Water Changing Woes - Input Please

[Dave-UK]

Hi all,

As part of my Engineering Design degree I'm doing a project which is aimed at innovation of some sort. In thinking about a topic I thought about my daily activities and where there are inefficiencies and general issues...I came up with water changes.

I'm just scoping the problem now and getting a good view of the whole picture, so I would like some input from yourselves as to what problems you have with water changes. It is important to state what the issues are and if there are any particular scenarios that influence you e.g. your state/county has a law of water waste or supply, you are in a building complex where changing water is difficult etc. all of this key information is important.

As an example, when looking at my method - I remove water using a siphon and extract it into 25L containers, which once full are carried through 3 rooms and then tipped into a sink. The fresh water is moved from the sink into a large container which houses a pump, moving the water to that container is done using buckets so there's a lot of running around when I do water changes. It's therefore a bit of a chore and not what you need after a 12 hour shift!

I'd be interested to hear what problems others have, and any external restrictions which I've not considered myself.

PS. I'm trying not to solution anything just yet, I'm just gathering problem statements and information to inform a set of user requirements which will lead to a solution phase.

Essay over - thank you! ;)

[Filip]

I use siphons also , but without carrying buckets around.
One siphon drains the water directly to my toilet via gravitation , and other siphon fills up the tank straight from tap.
I plan on including ageing barell in my WC system some day, but the proces will still remain the same , without buckets and fitness cardio-training. :)
8 min. Draining 40 gallons , and another 12 min filling .
Total 20 min. Observation from my sofa.

[Dave-UK]

Thanks Filip. When filling what kind of hose do you use?
I take it you also dose the tank with a dechlorinator, does it not stress your fish doing it that way? I know a lot of people add direct to the tank but I find when I fill water into buckets it usually takes a good 5-10 mins for it to stop fizzing and clear at which point I assume the dechlorinator has does it's magic. So there's a period of 5-10 mins in the tank where the water is sub-optimal

[John_Nicholson]

I have all of my tanks drilled and pumped. Change 50%+ of the water in 20 75 gallon tanks every night. Including siphoning it took me roughly 45 minutes last night. That is my norm and not a new land speed record.

-john

[Cosmo]

My tank are drilled and plumbed as well.I used a python gravel cleaning tube attached to a 5/8ths hose that is plumbed into the wall and empties in a basement drain, and, I have a ball valve controled drain in the tank upstairs as well. I use a product moving diaphram pump to pump the water from the storage tanks in the basement up to the tank with the on/off switch in the cabinet under the tank and an auto shutoff circuit that kills the pump once the water reaches the set heigth. I use a mix of 60% tap and 40% RO and add Prime, and Kh and Gh (as needed) into the storage tanks, not the fish tank.

My main problem is that sometimes my auto shutoff switch fails to shut off the fill pump so I have to replace the float switch.

My direct involvment in the actual WC is maybe 15/20 min including bottom cleaning.

[ericNH]

I use a 55 gallon aging barrel which I fill with a garden hose that runs from my boiler room. I use a 700 gph pump to move old tank water out of the tank and also to move new water from the aging barrel into the tank. It takes me about 20 minutes to do my 50% wc, including raking the sand.

The problems I have with my particular setup are minor and almost allcould be alleviated by drilling the tank and plumbing it. To be more specific:

when I pump water back into the tank I need to clamp the end of the hose to the rim of the tank to keep it from flopping out and spraying water everywhere.
when I pump water out of the tank I need to secure the end of the hose out the window to keep it from flopping out and spaying water everywhere
when I move the pump from the tank to the aging barrel the hose and pump are wet which always causes some dripping on the floor while I transfer
moving the pump from the tank to the aging barrel contaminates my newly aged water with old tank water. these trace contaminants build up over time and force me to wash out and scrub my aging barrel more often
i risk overflowing the aging barrel if i leave it unattended while refilling it.



I hope that's useful. I'd be interested in seeing what solutions you might engineer, so I'll be following this thread. tfs.

[Filip]

Thanks Filip. When filling what kind of hose do you use?
I take it you also dose the tank with a dechlorinator, does it not stress your fish doing it that way? I know a lot of people add direct to the tank but I find when I fill water into buckets it usually takes a good 5-10 mins for it to stop fizzing and clear at which point I assume the dechlorinator has does it's magic. So there's a period of 5-10 mins in the tank where the water is sub-optimal

1. I use garden PVC flexible hoses.

2. I use sechem safe powder as a dechlorinator , put directly in tank prior filling the new water.

3. Micro bubbles and fizzling are big problem for discus fish . I alleviate them with prefilter floss and micronsock attached to the end of my filling hose .It does the trick of outgassing but there are still some left in water once I'm finished filling. PH swings are also important to consider.

4. Yes i have a suboptimal conditions and my fish are dormant and stressed for about 20-30 minutesafter Wc.
That's why I consider introducing ageing barell to my WCs sistem as a longterm solution to this problems of sudden pH, KH swings and microbubbling.

[Dave-UK]

I have all of my tanks drilled and pumped. Change 50%+ of the water in 20 75 gallon tanks every night. Including siphoning it took me roughly 45 minutes last night. That is my norm and not a new land speed record.

-john

Do you find that any part of that process isn't very good, e.g. getting the siphoned water out of tanks and into waste streams, initiating the filling or conditioning the fresh water?


