Help to identify my 2 new discus. New Member

[ocmnelson]

Hello all, New to the forum. I have been reading a lot and thank you for all the info.

Before I get beat up I know I should have more discus in my tank, I have a few questions tho.

I was browsing the LFS when my son pointed out 2 healthy looking discus. I have always wanted discus but never pulled the trigger until a week ago.

My set up:
55 gl. Well planted community tank.
Cascade 1000 Canister, Marineland emperor 400, Current LED Satellite +.
Fish Stock:
3 Neon Rainbows (Preacox), 8 Rummynose, 6 Neon tetra, 6 Sparkling Blue gourami, 8 amano shrimp, 2 SAE's, 2 nerite snail (Going to get rid of these shortly)
and now 2 new discus. :D

Questions:
What type/species are my discus?
I know I should keep in groups of 6 or more. Can I get more discus with my current set up and stock level or would it be too much?
Last, I have read the some people do monthly or periodic de-worming treatments. Is this recommended and what should I use and how?
Any other suggestions?

All water prams are good, PH 7.2 Temp 84. Water change every Sun. When time (2 kids, 3 dogs and a wifey) allow I can get 2 changes in one week.

Thank you for your help.

~keep your sleeves wet~
Mike

9411694117

[Akili]

Hi Welcome to SimplyDiscus.Your fish look like from Turquoise family I think.A 55 gal tank will limit as to how many more you can add as you also have other fishes in the tank. General rule is 10 gallons minimum for an adult discus.Also you may want to increase the amount of water changes. Quarantine period is minimum of six weeks,You should go through the stickies in the Beginners Section. By the way, do not know if you have watched this video by the owner of this site, if you have not then spend an hour of your time and watch it

https://youtu.be/VXe3VKh7qF8

[Phillydubs]

Welcome Mike... Read, read, read... Only way to learn and grow as a hobbyist... Now on to beating you up!!! Lol... j/k...

But seriously, I see some glaring issues here and you are going to struggle or have problems if you don't make some swift changes...

One is the obvious, water changes... Once a week is not going to cut it and you are asking for trouble... How much water are you even changing once a week? You and I have some similarities, I have a 55 gallon and I also have a newborn and a toddler so I am well aware of the time constraints, but if you want healthy fish, not only discus but fish of any type you have to stay on top of the water changes. I have a way overstocked 55 gallon and I do water changes pretty much daily, 100%, of course I have the occasional missed day or go every other, but I always adjust my feedings to fit my water schedule... You are going to need to do at least every other day, minimum...

Substrate - that looks like quite a hefty amount of sand or gravel or something looks extremely thick which is going to eventually lead to poor water conditions and make maintenance very hard. The fact that you have plants as well could pose an issue if you are new to all of this and can't figure out a balance... Are you an experienced aquatic plant keeper?

Tank mates - you are def. at your max stocking level as it stands now, especially w/ the current water change schedule. The rainbows are not a great tank mate for discus, especially in that size tank. They tend to be fast active swimmers and will cause the discus to be skiddish. Gouramis are also pretty aggressive eaters and might beat out and bully the discus for food...I think you need to decide if you want to keep discus or a community tank. Given your small footprint, you cant have both, with success at least...

Discus - from the few pictures you posted the discus look pretty nice to me especially for LFS..Any idea on their size? They look to be on the large size. As for the strain it is hard to tell, possibly some blue diamond or a blue cross variation, reflection or something along those lines... As you mentioned earlier, you are aware that 2 is not recommended unless they are a pair, which it is pretty safe to say yours are not...

Bottom line: You have some decisions to make as to where you want to go and what you want to do here... Also, I forgot to mention your lack of quarantine could already cause you issues as it appears you just tossed them in the tank with your current stock... Do you want to keep discus? If so, I would re-home the rest of those fish and go discus only until you are in a routine and keeping them healthy. Maybe you can sell back or trade in your current stock for LFS credit? Being a new discus keeper alone in a bare bottom tank with good stock is a challenge to a newbie, you have set your self up with a nice row of hurdles on top of that...

Take some time, evaluate your wants, your time and ask more questions and make a decision... but in my personal opinion, as you currently stand, you are going to face many problems and will not enjoy yourself too much... Just being straight up with you...

[rickztahone]

Mike, first I want to welcome you to the forum. :)

Second, I will have to go with these 2 being Cobalts.

Also, I will just say that of all the fish tanks I have ever seen on any forum, this is by far the deepest substrate bed I have ever seen. My advice would be to remove a lot of it. However, at this point, you may have a lot of bad stuff accumulated under the substrate and you do not want to do this with any fish still in the tank.

[ocmnelson]

Welcome Mike... Read, read, read... Only way to learn and grow as a hobbyist... Now on to beating you up!!! Lol... j/k...

But seriously, I see some glaring issues here and you are going to struggle or have problems if you don't make some swift changes...

One is the obvious, water changes... Once a week is not going to cut it and you are asking for trouble... How much water are you even changing once a week? You and I have some similarities, I have a 55 gallon and I also have a newborn and a toddler so I am well aware of the time constraints, but if you want healthy fish, not only discus but fish of any type you have to stay on top of the water changes. I have a way overstocked 55 gallon and I do water changes pretty much daily, 100%, of course I have the occasional missed day or go every other, but I always adjust my feedings to fit my water schedule... You are going to need to do at least every other day, minimum...

Substrate - that looks like quite a hefty amount of sand or gravel or something looks extremely thick which is going to eventually lead to poor water conditions and make maintenance very hard. The fact that you have plants as well could pose an issue if you are new to all of this and can't figure out a balance... Are you an experienced aquatic plant keeper?

Tank mates - you are def. at your max stocking level as it stands now, especially w/ the current water change schedule. The rainbows are not a great tank mate for discus, especially in that size tank. They tend to be fast active swimmers and will cause the discus to be skiddish. Gouramis are also pretty aggressive eaters and might beat out and bully the discus for food...I think you need to decide if you want to keep discus or a community tank. Given your small footprint, you cant have both, with success at least...

Discus - from the few pictures you posted the discus look pretty nice to me especially for LFS..Any idea on their size? They look to be on the large size. As for the strain it is hard to tell, possibly some blue diamond or a blue cross variation, reflection or something along those lines... As you mentioned earlier, you are aware that 2 is not recommended unless they are a pair, which it is pretty safe to say yours are not...

Bottom line: You have some decisions to make as to where you want to go and what you want to do here... Also, I forgot to mention your lack of quarantine could already cause you issues as it appears you just tossed them in the tank with your current stock... Do you want to keep discus? If so, I would re-home the rest of those fish and go discus only until you are in a routine and keeping them healthy. Maybe you can sell back or trade in your current stock for LFS credit? Being a new discus keeper alone in a bare bottom tank with good stock is a challenge to a newbie, you have set your self up with a nice row of hurdles on top of that...

Take some time, evaluate your wants, your time and ask more questions and make a decision... but in my personal opinion, as you currently stand, you are going to face many problems and will not enjoy yourself too much... Just being straight up with you...

Thanks for the honesty,

Water changes:
I actually have done a WC every other day so far. I just don't see me able to do that all the time. I do a 50-60% WC every time I do. I will do my best!! This is my challenge.

Substrate:
Yes, lots in there B/C of the plants. I have a little rock at the bottom for structure, eco-complete in the middle with a top layer of fine to hold it in place and for looks. Not much a can do here. I clean the the best I can every WC. I am not new to aquariums. I have had them since I was 13. Im not new to planted tanks. I have been doing pretty well growing high light plants in low tech tanks with no CO2. I only use flourish exel. for a few years now. Never any algae blooms, or problems.

Tank mates:
This is where I have to disagree a bit.
They say tetras are good tank mates for discuss. My Dwarf Rainbows act like they are tetras, following the rummynose. (trying to keep up anyway.) I Have 3 and they are not adults yet. All my fish swim with each other as one big shoal no joke even my SAE's get in on the schooling action. Maybe I just got lucky but as for now the current fish are all pretty relaxed and get along awesome. As for the gourami, I agree but not for Sparkling blue gourami. These only get to be maybe an inch and a half long. (Very small) They are very timid. They are smaller than my Neon tetras. Im actually worried these may become food for the discuss later down the line. If they were regular gouramis I would not have even bothered with the discus.

Quarantine.
Yes, Major fail here. My quarantine tank is being used by my buddy who has an angel with a bad case of ick. I should have done this. No excuses. Now i wait and hope for the best.

Im not going to sell back the discuss. I may donate my 6 neon tetras and my 3 rainbows to my buddy and try to get 3 more discuss. not sure if this is the best idea meaning, will my 2 discuss be better off by themselves or make room for 3 more that way the bullying and pecking order can be established a little better. My tank is pretty well planted with lots of hiding areas and swimming area. I have a bunch of shrimp but never see them. LOL as well as the gouramis are all over the nooks and crannies.

No mention of the deworming i keep hearing mixed things about this. Is this something that is "preventative" and is done monthly? bi Monthly?

Akili. Thanks for the post I will watch the vid today. :)

I will post some better pics of the fish tomorrow as well as the whole tank to give some better ideas.

Thanks guys for the feedback.

Mike

[ocmnelson]

Mike, first I want to welcome you to the forum. :)

Second, I will have to go with these 2 being Cobalts.

Also, I will just say that of all the fish tanks I have ever seen on any forum, this is by far the deepest substrate bed I have ever seen. My advice would be to remove a lot of it. However, at this point, you may have a lot of bad stuff accumulated under the substrate and you do not want to do this with any fish still in the tank.

Thank you for the welcome Rickz.

Yes thick substrate. I think the thickest part is about 2 inches. Remember too, this is acrylic tank so no black trim hiding the first 1.5" layer of the bottom like glass tanks.:)
This is the biggest problem other than my water changes I saw getting into this. I may look for a new tank but I definitely will try to set aside time for daily water changes and see how it goes.

Hmm. Time to start hinting towards another tank to the wifey....... gonna be a long battle. LOL

[rickztahone]

Thank you for the welcome Rickz.

Yes thick substrate. I think the thickest part is about 2 inches. Remember too, this is acrylic tank so no black trim hiding the first 1.5" layer of the bottom like glass tanks.:)
This is the biggest problem other than my water changes I saw getting into this. I may look for a new tank but I definitely will try to set aside time for daily water changes and see how it goes.

Hmm. Time to start hinting towards another tank to the wifey....... gonna be a long battle. LOL

From the picture that shows the substrate, I deduced that these discus were not less than 2" vertically, and the substrate looks to be a lot taller than the discus. It may be the photo angle playing tricks, but it just looks to be very thick layer of substrate. Have you actually measured it?

[Akili]

No mention of the deworming i keep hearing mixed things about this. Is this something that is "preventative" and is done monthly? bi Monthly?

Akili. Thanks for the post I will watch the vid today. :)

I will post some better pics of the fish tomorrow as well as the whole tank to give some better ideas.

Thanks guys for the feedback.

MikeYou welcome, Most of us do the Deworming during the Quarantine Period and there is no need of medicating unnecessary on monthly basis .As a matter of fact long term use of medication is very damaging to your fish.

[ocmnelson]

From the picture that shows the substrate, I deduced that these discus were not less than 2" vertically, and the substrate looks to be a lot taller than the discus. It may be the photo angle playing tricks, but it just looks to be very thick layer of substrate. Have you actually measured it?

Yes I have measured, The lowest point of substrate is about 1/2 inch. and the highest in the far right corner is about 3.5" with an average of 2 across the main bottom. The discuss I have are not to big yet. I have included a photo sorry its an older one but it will help understand. I have actually taken a litte bit out from the far right since then and my tank has grown in quite a bit. Pic is a few monthes old. Sorry for the confusion.
94120

[briztoon]

Thanks for the honesty,

...

Tank mates:
This is where I have to disagree a bit.
They say tetras are good tank mates for discuss.

