Considering getting into keeping discus and have some questions

[dataz722]

Hi,

I have a fair amount of experience in keeping fish, but none specifically with discus. I have had a reef tank in the past and very recently african cichlids. I currently have a standard 90 gallon tank with what used to be live rock from when when I had my salt tank years ago and pool filter sand substrate which is on average probably about 2 inches deep. As far as filtration, I have a filstar xp3 canister as well as a sump powered by, I believe, at mag drive 7.5. Between the two I have a gallon of pond matrix and almost 5 gallons of bio balls. So I have a fair amount of flow and a ton of bio filtration.

Regarding keeping discus I have a few questions. From what I am reading I should probably have between 6-8 of them. Is there any problem mixing different species or do I need to stick with just one or two species? Also, do they all need to be added at roughly the same time or could I get a couple here and there until I get 6-8 total? Also, I see many people do daily or every other day water changes. Is that really necessary as long as the tank is not over stocked and there is a really good bio filter? I typically do water changes weekly and never let it go more than 2 weeks. When I had 22 cichlids and a couple BN plecos even after 2 weeks my nitrates were still usually below 10.

I am sure I will come up with some other questions that I am not thinking of at the moment, but I appreciate all the advice and help. Thanks.

[rickztahone]

First off, welcome to the forum.

Your question is a loaded one but I will try to explain it somewhat shorthand.

You can definitely run a 90g tank with an XP3. I'd feel a lot more comfortable running two of them in a 90g, but I think one may serve. If you have the sump available, I would personally go with that instead. It adds volume to the tank as well as allows you a place to hide stuff away down there. As far as pool filter sand? That is fine so long as it isn't a thick layer. 1" would be better than 2" IMHO. Forget the Bio balls and I just googled "pond matrix" and it looks like great BIO media.

6-8 discus in a 90g is fine, but, with a few limitations. If you were to go with only one XP3, I would recommend 6 only. If you do the sump, I'd recommend the 8. In either scenario, if you do not want to do many water changes, you should buy adults or close to. You do not want to start with small discus in a tank that doesn't get regular water changes, which once a week is not. I personally do 1 WC a day at roughly 60-70% and do one massive 100% a week. You can check my sig for my grow out group as well as my sump setup.

If you plan on buying a group, buy them all at once and introduce all of them at the same time. You do not want to buy some here and some there. You would have to quarantine each group at least 6-8 weeks at a time and this can become stressful to the discus. Furthermore, if you keep them in low numbers to begin with, e.g., 3-4, they will be very aggressive towards one another.

I hope that has answered some of your questions. If you have any more, please ask.

[dataz722]

Thank you. I currently have both the canister and sump running on the tank. I have been planning to slowly replace the bio balls with the pond matrix, but that stuff isn't cheap at all. It really is great media though as the "pond" version of it, which is just larger pieces, has been shown to be large enough to work for denitrifying as well.

I was looking at getting ones that were in the 2.5 inch range? Are those going to be too small?

Also, does anyone know of any reputable breeders in the Delaware area at all? I would prefer to not have to ship the fish if not necessary.

[Akili]

Raising juveniles is a lot of work specifically the water changes and feeding regime.You will raise some quality discus out of juveniles if do daily water changes and feed them a variety of foods four to six times a day.Some of us do 100% water changes daily. I can not remember how times I have posted this link of a video and if have not watched it yet then please do
https://youtu.be/VXe3VKh7qF8

[rickztahone]

Thank you. I currently have both the canister and sump running on the tank. I have been planning to slowly replace the bio balls with the pond matrix, but that stuff isn't cheap at all. It really is great media though as the "pond" version of it, which is just larger pieces, has been shown to be large enough to work for denitrifying as well.

I was looking at getting ones that were in the 2.5 inch range? Are those going to be too small?

Also, does anyone know of any reputable breeders in the Delaware area at all? I would prefer to not have to ship the fish if not necessary.

2.5" is as close to as small as most breeders would sell. You want to start with at least 4.5-5" discus if you do not plan on doing daily or every other day water changes. If every other day, then you would need to do bigger water changes.