My tank are drilled and plumbed as well.I used a python gravel cleaning tube attached to a 5/8ths hose that is plumbed into the wall and empties in a basement drain, and, I have a ball valve controled drain in the tank upstairs as well. I use a product moving diaphram pump to pump the water from the storage tanks in the basement up to the tank with the on/off switch in the cabinet under the tank and an auto shutoff circuit that kills the pump once the water reaches the set heigth. I use a mix of 60% tap and 40% RO and add Prime, and Kh and Gh (as needed) into the storage tanks, not the fish tank.

My main problem is that sometimes my auto shutoff switch fails to shut off the fill pump so I have to replace the float switch.

My direct involvment in the actual WC is maybe 15/20 min including bottom cleaning.

Sounds like you have a pretty good means of replacing the water there. I'm trying not to solution anything yet but automation seems to be the best method for improvement which is the route you've taken for filling at least.


I use a 55 gallon aging barrel which I fill with a garden hose that runs from my boiler room. I use a 700 gph pump to move old tank water out of the tank and also to move new water from the aging barrel into the tank. It takes me about 20 minutes to do my 50% wc, including raking the sand.

The problems I have with my particular setup are minor and almost allcould be alleviated by drilling the tank and plumbing it. To be more specific:

when I pump water back into the tank I need to clamp the end of the hose to the rim of the tank to keep it from flopping out and spraying water everywhere.
when I pump water out of the tank I need to secure the end of the hose out the window to keep it from flopping out and spaying water everywhere
when I move the pump from the tank to the aging barrel the hose and pump are wet which always causes some dripping on the floor while I transfer
moving the pump from the tank to the aging barrel contaminates my newly aged water with old tank water. these trace contaminants build up over time and force me to wash out and scrub my aging barrel more often
i risk overflowing the aging barrel if i leave it unattended while refilling it.



I hope that's useful. I'd be interested in seeing what solutions you might engineer, so I'll be following this thread. tfs.

Thanks for that, the issues you highlight are very useful and ones I can relate to also. I will try and keep as much of what I'm doing in this thread, however I suspect the topic will change somewhat over time so I may start new ones further down the line.


1. I use garden PVC flexible hoses.

2. I use sechem safe powder as a dechlorinator , put directly in tank prior filling the new water.

3. Micro bubbles and fizzling are big problem for discus fish . I alleviate them with prefilter floss and micronsock attached to the end of my filling hose .It does the trick of outgassing but there are still some left in water once I'm finished filling. PH swings are also important to consider.

4. Yes i have a suboptimal conditions and my fish are dormant and stressed for about 20-30 minutesafter Wc.
That's why I consider introducing ageing barell to my WCs sistem as a longterm solution to this problems of sudden pH, KH swings and microbubbling.

Not that I've looked into it much but it makes sense that micro-bubbles can be an issue to any aquatic creature with gills. Thank you for your input again

[farebox]

WC routine for 125G & 55G tanks, siphon bottom of tanks with 10'- 5/8" hose that empties into an wheeled 20G Brute trash can, then hook to side of tank with an Jehmco's gravity feed siphon pipe that drains into bathroom sink. Wipe tank down, start refilling from the tap, using an Python faucet connector. I mix my water with RO/DI water from 32G Brute trash can that's been heated and aerated. Add Seachem's Safe directly into tank. I have an Mag5 water pump the will drain the water from the wheeled trash can out thru the patio door into the backyard. Never really timed how long it takes, I just do the WC's to keep my crew all happy and healthy, since fully retired after 21 yrs in the USAF and an bus operator for 19 yrs, 67 yrs of age, I have nothing but time to do the chore of discus keeping to the up most......

[John_Nicholson]

No. I have built several fish rooms and on e fish house. Not much I would change in my current system. There is a video on here somewhere showing it.

-john

[Dave-UK]

WC routine for 125G & 55G tanks, siphon bottom of tanks with 10'- 5/8" hose that empties into an wheeled 20G Brute trash can, then hook to side of tank with an Jehmco's gravity feed siphon pipe that drains into bathroom sink. Wipe tank down, start refilling from the tap, using an Python faucet connector. I mix my water with RO/DI water from 32G Brute trash can that's been heated and aerated. Add Seachem's Safe directly into tank. I have an Mag5 water pump the will drain the water from the wheeled trash can out thru the patio door into the backyard. Never really timed how long it takes, I just do the WC's to keep my crew all happy and healthy, since fully retired after 21 yrs in the USAF and an bus operator for 19 yrs, 67 yrs of age, I have nothing but time to do the chore of discus keeping to the up most......

I think we all wish we had that kind of time! :o I would say this (simplydiscus) community seems to be full of people who genuinely enjoy cleaning their tanks, which is probably unusual compared to many other species-keepers


No. I have built several fish rooms and on e fish house. Not much I would change in my current system. There is a video on here somewhere showing it.

-john

Thanks John, I'll see if I can find it as I might use if for future reference

[Dave-UK]

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?97801-Fish-House-Video&highlight=fish+house

I think this is the one you mean. Looks very impressive. I don't think the focus of my project will be for this kind of setup, it's likely to be aimed at the more mainstream keepers. I am now wishing I had drilled my tank before setting up!

[Dave-UK]

Just in case anyone is wondering I've not forgotten about this. I've been working on an assignment, writing up some user requirements and exploring creative thinking and concept designs :book: