heat that leaks out of the tanks is adding to the heat in the room and contributing to the heating of your house, and so theoretically the cost of heating the house should go down some if you don't move the thermostat. The only difference should be the cost of electrical heat versus whatever less costly form of energy the house heater uses. In my house we use all wood heat, so we are probably shoving a bit less wood into the stove... either that or we are a smidgen more comfortable and paying for it.

[CliffsDiscus]

Something that hasn't been mentioned is that during winter all the heat that leaks out of the tanks is adding to the heat in the room and contributing to the heating of your house, and so theoretically the cost of heating the house should go down some if you don't move the thermostat. The only difference should be the cost of electrical heat versus whatever less costly form of energy the house heater uses. In my house we use all wood heat, so we are probably shoving a bit less wood into the stove... either that or we are a smidgen more comfortable and paying for it.

Its a Catch-a-22, I have not turn on my house thermostat for the longest time but have to deal with the high humidity and worse of all the mold.

I have seen a few fish keepers that installed small gas heaters.

Cliff

[MD.David]

Is your water bill included in your electric bill like mine?

[CliffsDiscus]

Is your water bill included in your electric bill like mine?

Hi David,
I don't pay the water bill my landlord does, but the gas and electric are together.

Cliff

[Jack L]

this has me thinking. i have a programmable stat. i let the house drop to 62 during the day and night. i wonder if what i'm saving on heating with gas, i'm spending on running the 500 watt heater more?

[Jack L]

and i just did some quick math, HOLY CRAP is it expensive to heat this tank! i don't have a controller though, so i just used the 50% of time. unless i'm missing something the electric is the most expensive part of this setup over the long term.

[Altum Nut]

I try not to think about it.
I knew prior to getting into this hobby it would have a price tag so I live with it.
Trying to contain heat whether it be the house or tanks is the only resort I see.
If I could I would run everything on gas.

...Ralph

[Jack L]

i just ordered this
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00009MDBU?keywords=P3%20P4400%20Kill%20A%20Watt%2 0Electricity%20Usage%20Monitor&qid=1455162173&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1

this should take the mystery out of how much its is running.

might be of use to you Heidi

if i remember, i update post on how it works.

[DJW]

I try not to think about it...

Lol... this is the best approach.

[tvoydan]

The energy cost was one of the reasons I got rid of my reef tank. I generally count total watts used on my tanks. Last I checked (a few years ago), I estimated it cost me $8 a month for a 100w bulb to run 24/7.

Heaters have been the biggest cost to my electric bill. Especially in the winter months. I run two 125 gallon tanks right now in the basement with 500 watts of heaters, on 50% of the time each tank, 100 watts in pumps 24/7 on each tank, and 75 watts each light for 8 hours. That's $40 for heaters, $16 for pumps, $4 for the lights a month (SWAG). Total $60 a month and that sounds about how much my electric bill jumped.

I've also noticed over the years that turning down the thermostat in the house when not home actually cost me more than keeping the house at a constant temp (go figure). And after setting up my tanks, my heating bill dropped (natural gas) since all the fish tank heat eventually escapes into the house helping keep it warm.

I never use to heat the basement in the winter, but with the discus tanks, I open the heat vents down there so the electric heaters don't have to work as much.

87f is pretty high temp to hold in a fish tank. You should really look into heating via a hot water tank re-circ pump if you're on natural gas, A lot of the big tanks guys do it and I here it's much cheaper. I keep looking at it as an option. Of course if you're renting or have an electric water heater or point source water heater, it's probably not an option.

I assume you live in California? Buy a kill-a-watt meter to measure how much each of your tanks are using in electricity and study your bill to determine how much a watt cost. As someone mentioned rates are tiered, the more you use, the more the rates start going up in each tier you reach.

I keep my tanks at 82 because of the heater costs involved going higher.

[tvoydan]

This seems to give you the PGE tier rates at 18.2 cents per KWH tier 1.

http://www.pge.com/en/myhome/saveenergymoney/plans/tiers/index.page

and it looks like you have different plans available (tier vs time of use): http://www.pge.com/en/myhome/saveenergymoney/plans/index.page


Compared to DTE where I live at 6.912 cents (power charge) +5.003 cents (delivery charge) = 11.913 cents per KWH tier 1.

http://dteenergy.com/residentialCustomers/billingPayment/electricRate/comparison.html

And I'm guessing, they tack on taxes on top of the electric bill.

[Jack L]

kill-a-watt used, no more mystery

numbers in case anyone is curious

i was surprised by the mag 12 pump, i expected higher numbers.

pump = 78 watts
78x24x30/1000 = 56kwh a month = $8/month

heater rated 500 watts = 478 w
looks like its averaging about .20 kwh by hour so 147 kwh/month. for math use $.15 = $22/month

so that adds up pretty quick i guess.

edit-
the month i ran it high to heat treat ich, the heater never turned off, so that would have been about $50/month

[LizStreithorst]

For me it's painful during the winter months even though my fish room is well insulated. I have no choice but to except that fact.

[CliffsDiscus]

kill-a-watt used, no more mystery

numbers in case anyone is curious

i was surprised by the mag 12 pump, i expected higher numbers.

pump = 78 watts
78x24x30/1000 = 56kwh a month = $8/month

heater rated 500 watts = 478 w
looks like its averaging about .20 kwh by hour so 147 kwh/month. for math use $.15 = $22/month

so that adds up pretty quick i guess.

edit-
the month i ran it high to heat treat ich, the heater never turned off, so that would have been about $50/month

Your 500 watt heater doesn't stay continuous on for 24 hrs , it shuts off when it reaches the temp that is set.

[Jack L]

correct, that is why it is averaging .2 kwh by hour. it is currently set to 82
the kill a watt show elapsed time tracking a device, and kwh used during that time

few months back it set it to 92, it would only shut off for a minute at a time then back on, it wasn't able to reach 94 so it just kept trying. so it was pretty much running 24 hrs a day then.