[dataz722]

Raising juveniles is a lot of work specifically the water changes and feeding regime.You will raise some quality discus out of juveniles if do daily water changes and feed them a variety of foods four to six times a day.Some of us do 100% water changes daily. I can not remember how times I have posted this link of a video and if have not watched it yet then please do
https://youtu.be/VXe3VKh7qF8

I actually started watching that earlier today and plan to finish it tomorrow. I have found it very interesting and have picked up quite a bit from it.


2.5" is as close to as small as most breeders would sell. You want to start with at least 4.5-5" discus if you do not plan on doing daily or every other day water changes. If every other day, then you would need to do bigger water changes.

Hmmmm, well then I might have to reconsider getting into discus. I just can't afford $600 to $1000 in fish, at this point. And with working 50+ hours a week in addition to having a 2 year old I just don't have the time to be able to do daily water changes and even every other day would be pushing it. The last thing I would want is to start it and then not be able to commit to it and have it end up causing catastrophic problems.

Typically, about how long will it take for 2.5 to 3 inch ones to grow to the point of being fine with weekly a weekly wc?

Also, is the only reason for the daily water changes to keep the nitrates down, or are there other factors as well? If it just nitrates what level do they need to stay below in order for the fish to be happy and healthy? My tank handles denitrifying very well and unless I am missing something I am pretty confident that I could keep the levels below 5 with 50-60% water changes every 4 or 5 days. I am basing that on the fact that I kept 22 African cichlids as well as 2 decent sized BN, overfed to keep aggression down, and still after 10-14 days my nitrates were usually at or below 10. Granted, I could very well be wrong and I know that many on this board are far more knowledgeable on discus than I am, but I have also yet to see anyone on here with a tank set up like I have. I have considerable experience in salt systems and have mine set up similar to how I would do that and reef are very sensitive to nitrate levels. This is why I am using both live rock and the large volume of pond matrix. They both do a decent job with actually removing nitrates.

I also want to say that I hope nothing I said would be taken as argumentative or that I think I know better than everyone else and just want people to tell me what I want to hear and that I will do what I want anyway. I have spent quite a bit of time of various forums and have seen tons of people like that. I am just trying to get all of the facts and learn as much as I possibly can to make a truly informed decision.

[Phillydubs]

Well if you do get into discus you should be taking a ride to discus Hans shop... Being from deleware you can not be far from Hans at all. You should look him up, email him and head over. Even if just to see him and visit and get first hand info from the man himself ....

I can already tell that you can't commit to doig the water changes needed to raise anything but young adults. If you are already saying every other is too much or weekly is your max you will be stuck with 8 stunned weird looking discus... If you go small discus you need to change a ton of water and because you will be feeding a lot to get them to grow the water changes are a must. If you have as much filtration as you say you do then you can go with a nice group of adults and get away with twice a week changes.

If I were you I would save up and enjoy the fish. If you buy small fish to essential save $ you really won't on the long run. Your time , the water, the food will all add up to more than 200-250 a fish which is what you will pay for quality adults from Hans...

Deep
Breath... Lol all of that being said there are sponsors on here that all have tok quality 5" plus fish for steals of a price... You could easily get your group of 6-8 shipped for $1000 and you will be in love. For instance to start my tank I got 5 big awesome leopards from Chicago discus and they Happen to have them back in stock. They are $100 a pop and you can not go wrong.

Work it all out on your head and pick your best route and keep asking questions and thinking out loud !!!

[Phillydubs]

Lastly, if anything I admire what you are doing and what you said. I wish more people would take your approach, hell I wish I took it to start ... You are taking all the right steps you are asking questions and it sounds like you are working things out in your head and with your past experience.

[Rapture]

I never thought I'd do daily 80%+ water changes, but here I am. I was used to monthly or less often water changes on a planted betta tank. It's really not that bad, it just depends on how you design your set up around quickly emptying and replacing large volumes of water. Mine takes a little longer than I'd like because my tank is not drilled, and my tap pressure isn't that great, but I work around that by using a large pump to empty the tank, and by taking care of some other nightly responsibilities while the tank is slowly refilling. I probably only spend about 20 minutes working on the tank each night, including cleaning the insides and outside of the glass, taking out and putting away water changing supplies, feeding the fish, etc. The rest of the time is just waiting on water to refill, and then watching the fish afterward, because there is a huge difference in them before and after the water change. :)

[dataz722]

I did try to go to discus hans' site yesterday but my virus scanner said that it detected a threat on the site and wouldn't load the site.

There is just no way I could get my wife to go for us spending a grand on fish. If I could come up with some way to speed up my wc process then it wouldn't be so bad, but a 50% water change takes 60-90 minutes usually. I use a diy python and it drains ungodly slow and doesn't fill a whole lot faster. I could drain with a pump to speed that part up, but I have nowhere to store water so I would still be stuck with a slow fill. I am open to suggestions if there is a way that I am missing that wouldn't require water storage or using buckets. I have some back problems so hauling buckets is out of the question. If I could get my wc down to 20 or 30 minutes then I am pretty confident I could do it at least every other day, if not every day most of the time, especially if it would only be for a few weeks or a couple months. How long does it normally take for them to grow to the point of no longer needing daily wc?

[Phillydubs]

You could speak to a plumber to see what they can do about the flow rates and picking that up...

If you can't spend the $ or wait and save the $ needed to get adults I would vote not to go this route...

I hate to pick apart your words but I just get this feeling that you can't make the needed commitment to growing out juvies and I would hate to see you even waste a $1 on fish that will never reach potential or that you would not be happy with... I am not saying you can't do it, I just feel like there are too many variables and if/when the water changes slack it could hurt the growth and you would be left with undesirable inhabitants...

Again, this is just my feeling and I am trying to guide you here... I want you to enjoy the fish and the hobby... You could be looking at a year and a half plus of grow out to max potential...

I equate it to this... I am in the HVAC business, there is a lot of competition, and my company does hiogh quality work, we are not the cheapest guys at all. I see many customers try to get our work for a cheaper price or work around it and what often happens is their work around comes back to bite them and they are calling me to fix or re-do work. Then they are left absorbing the original cost and taking on a whole new expense. I don't want to see this happen to you, where you invest $ the fish don't grow and then you are back to square one...

[dataz722]

I think I have actually come up with a way to speed everything up drastically, and really think I could commit to it for a few months, but knowing the way I am I don't know if I could keep it up for a year or more. It is really a shame because I think I would love discus, but might have to go with something different for now.

One last question. From what I am reading, keeping just two would be fine. It is just when you get more than 2 but less than 6 that there seems to be a problem with aggression. Is that correct? If so, I could swing getting 2 large ones and then just a bunch of other less demanding and inexpensive tank mates. That might be the best compromise at this point.

And I have always been a big proponent of doing something right the first time, even if it means a much greater expense. This is also why there are many different things I want to get and/or do but just can't afford to do them the way I want. Same reason why I don't have a salt tank anymore. I loved the one I had before, but tried to do it as cheaply as possible and really ended up regretting it. I won't have another until I have the space and funds to do it how I truly want to.

I really appreciate all of the guidance.

[Phillydubs]

Unless you have a proven mated pair then having 2 only will not work... They prefer to be in groups regardless, two that mate will be fine for the most part... If you get two and they are the same sex or not interested in mating, one will most likely always pick on the other and cause you problems...

[modealings]

How about a drip system? Probably still have to do daily poop suctioning but it seems like some people get it to work.

[rickztahone]

There are a few members that use a drip system. They aren't too beginner friendly but it can be done. Joey recently did a video on an updated version of his drip system if you would like to check that out:


https://youtu.be/LimJJasPUlo

[dataz722]

Unfortunately with the layout of the house a drip system is not really feasible. I have done them before on a different tank in a different house though and they really are great, but it just wouldn't work now.

For now though it looks like keeping discus is just not going to work for me. I really do appreciate everyone's help and advice though and hopefully someday the situation will change.

[Akili]

dataz722 before you give up completely on Discus and I hope you do not. Read this perhaps you will be able to find a happy medium. http://www.myaquariumclub.com/discus-keeping-for-beginners-103171.html