...

Thanks guys for the feedback.

Mike

The section in bold, "they say...". Who is they? One thing you will quickly learn is most people who are "they" have little real knowledge about what it takes to keep discus.

Seriously watch/listen to the video. Then a second time.

No one wants to discourage people new to discus from keeping discus. What members hope is that people new to discus understand what it really takes to keep discus.

[Phillydubs]

+1 Peter!

Of course you should add more discus, but given your current stock and water changes I am not sure I would or how well they would do... Of course, the alternate is that the 2 you have fight because of the low numbers...

Sort of a catch 22... but if you are unwilling to make any changes to your current set-up as it seems you are not then I am not sure what to recommend because it seems like you have your own plan in mind anyways...

[ocmnelson]

The section in bold, "they say...". Who is they? One thing you will quickly learn is most people who are "they" have little real knowledge about what it takes to keep discus.

Seriously watch/listen to the video. Then a second time.

No one wants to discourage people new to discus from keeping discus. What members hope is that people new to discus understand what it really takes to keep discus.

I have read a few articles and websites that say Neon tetras and rummynose are good tank companions. I have read from fishlore, a few forums of actual members keeping different fish in the tanks with discus (rummynose and cardinal tetras.) and live aquaria. But mainly the fact was about my neon rainbows. These are not a traditional companion for discus as philydub stated. I was just comparing the neon rainbows to my rummynose as they all school together and temperaments are the same.

It seems I thought I was close to giving what discus needed, I was going to up my water changes, keep the temp at 84-85 and all my other fish were getting along I thought it would be possible. I have seen so many planted community tanks with discuss here in orange county and honestly setups that by the book should not work but yet they have big healthy colorful discuss. But I'm thinking now I should just return them and stay on my merry way of a planted community tank.

[briztoon]

Quite a bit of what you just mentioned is discussed in the video.

One thing you said then was, big healthy discus. (one s by the way for discus). Quite likely they bought them as adults, or grew them out in a dedicated bare bottom grow out tank, then added them to the display tank. Starting with adult discus is very different than starting with young discus. Again, it's covered in the video.

[rickztahone]

I have read a few articles and websites that say Neon tetras and rummynose are good tank companions. I have read from fishlore, a few forums of actual members keeping different fish in the tanks with discus (rummynose and cardinal tetras.) and live aquaria. But mainly the fact was about my neon rainbows. These are not a traditional companion for discus as philydub stated. I was just comparing the neon rainbows to my rummynose as they all school together and temperaments are the same.

It seems I thought I was close to giving what discus needed, I was going to up my water changes, keep the temp at 84-85 and all my other fish were getting along I thought it would be possible. I have seen so many planted community tanks with discuss here in orange county and honestly setups that by the book should not work but yet they have big healthy colorful discuss. But I'm thinking now I should just return them and stay on my merry way of a planted community tank.

You can lower your temp to 82 with discus. These are the things that it comes down to with discus companions:

-Would they fit in the discus mouth? Typically 1" or smaller and the answer is yes which means they wouldn't be suitable
-Can they take the higher temp of a discus tank?
-Are they a fast or erratic swimmer? If yes, you should avoid having with discus as they are a lot calmer swimmer
-Fast eaters. If they eat really fast like angels for example, they may out compete the discus at eating because they are slow eaters.

These things (amongst others) should be considered for tank-mates for discus.

[ocmnelson]

+1 Peter!

Of course you should add more discus, but given your current stock and water changes I am not sure I would or how well they would do... Of course, the alternate is that the 2 you have fight because of the low numbers...

Sort of a catch 22... but if you are unwilling to make any changes to your current set-up as it seems you are not then I am not sure what to recommend because it seems like you have your own plan in mind anyways...

Well, I was willing to make some changes regarding the fish stock. I cant do much with the substrate considering all the plants. If I do re-home the 6 neon tetras and the 3 neon rainbows. Would that get me closer to adding 2 more or 3 more discuss was the question. Kind of not important at this point cause Im leaning towards just returning the discuss. :confused:


I obviously want a planted community tank...with discus. I have seen these flourish well with Discus in the tanks. (And Substrate) Most of the planted tanks I have seen, I cant tell you how old the discuss were when they bought them and added them to the tank. But I do know for 2 of the tanks I saw they added discus at the same size I just bought. They have many other fish, and the tank is doing well, Discus look amazing. Now 1 tank is smallerthan mine but the other is almost double my 55 gal. My tank routine and setup is not a perfect setup and no where near what it should be for discus. I have seen far worse set ups and people have luck just thought I was at a better spot than the worse set ups and that i might have had success.

From my experience in fish keeping their is so many things that do not work together and should not go together, Set ups that are by the book and fail. On the other hand I have seen so many things that should not work and not go together have great success. Thought I was close to maybe making it work......

Mike out..

[ocmnelson]

Quick Update. Discus are doing good. Eating great. Hanging around the front of the tank always looking to see whats going on.

94756

[Akili]

Great news Mike! Thanks for the update :thumbsup:

[Phillydubs]

So what have you decided on here? Did you re-home anything? Will you be adding more discus?

[ocmnelson]

So what have you decided on here? Did you re-home anything? Will you be adding more discus?

I didn't really change anything except more water changes and testing my tank every other day but I'm done with that for a bit. (The water testing). I did however put in my uv sterilizer for about 4 days which its still in now and going to be taking it out I think tomorrow as I did not QT them like I should have. (I know now). I am going to try to add 3 more, Maybe in about a month or so as long as these guys do fine which they seem to be. They hang out with all the other tank mates. They dont bother them and the discus dont notice the other fish. I caught them all schooling for a moment (even my SAE's lol) The only thing I notice is the bullying starting hence why I want to try to add 3 more to ease the bullying on just the one. If I do get more discus I may donate my 6 neon tetras. :(. Other than that going good. Eating like little pigs.

Hard to get a good pic.

94757

[Phillydubs]

Assuming you are going to follow proper qt you may want to get those new discus ASAP so they can be in qt and then your tank... Hope the one being bullied can hold out ...

[ocmnelson]

Assuming you are going to follow proper qt you may want to get those new discus ASAP so they can be in qt and then your tank... Hope the one being bullied can hold out ...

Phillydubs - Im getting the feeling your not too fond of my posts/me. All your posts are kind of well not Optimistic for me. Anyway..I do appreciate your feedback as I know you have a lot more experience than me well honestly I have none I have never kept discus. Its only what I have read here and online. So thank you.

QT already setup and running. :D Temp at 84. Readings are all zero with 15-20ppm Nitrate. I have 3 pygmy corys hanging out in there till I decide to get new discus. I didn't want to jump the gun (again) and buy more discus. I wanted to see if I could keep these guys happy, healthy, and well fed. Which so far so good. Do you think I should get 3 more now and go for it? I was thinking the 2 I have now where going to be my "Test Subjects" ...It sounds so wrong... before I went all in. The bullying is minor, but there. I have enough plants and hiding spots to where he can get away if he wants. So far just a little chase game every now and then. Last night they were face to face doing a stare down for a good minute which just led into them hanging out side by side. It was really cool to watch actually. Both are eating very well. I only notice the "chase game" after feeding, all day before feed time its all good in the tank.

So go for more now? QT for 6 weeks?

Or

Wait a month to see how these guys do in my tank? Then make a judgement call? I just didn't want to get more if my Conditions were not ideal for them to be happy and healthy.

[Meshelly]

You'll have to forgive a lot of us here. We tend towards placing the wellbeing of discus over all other fish. I've only had discus for five months and I have hit the point of not caring about my community fish (almost all in separate tanks). With that in mind, you want to get the additional discus now so that you can get them in with your current little guys sooner so that they will be happier.

Quarantine is another topic to research. Most of the guys here at Simply suggest 8 weeks of QT. Read the threads here and you'll figure out the de-worming schedules and time lines suggested pretty quickly.

Good luck! And if you decide to get more, have fun picking them out!

[tonytheboss1]

:bandana: Welcome to SIMPLY!! In a minute you're gonna have some problems unless you compromise & make some significant reductions in stocking. First be aware that you're not working w/ 55g of water. Figure about 40/45g. If the plan is to add 3 or 4 more juvies, (soon to be adults) you'll need to lose at least half or better of the 'community' fish. The shrimp will probably disappear as the Discus get larger. (Mine did lol) The W/C's will become even more vital once you add the extra Discus because of the reduced water volume. Finding a happy maint. balance between fish & plants is gonna be trial & error. I'm not saying it can't be done but be advised to be successful at both is gonna be WORK! The Discus need to be primary. Focus on giving them the best possible environment. BTW my guess is they appear to be cobalt. Oh & not for nothing but a 75g would go a long way to easing your worries. Good luck & keep asking ques. "T"

[Phillydubs]

I am not sure why you feel like I have ill will towards you, your tank or anything else...? I am simply stating the facts and my suggestions. You can choose to listen or not. Your tank your time your money...

I don't have to take the time to respond to you or even reply. If I didn't care I would sit back and watch the disaster ensue. I have tried to help you from the time you first posted here and because I have a similar set up. That's really all there is too it.

[briztoon]

The reason why people have suggested buying more discus now, is that the recommended QT time for discus is 6 weeks. If you plan on buying some new discus in a months time and follow the proper QT time frame, it's going to be 10+ weeks before the new discus are added to your planted tank. If you're waiting to see if there are bullying issues with your current discus and plan on buying more discus to spread the aggression, well the bullying is just likely to get worse during the 6 week QT period and the picked on discus can really go down hill fast during that time.

As for perceived negative comments and feedback.

This is a dedicated discus forum. Discus come first. People have the discus's health at heart. Many members believe to successfully keep discus at their best, you should be following the "rules". Can you bend or break the rules and still be successful? Maybe, if you have the experience and understanding of how to take corrective action if needed.
What happens if problems occur that you can't fix? Well nothing happens to you, but what happens to the fish is another mater.

It's pretty evident to most that you haven't taken on board the advice (or understand some of what was said) in the video that was linked in an early post. But I guess what you want from your tank and discus is different to what we would like to see.

[ocmnelson]

I am not sure why you feel like I have ill will towards you, your tank or anything else...? I am simply stating the facts and my suggestions. You can choose to listen or not. Your tank your time your money...

I don't have to take the time to respond to you or even reply. If I didn't care I would sit back and watch the disaster ensue. I have tried to help you from the time you first posted here and because I have a similar set up. That's really all there is too it.

Well I do appreciate your knowledge you are sharing. I have been listening and weighing my options. I am a little stubborn on getting rid of my community fish as you can tell. But I think first I need to relocate my neon tetras, that will be a start. I am working on daily WC's but as of now its every other day and im getting heat from the wifey about that. I have seemed to persuade her a bit as she asked me 2 days ago what color my next discus will be. :D So the plan is to slowly start hinting towards another tank strictly for the discus. Even tho I love them where they are now. Down the line Im sure there will be problems I dont see.

tonytheboss1 - Thanks for the welcome. Every day I come my discus are the first fish I look at. Im turning already... lol. As far as the work goes. Man I am busy with the tank and my kids/wife. I am getting a nice routine down just need to work in more WC. I wil lbe looking into the cobalt breed to try and learn more about them, History/breeders etc.

Meshelly - Looking into the QT process this weekend. I learned a lot form that youtube vid too BTW.

Thank you everyone for the info and help. I have some thinking to do this weekend. Just glad me discuss are healthy eating and happy as of now. I just want to maintain this balance but I know i need more discus in the tank to establish a healthier pecking order. I will be looking into the

[Filip]

Phillydubs is right. Even If you buy 3 more discus today , you'll still have to wait for 6 more weeks of QT prior introducing them to your community tank.
In that period the chasen/ beaten discus could get off food or get sick from bulling.
So yes, if you plan to do it right and QT the fish for 6 weeks, buy them ASAP.