Rescue Discus - Your Advice

[DISCUS STU]

Hey Group!9408594086

I walked into my lfs and saw two large Discus in various states of long term neglect. One was dying. I was told that they were originally dropped off at the local PetSmart, left on a shelf, and then brought there to the lfs. One looked like it had been a beautiful large 6.5" or so fish but it was dying, the other, pictured here was in better shape.

The store owner said, "you can have them" so I took them on to see if I could save at least one. The first one was DOA after about an hour. This one is being treated with Metro at .75 grams per 10 gal. in a 10 gal. hospital tank, also with PraziPro for parasites, and Kanamycin Sulfate.

It's clearly in rough shape. Is it even possible that these extreme craters will heal up? As I don't know much anything about this fish other than it was raised properly and then was severely neglected I'm taking a general approach re parasites, protozoans, bacterial infection, etc.

I told the owner of the lfs that I would consult the "Forum". Your views?

[nc0gnet0]

Are the pictures from your tank? why prazipro?

[nc0gnet0]

My first advice would be to never do what your doing. It's not worth putting your current stock at risk.

[Altum Nut]

It's unfortunate to see what looks to have been a beautifully shaped Discus neglected. I'm sure many here would say to cull it Stu. Can't tell by the photos but it's possible damages could be only external where I would swab some hydrogen peroxide on those wounds and offer very clean water.
Did you notice any white poop or flukes to have decided your treatment of choice ?
Time will tell Stu if your up to trying to save it.

...Ralph

[Phillydubs]

I don't know a thing about meds so I can't help you there ... Noble what you are doing but be safe and as another said don't put the rest at risk....

I can say this... Good clean water will heal a lot... I am always amazed at how these fish heal and regenerate...

I recently had one of my guys crack it's dorsal during a spat and in a few days it was better than new... My only advice is try not to harp on it and clock watch... It's like watching paint dry. Do your changes and whatever meds and see ...you may be surprised !

[jmf3460]

OP, I respect what you are doing. I would have tried to save that fish too. Many of the rescues we see don't look anywhere near as quality as this fish. You can tell this fish has been raised properly and something drastic must have happened for it to end up in a lfs.
I think the wounds look superficial, I agree that the metro/prazipro might not be necessary at this point. But the Kana sulfate will help with the surface scrapes and will help keep them from becoming infected. This guy will likely bounce back really well. Please keep track of his progress here I am rooting for you.

[Akili]

DISCUS STU to rescue again,hat off to you. It will a very nice looking fish when it makes it back to good health.It will be a learning thread for me to follow as I see many like this one at local fish stores in my area.

[RDFISHGUY]

I think I would have treated it the same way. I'm not a discus expert but prazi gets rid of worms. If you want to put it in with other fish I would make sure it is free of worms. In case it is HITH the metro will clean it up and if it's a bacterial infection the Kanamycin should do the trick. It sounds like you covered all the bases. Whether or not the fish will tolerate all at once, I guess we will have to wait and see.

[DISCUS STU]

My first advice would be to never do what your doing. It's not worth putting your current stock at risk.

This picture was taken in the store. It's now in a 10 gal. qt/hospital tank at home and being treated. No threat to my "good stock".

[DISCUS STU]

Thanks everyone. I won't post a picture of the other fish, the one that didn't make it, but it was clear to see that originally it may have been almost show quality. It had huge facial ulcers and was nearly vertical when I got it. If I'd gotten it 7 maybe 10 days earlier I might have been able to do something, but it was just too far gone.

A shame. Someone raised these fish very well but they must have been neglected for many, many months or years. Then they were dropped off at the Petsmart and left on a shelf to die there, as in the staff of the store just found them in the large plastic bag placed on a shelf in their store. I can only guess at the "back story" of these two.

Time will tell. In the meanwhile it's going to be plenty of clean water, some meds, and as much TLC as possible..

[jmf3460]

how does he look in your hospital tank?? im anxious to see how much improvement can be seen just with clean sterile water.

[Rapture]

Good luck, I hope it is strong enough to start healing!

[DISCUS STU]

how does he look in your hospital tank?? im anxious to see how much improvement can be seen just with clean sterile water.

He looks OK, but less than a day later he or she isn't eating yet. This one isn't hopeless and I think I can turn it around. I'd just like to be able to get these large HITH craters to heal up but we'll see. If you ever watch those shows were they rehab old classic cars that were left for and look like junk only to see them restored looking like incredible, beautiful, gleaming chariots, I can only hope and work for the best.

[jmf3460]

do you have a pic or a video of him in your hospital tank?

[Kyla]

def keep us updated! fingers crossed he pulls thru. i really want this to end up an awesome before/after story.

ive healed craters from HITH on oscars before, where u couldnt even tell they had been there. boyds vitachem soaked food helped a bit in the last HITH case i worked on.

i mix metro and kana during treatments, but ive never mixed prazipro with other meds. if its not eating there is also the option of using a pipette to administer the metro orally, although i do see many discus keepers using metro in the water column.

[Tshethar]

I can see why you are not posting lots of snapshots given his current condition, which really is terrible and sad, but I do hope you'll take a few for yourself so you can document what is likely to be a nice recovery now that you have him in treatment.

I know you have a lot of tanks and such--are you able to keep his hospital tank far removed from the rest of your equipment? Given my recent introduction to what may have been a self-induced cross-contamination problem, I can see why some folks would be leery of bringing an ailing discus into the house. That said, he looks like he can return to being a beautiful fish and I have a feeling you're going to bring him back.

Best of luck (and good karma)!

[DISCUS STU]

Thanks, I'll post more pics. when there's something more to show as it's only been a day since that pic. was taken at the lfs. Right now he, or she, is convalescing in the peaceful, calming dark of the hospital tank.

This one seems very likely to make a good recovery, given enough care and maintenance. The Metro and Prazi are part of my regular qt. anyway and seeing as how I know nothing about what and where this one came from, other than it having been shunted from a Petsmart tank to a lfs tank and having been kept very badly before this, I really have to treat assuming it may have bacterial, protozoan, flukes, etc.

Also using Ammo Chips to take the edge off of possible ammonia spikes due to the meds. and possible disruption to the bio filter in the Hagen/Fluval HOB. Also added some bio culture and per the other advice, some "Dick Boyd's Vita-Chem". $14.99 investment for a "Rescue" fish, but what the hey. My old stuff was more than 10 years old.

It's a good challenge for me.

[Filip]

Very nice discus Stu. Too bad the other one didn't make it.
I wonder what will you do after he heals , and I believe he will do it eventually ?
Are you planning to introduce him to your current community?

[DISCUS STU]

Very nice discus Stu. Too bad the other one didn't make it.
I wonder what will you do after he heals , and I believe he will do it eventually ?
Are you planning to introduce him to your current community?

Hey Filip. Given enough time and the right indications that this fish has healed, is healthy, and won't introduce disease to my other Discus, I will eventually introduce this one to the rest of my Discus. This may be many weeks or even months away.

But first we'll have to see how well this fish heals. Right now it's still somewhat dark.

[Phillydubs]

Any updates Stu?

[jmf3460]

oh yea Phil I forgot about this thread, come on Stu some pics and updates

[DISCUS STU]

Hey. The glare from the tank in this room make pics. almost impossible. I'm still treating but finished with the Metro, just raised the temp. up to about 85. This fish is also still dark.

Small light yellowish, not white, excrement. New to me. It's not really eating. The excrement almost looks like thin meal worms, intestinal shaped. Again, I have no idea of what this fish went through prior to my care. 94561

[brewmaster15]

Stu,
I would advise swabbing the HITH with iodine or hydrogen Peroxide. It will help the close up. One thing that happens alot of the time is the fish start to get enlarged pits due to parasites or nutritional deficiencies and then the pits get infected with bacteria and the erosions get larger and larger.

I'd also suggest the fish sounds like it has nematodes, probably capillaria. Hence the yellowish feces. A microscope may confirm the capillaria eggs. In any case, I would suggest levamisole... Not prazi or Prazi pro. Prazi is really great for tape worms.. but though reported to have possible effect on some nematodes, Its not a first choice med.. A good general dewormer is Levamisole for a non- eating fish.


hth.
al

[DISCUS STU]

Thanks, will treat with iodine. I have Levamisole. How much to dose for 10 gal. Unfortunately going away tomorrow until the following Tuesday so it may have to wait. Also treating with Maracyn 2, (minocycline) due to body streaking. Seems to be working and the fish's color is lightening.

[brewmaster15]

Thanks, will treat with iodine. I have Levamisole. How much to dose for 10 gal. Unfortunately going away tomorrow until the following Tuesday so it may have to wait. Also treating with Maracyn 2, (minocycline) due to body streaking. Seems to be working and the fish's color is lightening.

Levamisole dose is at 2-4 ppm for 24 hours as a bath.


Careful on the maracyn 2 , minocycline is a good antibiotic but can make them skittish and jumpy....be sure there are no opennings to jump thru.

al

[DISCUS STU]

This is what the yellowish excrement looks like. Just swabbed sores with Iodine. 94592

[DISCUS STU]

Update - Bad news.

Had to go away on business for about 8 days and left the fish in the tank with a Fluval 50 running until I returned. It looked good and was getting better so I figured it would be OK until I came back.

A few days before I returned I received a robo call from my power company apologizing for the "disruption in service", meaning a temporary power outage. My first thought was to the Fluval and would it restart after the power returned. It didn't and unfortunately I found the fish dead when I came back home at about 3:00 am last night. It probably died from lack of air/oxygen.

I need to find a more reliable HOB filter than the Fluvals which are easy to use and maintain but are prone to this problem and I've had similar experiences with them not starting after a power failure. It's not a problem if your home, but it's a big problem if you're using it as a primary filter and for aeration.

I probably also should have been running an airstone, my mistake. A shame, I think this fish could have made a good recovery.

[Phillydubs]

Damn... that is awful...

I have always used Aquaclear's... Do they have the same issue? Whenever I turn them off for cleanings, once I kiick the power on it goes right to work, I assume this would be the same if the power goes out then comes back?

[DISCUS STU]

Damn... that is awful...

I have always used Aquaclear's... Do they have the same issue? Whenever I turn them off for cleanings, once I kiick the power on it goes right to work, I assume this would be the same if the power goes out then comes back?

They are one and the same. Now going under the name Aquaclear. Unless the impeller and housing is kept very clean they may NOT restart after a power failure. This is usually not an issue if they are clean but it is an issue if they aren't perfectly clean.

[jmf3460]

my trustee ol emperor 400s (made by marineland I believe) start up every time. I also have aquaclears and they are hit/miss for starting up after a power outage. sorry to hear of your loss Stu I was really expecting a full recovery for this guy.

[Filip]

I was hoping for full recovery and eventual introducing with your other discus .Too bad he had no luck at all.

[mee]

That's a real bummer Stu. I just found this thread, and read every post hoping for this beauty. You did your best man, and I too think this fish was on it's way to a full recovery. At the very least it has some peaceful days in your care vs being gawked at in a bright pet store before the end.